Richmond Premiership Circle

[MackTiger]

Let me create a couple of scenario’s for you that is entirely realistic IMO.

Imagine if we go back to back and sign up another 15,000 members next year. And everyone in the higher end categories such as Premiership Circle, 3121, etc, renew and they are sold out. The club will then create a waiting list (I'm sure there already is one). Now imagine if you were on that waiting list in 2019, but went to every game on a lower category of membership, only to miss out on a GF ticket. while many with Premiership Circle, 3121, etc, goes to minimal games all year and goes to the GF. Is that fair?

Also, imagine if we go on to create a dynasty and win multiple flags. Could we have 150,000 members in 5 years? By this stage people would be getting locked out of the ground at home games, let alone the reserved seating areas... and the club has no choice to cap member numbers (which is what I believe they do at the eagles). Can you imagine the reaction of supporters that get locked out of games, despite thousands still not tuning up to games because their attitude is “I have to the right to this seat because I have paid for it, therefore I can leave it empty if I chose to do so.”

Imagine you were on a waiting list for PC in 2017 and the club offered Rioli Memberships before the completion of the St Kilda Game to those not on the wait list for PC but for Rioli Social Club. And all you wanted PC for was the GF Guarantee

GF Guarantees should be a separate membership entirely, it would sort the memberships out perfectly.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

Let me create a couple of scenario’s for you that is entirely realistic IMO.

Imagine if we go back to back and sign up another 15,000 members next year. And everyone in the higher end categories such as Premiership Circle, 3121, etc, renew and they are sold out. The club will then create a waiting list (I'm sure there already is one). Now imagine if you were on that waiting list in 2019, but went to every game on a lower category of membership, only to miss out on a GF ticket. while many with Premiership Circle, 3121, etc, goes to minimal games all year and goes to the GF. Is that fair?

Also, imagine if we go on to create a dynasty and win multiple flags. Could we have 150,000 members in 5 years? By this stage people would be getting locked out of the ground at home games, let alone the reserved seating areas... and the club has no choice to cap member numbers (which is what I believe they do at the eagles). Can you imagine the reaction of supporters that get locked out of games, despite thousands still not tuning up to games because their attitude is “I have to the right to this seat because I have paid for it, therefore I can leave it empty if I chose to do so.”

This is why we need more flexible reserved seating. As I said, it is the way of the future.

What would be fair is if we make the GF again, all those who missed out in last year's ballot get priority this year. But I'm not holding my breath.

Yeah there are pressures and the MCG's not big enough to hold all of us. It's a question of how the club handles it. They could set up a compulsory, cost-free "opt in" system for reserved seat holders to indicate their forthcoming attendance if unused seats was actually the problem. But it appears to be all about squeezing more $$ out of the existing seats.

 

[Ian4]

Imagine you were on a waiting list for PC in 2017 and the club offered Rioli Memberships before the completion of the St Kilda Game to those not on the wait list for PC but for Rioli Social Club. And all you wanted PC for was the GF Guarantee

GF Guarantees should be a separate membership entirely, it would sort the memberships out perfectly.

wow, I didn't know that.

What would be fair is if we make the GF again, all those who missed out in last year's ballot get priority this year. But I'm not holding my breath.

Agree. I remember complaints from Hawthorn fans when they made all those consecutive grand finals. some were successful for all of them and some were unsuccessful for all of them.

another option for those who do not have a GF guarantee, is to give priority for those who attend the most games. a gold member who went to 16 games should arguably receive priority over a gold member who attended 4 games. I know people who live interstate/overseas wont like this, but that's why people like Baloo go the MRC option.

 

[UntamedTiger]

Let me create a couple of scenario’s for you that is entirely realistic IMO.

Imagine if we go back to back and sign up another 15,000 members next year. And everyone in the higher end categories such as Premiership Circle, 3121, etc, renew and they are sold out. The club will then create a waiting list (I'm sure there already is one). Now imagine if you were on that waiting list in 2019, but went to every game on a lower category of membership, only to miss out on a GF ticket. while many with Premiership Circle, 3121, etc, goes to minimal games all year and goes to the GF. Is that fair?

Also, imagine if we go on to create a dynasty and win multiple flags. Could we have 150,000 members in 5 years? By this stage people would be getting locked out of the ground at home games, let alone the reserved seating areas... and the club has no choice to cap member numbers (which is what I believe they do at the eagles). Can you imagine the reaction of supporters that get locked out of games, despite thousands still not tuning up to games because their attitude is “I have to the right to this seat because I have paid for it, therefore I can leave it empty if I chose to do so.”

This is why we need more flexible reserved seating. As I said, it is the way of the future.

Imagine you have 2 kids that play sport. One Saturday afternoon basketball, the other plays footy Sunday afternoon. With this year's fixture, supporting my kids, meant we could not attend at least 5 games. Should I be penalised because my family of members have conflicting events?

The question that needs to be answered has not. What happens in the Marquee games, when everyone turns up? We all know the 55% show rate is drivel for these games.

 

[Tiger Pops]

good point.

There must have been better solutions to get these unused seats utilised. I would have thought this was one of a few other options and the consultation would have been SO much better than it was ! I have been to 5 corprate boxes this year and the 2 home games I sold back my tickets. There would/should have been better option to appease the loyal members and deal within maximising underutiliszed seats.

All for its a new era with a new set of challenges to cater for a bigger base, im OK with change, its how this change was executed that stink!

 

[Legends of 2017]

This might be a stupid question but, cant the club get seats from other areas of the ground? The G is a bloody big ground. Or are they just after the prime viewing areas?

 

[Mr Brightside]

I understand both sides of the predicament, however if and understandably Premiership Circle members are upset about losing there reserve seats, isn’t the seating system changing to the same as 3121 uses ? If it is that should still allow people to sit together, as ToO has pointed out we sit with a group of 2 to 15 and the majority of the time we get to sit together, the thing is every seat in the area is fantastic for viewing and entertainment, we have the luxury of been able to sit at the front , back , middle , plenty of options, imho this system works great and as disappointing as it is to lose a room in the 3121 and we all be packed in a little tighter I understand there is no way the club can keep us all 100% happy.

As frustrating as it must be for some of us, I think at the end of the day we all love the fact we are part of the most powerful club in the land again

 

[Baloo]

Would it make sense for the club to have a seperate GF guarantee system. Allocated guarantees and a waiting list totally separate from any other membership package. To make it more appealing, members can buy/sell their allocation or spot on the waiting list at prevailing market rates. Club can take a 10% admin charge on any transaction.

i.e. Say I have 3. It turns out the kids don't care anymore so I have the option to sell 2 GF Guarantees at whatever price people are prepared to pay. Or I just keep them and let friends use them. But it's my call.

 

[Tigermad2005]

The social club membership gives you only acces to a grand final ticket nothing else.

 

[Baloo]

The social club membership gives you only acces to a grand final ticket nothing else.

But you can only get a social club membership if you already have a matchday membership.

 

[MackTiger]

Agree.

There should be your membership categories - i.e general, home, away, coterie, reserved seat, interstate etc

Then there should be a GF guarantee category.

The fact is, take away the GF guarantee, how many of those membership types would remain full. I know several people that have a PC ticket with reserved seat but sit near the cheer squad, they were able to do this as were on a waiting list and as Rioli was full the only way they knew to get a guarantee.

Ian4 - Yeah it happened. Last year at the St Kilda game friends got a text from RFC saying there were limited Rioli Memberships available and to get in quick. Apparently there were 150 or so (not sure of the price). This was fun, as we were sitting with someone who was on the waitlist for both PC and 3121 - but was not offered the Rioli.

To me it makes sense to separate - transfer all membership types with that entitlement to a GF Guarantee Group and it costs $x per year. To stay in the group, you must purchase a membership (no restriction) and other conditions - who knows (attend x number of games whatever.........)

Rioli just becomes the social club, entry to ME Centre pre and post game.

I remember for a number of years I paid a cash / non refundable amount before moving to memberships with the guarantee. I also purchased a social club membership that got me upstairs after the game. when i didnt pay the social club, I just went to punt road but only stayed downstairs - this worked perfectly.

Plenty to think about membership department, gonna get harder before it gets easier.

It would be easier to merge 3121 and Premiership Circle into one new membership type - call it Punt Road End (give the PRE owners some royalties)

- All general seating area with N1 to N13 with two bays for reserved seating) Execs get 14 and 15 before AFL members
- Ability to buy guest passes and hand back membership for that week for cashback
- Access to 3 rooms (Medalist Bar, Hasset, Ryder) - Miller goes to Execs
- Social Club
- Away games general admission
- Grand Final Guarantee Group
- Photo ID on Memberships so they cant be passed back to bring people (non guest passes) as will generally be at capacity.

Essentially - Premiership Circle becomes 3121 due to loss of reserve seating but picks up some additional elements - all memberships are fixed price

Just my two cents.

 

[UntamedTiger]

Agree.

There should be your membership categories - i.e general, home, away, coterie, reserved seat, interstate etc

Then there should be a GF guarantee category.

The fact is, take away the GF guarantee, how many of those membership types would remain full. I know several people that have a PC ticket with reserved seat but sit near the cheer squad, they were able to do this as were on a waiting list and as Rioli was full the only way they knew to get a guarantee.

Ian4 - Yeah it happened. Last year at the St Kilda game friends got a text from RFC saying there were limited Rioli Memberships available and to get in quick. Apparently there were 150 or so (not sure of the price). This was fun, as we were sitting with someone who was on the waitlist for both PC and 3121 - but was not offered the Rioli.

To me it makes sense to separate - transfer all membership types with that entitlement to a GF Guarantee Group and it costs $x per year. To stay in the group, you must purchase a membership (no restriction) and other conditions - who knows (attend x number of games whatever.........)

Rioli just becomes the social club, entry to ME Centre pre and post game.

I remember for a number of years I paid a cash / non refundable amount before moving to memberships with the guarantee. I also purchased a social club membership that got me upstairs after the game. when i didnt pay the social club, I just went to punt road but only stayed downstairs - this worked perfectly.

Plenty to think about membership department, gonna get harder before it gets easier.

It would be easier to merge 3121 and Premiership Circle into one new membership type - call it Punt Road End (give the PRE owners some royalties)

- All general seating area with N1 to N13 with two bays for reserved seating) Execs get 14 and 15 before AFL members
- Ability to buy guest passes and hand back membership for that week for cashback
- Access to 3 rooms (Medalist Bar, Hasset, Ryder) - Miller goes to Execs
- Social Club
- Away games general admission
- Grand Final Guarantee Group
- Photo ID on Memberships so they cant be passed back to bring people (non guest passes) as will generally be at capacity.

Essentially - Premiership Circle becomes 3121 due to loss of reserve seating but picks up some additional elements - all memberships are fixed price

Just my two cents.

They wouldn't consider it. Make too much sense. ;D

 

[joegarra]

One issue that hasn't been explained is why bays N were chosen to make room for the coterie group. I totally understand that the coterie group needed a permanent home, but why did they pick one of the oldest seating areas. The fairer way would be to scrap all reserved seats and make them all reserved bays, or find space in the newest reserved seat area. It was significant that there was no mention of the coterie group in the information to PC members! Only in the info to 3121 explaining why they had to shuffle across. I'm still not convinced by the club that we will all fit in 66% of the space when some games were 75% or more. There stats are dodgy. I was told that I didn't attend all home games according to their stats! I was definitely at the St Kilda game. I explained it was probably the one time I entered through the MCC because the queues were much shorter and just flashed my card to get to the seat. What is upsetting to members who have had seats for over 20 years is that they keep quoting stats, rather than the emotion involved. Country members, members with disabilities or large groups of friends will be the most affected.

 

[Odduna]

Re: Richmond Premiership Circle / 3121 / Southern Stand Reserved Seating

Please don't shoot the messenger, some observations/findings in the lead up to the Forum tomorrow night.

Essentially what I have learned.

...

Specific Questions asked as part of group feedback from PC to RFC

...


7. Can you confirm both Premiership Circle (Southern Stand) and 3121 are at Capacity - i.e each ticket for the areas (reserved for PC and general for 3121)

Response : Yes with a long waiting list for new members

8. So if fully at capacity and I can't see the MCG building more seats how does it work if all paid up members turn up

Response : We base on the attendance rates. 55% of members don't attend.

9. But if they all turn up - then what

Nil Response

10. So if everyone actually turns up, you may not be able to get a seat or do you have a number of additional seats that are not actually sold (i.e Guest Passes)

Response : Would have to check.

Firstly, I must point out that I am Ponsford Premiership Circle member (subject to the reserve Bay concept already).

Effectively, I see the above issues in the quote as the main problems.

RFC are charging a premium price for what is portrayed as 'reserve tickets' but are in fact will become a form of 'general admission subject to capacity tickets'.

To me the product is misleading the consumers. There is nothing 'reserved' to it - if they issue too many tickets to the area, everyone turns up. I can't get a seat. And in fact might get turned away by MCC staff.

Situation is akin to overbooking like a US airline.

Wonder what Consumer Affairs thinks of the situation...

Ps i have not bothered turning up to one game this year because of the change to reserve bays concept in 2018 - got caught late at work, and decided not worth the hassle.

 

[Platinum member]

Let me create a couple of scenario’s for you that is entirely realistic IMO.

Imagine if we go back to back and sign up another 15,000 members next year. And everyone in the higher end categories such as Premiership Circle, 3121, etc, renew and they are sold out. The club will then create a waiting list (I'm sure there already is one). Now imagine if you were on that waiting list in 2019, but went to every game on a lower category of membership, only to miss out on a GF ticket. while many with Premiership Circle, 3121, etc, goes to minimal games all year and goes to the GF. Is that fair?

Also, imagine if we go on to create a dynasty and win multiple flags. Could we have 150,000 members in 5 years? By this stage people would be getting locked out of the ground at home games, let alone the reserved seating areas... and the club has no choice to cap member numbers (which is what I believe they do at the eagles). Can you imagine the reaction of supporters that get locked out of games, despite thousands still not tuning up to games because their attitude is “I have to the right to this seat because I have paid for it, therefore I can leave it empty if I chose to do so.”

This is why we need more flexible reserved seating. As I said, it is the way of the future.

My thing is though... let’s use 3121... literally anyone could have purchased it in 2016... why didn’t they? We both know why

So the people that chose not to when we were rubbish, in my opinion can’t sook now cos they want it when we are good.

 

[kiwitiger]

My thing is though... let’s use 3121... literally anyone could have purchased it in 2016... why didn’t they? We both know why

So the people that chose not to when we were rubbish, in my opinion can’t sooo now cos they want it when we are good.

I did it in reverse , had it for years when we were rubbish ,

Let it go when my mcc membership came in last year , couldn’t afford both ,

My mcc membership is provisional not full , no gf access yet

Feel a bit ripped off , all my own doing though not blaming , but will be disappointing gf day if we are there .

 

[Platinum member]

I did it in reverse , had it for years when we were rubbish ,

Let it go when my mcc membership came in last year , couldn’t afford both ,

My mcc membership is provisional not full , no gf access yet

Feel a bit ripped off , all my own doing though not blaming , but will be disappointing gf day if we are there .

My mcc actually came in this month funnily enough... will definitely be keeping 3121 while just provisional.. especially in this era we are in

 

[Ian4]

Imagine you have 2 kids that play sport. One Saturday afternoon basketball, the other plays footy Sunday afternoon. With this year's fixture, supporting my kids, meant we could not attend at least 5 games. Should I be penalised because my family of members have conflicting events?

so that gives you a right to keep your seats empty and denying others a seat? and have you ever used the seat buy back scheme?

Ian4 - Yeah it happened. Last year at the St Kilda game friends got a text from RFC saying there were limited Rioli Memberships available and to get in quick. Apparently there were 150 or so (not sure of the price). This was fun, as we were sitting with someone who was on the waitlist for both PC and 3121 - but was not offered the Rioli.

I was aware of it. I was one of the 150 or so who took advantage of it. I received the text in early august. But I wasn't aware there was a waiting list at the time. doesn't seem right at all.

My thing is though... let’s use 3121... literally anyone could have purchased it in 2016... why didn’t they? We both know why

So the people that chose not to when we were rubbish, in my opinion can’t sook now cos they want it when we are good.

yep, I was one of them. I was in the PC for about 10 years and gave it away after 2016.

 

[22nd Man]

What is the club trying to fix? It sounds like the issue is brought about because some membership tiers have a grand final guarantee and some don't. If new Richmond Exec, 3121, Premiership Circle, MRC memberships didn't come with e GF guarantee, would we still have the same issue?

I guess I'm trying to work out if we really do have that many people who want to attend games that's pushing the lower memberships out, or whether it's just the GF that people are looking for. Two different issues which seem to be intermingled.

GF guarantee or in finance terminology an option on an GF would have to be big part of these packages even if the pricing is not transparent.
I see poppa X has paid 30k over 20'years for 4 seats. That works out at under 400 per seat pa. as standard membership is 200 approx. add a reserved seat say 10 a game so 100 in round numbers. Are there any party pies and scones in these packages? I'll assume no. Leaves the GF component as 100. That to me is a cheap option.

If Richmond said to me you can add a GF guarantee to your membership I would jump at it.

This would save me money as my "option" on a GF ticket is my Gold AFl membership. At 6Oo per annum I am way down over 28 years. i don't need AFL membership for access each week as my std RFC membership gets me into all games I want to go or I can pay at gate 25 bucks.

I also have restricted MCC membership but that won't get me to a GF for another 15 years so I am paying 1500 pa for no resrveed seats and one almost guaranteed GF seat and a chance at another through the ballot. As a 43 year member I get no preference over a 1 year member. Should I?

On cold economic rational grounds supporters of all clubs would be better off not paying for guaranteed GF seats but putting cash aside every year and when their team make the granny buying one of the packages fir 1500, 2000. 37 years X 100 would have got 2 such tickets.only issue is supply of these premium legally scalped seats.

 

[kiwitiger]

My mcc actually came in this month funnily enough... will definitely be keeping 3121 while just provisional.. especially in this era we are in

Richmond has an mcc membership, which still allows you to be a club member , scarf or cap etc , access to finals tickets ( not gf ) think it was $80 , I went for that ,

Kinda spewing a bit now though I didn’t go a bit further .