Round 4: the root canal games.

[ToraToraTora]

You can tell the AFL and its media is jammed with white-collar jerks who've never set foot on a manual labour job site in their lives. They'd be a wailing mess within two minutes after hearing the profanities fly.

So the AFL, a billion $ entertainment industry, with societal influence over people from all walks of life, ages, religions etc, should conduct itself like a construction site? Make no mistake that's essentially what you are saying. Ask yourself who lets the "offensive" language fly on the building site? And why? I proffer it's for the same reasons as everywhere else. Insecure men looking for peer validation ha ha ha good one Dave. To me, it's always led back to there. It's not as if we are inherently racist or homophobic as a society. It's that we are a boys club. Goes right to the top. And one organization is doing something about it, or forced to do something about it, or whatever, and this is 'bad". Why is it bad? Why is it bad that one individual or group of individuals doesn't have to put up with slurs in the workplace? So bad.

 

[DavidSSS]

It is all about context.

Homosexuals have been discriminated against for a very long time. Abusing them by using terms like the one Finlayson used reinforces the prejudice and makes it harder to remove the prejudice.

There is a reason no AFL player has ever come out as gay, and this sort of behaviour means it is less likely.

DS

 

[Willo]

It is all about context.

Homosexuals have been discriminated against for a very long time. Abusing them by using terms like the one Finlayson used reinforces the prejudice and makes it harder to remove the prejudice.

There is a reason no AFL player has ever come out as gay, and this sort of behaviour means it is less likely.

DS

I’m in full agreement.
But I query one thing.
I’m sure the likes of Ian Robert’s (NRL) Isaac Humphris (NBL) and Josh Cavallo (NSL) all copped some stick for their sexual orientation.
Why would an afl player be any different? Or is it because he would be the first gay player to come out?

I can understand the reluctance of an individual, it wouldn’t be easy to do. Maybe if there were a pair it would be easier on them. Gay pride. Then it’s out there. Does anyone think the longer it goes on the harder it becomes for a player/s to come out? Once it’s out does it become easier for the next one and then becomes more “acceptable/accepted” (not sure if that’s the right wordimg)
I know it’s a little bit of being the Devils advocate, but it’s just got me thinking (out loud).
I appreciate it would be bloody hard. Life changing in many ways.

 

[MD Jazz]

Get over yourself. Where have I said I enjoy derogatory slurs? It was tongue in cheek. Then you want to make it something else.

Some of you *smile* wits make me laugh. You quote my post then ad lib whatever you want, tell straight out lies as if that had anything to do with what I actually wrote in my posts.

I didn’t mention a fag or a coon. You’re both full of *smile* and a flat out liar. DO NOT quote my post and make out that I said that.

And you’re being a complete c o c k head. You proved it all by yourself. Well done you. I read it & called it..that must make me a champion of the world, by all accounts. Tosser.

Own your *smile*.

You said you would be suspended and fined if you played AFL - how else should that be interpreted than you would happily use slurs - you don't get fined otherwise? Tongue in cheek? Hilarious.

You then added, you call it as you see it, you have a god given right to speak your mind - how else should they be interpreted than that you are happy to use derogatory slurs if you feel they are appropriate? Or you would use them but not really mean them (cause you're a stand up guy?) and people should have thicker skin? Even though those slurs have been used historically to demean/belittle/vilify/intimidate?

And I'm the c o c k h e a d ?

Write it and own it.

 

[Quickdraw]

But wouldn't that be a hurtful insult to people with dodgy bladders n prostates?

having just had prostate surgery I can say YES!

 

[Willo]

Own your *smile*.

I own what I write. Not what someone says are my words when clearly they weren’t

You said you would be suspended and fined if you played AFL - how else should that be interpreted than you would happily use slurs - you don't get fined otherwise? Tongue in cheek? Hilarious.

Yes you dope. Did the mention of being fined $millions and suspended for years give it away? Did that seem like reality to you? Yeah hilarious you thought it was fact. Talk about gullible.

Happily use slurs? Your words, your interpretation

You then added, you call it as you see it, you have a god given right to speak your mind -

Where did I say I had a god given right to speak my mind? Another of your lies

how else should they be interpreted than that you are happy to use derogatory slurs if you feel they are appropriate?

So you can interpret that I’m happy to use derogatory slurs from that? You’re wasted here on PRE. You should get a job at the UN. You can interpret, know what people think, what they mean, read in between lines. You’re a *smile* marvel

Or you would use them but not really mean them (cause you're a stand up guy?) and people should have thicker skin? Even though those slurs have been used historically to demean/belittle/vilify/intimidate?

Ah glass houses. I don’t need to self promote that I’m a standup guy. Yes, people can have a thicker skin at times. No Doubt about that. But sometimes a thick skin doesn’t always cut it. One size doesn’t fit all, all of the time.

And I'm the c o c k h e a d ?

Yep, probably the king of them

Write it and own it.

I have and do. I just don’t need you to write lies when you quote my posts. Write your own thoughts without slandering me just to suit your own agenda.

 

[MD Jazz]

Where did I say I had a god given right to speak my mind? Another of your lies

Geez I’m glad I don’t play afl.
Those pricks would have hung, drawn and quartered me 30 times. Suspended me for 400 games and fined me several $million.
Just because I call it as I see it. Just because I believe I have a god given right to speak my mind. It’s my religious belief to speak openly and honestly without fear or favour.
I’ve been bullied and harassed and its affected my mental health!
I thought there were laws against bullying, harassment and mental assault. The afl can gagf.

I must be missing something. Are you referring to someone else, talking in 3rd person, quoting what someone else said? Or trying to be funny?

You later referenced being bullied, I assumed you are writing the above from your own perspective?

I'm confused.

 

[Willo]

Geez I’m glad I don’t play afl.
Those pricks would have hung, drawn and quartered me 30 times. Suspended me for 400 games and fined me several $million.

Obviously I was being serious

Just because I call it as I see it. Just because I believe I have a god given right to speak my mind.

Why not.

It’s my religious belief to speak openly and honestly without fear or favour.
I’ve been bullied and harassed and its affected my mental health!

Obviously I’m being serious

I thought there were laws against bullying, harassment and mental assault. The afl can gagf.

Obviously I’m being serious

I must be missing something. Are you referring to someone else, talking in 3rd person, quoting what someone else said? Or trying to be funny?

Why do you think I owe you an explanation. You were just trying your level best to make me out to be something you fixated on. That and the quoting my post and saying I said a coon’s a coon. A fag is a fag. When I never mentioned those words at all.
I might be a lot of things nut one thing I don’t do is quote someone’s post then make up lies they didn’t say and attest it to them.
That is pathetic and slanderous. I own what I write. But I won’t be part of someone else’s barefaced lies they spin to make their own narrative.

You later referenced being bullied, I assumed you are writing the above from your own perspective?

You can assume whatever you like

I'm confused.

No *smile*. Probably why you write lies and blame someone else for you writing them and make it part of your assumptions

Now go play in your sandpit.

 

[DavidSSS]

Given how no AFL players have come out, and we can be sure there are a fair number of gay players in the men's game, it would be hard to be the first.

So, I reckon the best thing would be if no-one is the first, if a group come out all at once. This group must have at least one very prominent star player. Ultimately this is up to the players themselves, but it would be good if some gay players got organised and all came out in one go.

DS

 

[TigerForce]

Given how no AFL players have come out, and we can be sure there are a fair number of gay players in the men's game, it would be hard to be the first.

So, I reckon the best thing would be if no-one is the first, if a group come out all at once. This group must have at least one very prominent star player. Ultimately this is up to the players themselves, but it would be good if some gay players got organised and all came out in one go.

DS

I don't think they need to unless they can't hide from the media. I wonder if the Bummers player was actually gay or did Finlayson just say it off the cuff?

 

[DavidSSS]

I don't think they need to unless they can't hide from the media. I wonder if the Bummers player was actually gay or did Finlayson just say it off the cuff?

Yeah, it is a fair point to ask why should they reveal this? Trouble is there will be speculation and it would be good to get over this hurdle so having gay players is just normal, like it is in the women's.

But, it must remain a choice for the players involved.

DS

 

[Willo]

Given how no AFL players have come out, and we can be sure there are a fair number of gay players in the men's game, it would be hard to be the first.

So, I reckon the best thing would be if no-one is the first, if a group come out all at once. This group must have at least one very prominent star player. Ultimately this is up to the players themselves, but it would be good if some gay players got organised and all came out in one go.

DS

Similar to my thinking. I said if there were a couple of players that did it together. More would be easier on the group than an individual. But whatever, it’s always easier on the outside. It would take a ton of courage, but I’m sure it would be well supported. By family, teammates, their club and the public. It must be stressful and a strain living in fear of someone else ousting you in that sort of environment.

I think once it happened, it would be a big deal at that moment, then become accepted as the norm.
The same as it is generally, in todays society. But it still is a huge call to make for anyone in that position.

 

[MD Jazz]

Obviously I was being serious

Why not.


Obviously I’m being serious

Obviously I’m being serious

Why do you think I owe you an explanation. You were just trying your level best to make me out to be something you fixated on. That and the quoting my post and saying I said a coon’s a coon. A fag is a fag. When I never mentioned those words at all.
I might be a lot of things nut one thing I don’t do is quote someone’s post then make up lies they didn’t say and attest it to them.
That is pathetic and slanderous. I own what I write. But I won’t be part of someone else’s barefaced lies they spin to make their own narrative.

You can assume whatever you like

No *smile*. Probably why you write lies and blame someone else for you writing them and make it part of your assumptions

Now go play in your sandpit.

Cool. I did get it right, you did mean what you wrote.

I extrapolated (didn't say you said it) from what you wrote. You call it as you see it blah blah god given right blah blah and stated if you played AFL you would be in trouble for your words. You are clearly posting that you would/would have used these type of slurs. When you follow that up with I call it as I see it and it's my god given right it's pretty self-explanatory isn't it? Not sure I'm spinning a narrative.

Ironic you bemoan victims

 

[Sintiger]

I don't think they need to unless they can't hide from the media. I wonder if the Bummers player was actually gay or did Finlayson just say it off the cuff?

I just posted on this on the umpire thread so there are a couple of conversations going on. I was wondering if there is more to this than we know because to me the sanction seems excessive if there isn’t.
If the player is gay and finlayson knew it then I probably would have a different view.

 

[Willo]

Cool. I did get it right, you did mean what you wrote.

I extrapolated (didn't say you said it) from what you wrote. You call it as you see it blah blah god given right blah blah and stated if you played AFL you would be in trouble for your words. You are clearly posting that you would/would have used these type of slurs. When you follow that up with I call it as I see it and it's my god given right it's pretty self-explanatory isn't it? Not sure I'm spinning a narrative.

Ironic you bemoan victims

You’re just boring everyone. You’ve had your say, now run along little fella.

 

[Willo]

I just posted on this on the umpire thread so there are a couple of conversations going on. I was wondering if there is more to this than we know because to me the sanction seems excessive if there isn’t.
If the player is gay and finlayson knew it then I probably would have a different view.

Fair point.
I wonder if there is common or some knowledge among afl players if other players are gay?

On a different note, but similar, I remember Akermanis making some comment some time back, maybe when he was with the WB,
*edited* I edited the above, found the article. Not quite what I thought it was. But still has some relevance to the topic of gay players!. But not the Finlayson comment.

AFL great ‘disgusted’ by ex-teammate Jason Akermanis’ comments on gay players

Bulldogs great ‘disgusted’ and ‘hurt’ by ex-teammate Akermanis’ comments on gay players

www.foxsports.com.au

 

[BluesBloke]

So the AFL, a billion $ entertainment industry, with societal influence over people from all walks of life, ages, religions etc, should conduct itself like a construction site? Make no mistake that's essentially what you are saying. Ask yourself who lets the "offensive" language fly on the building site? And why? I proffer it's for the same reasons as everywhere else. Insecure men looking for peer validation ha ha ha good one Dave. To me, it's always led back to there. It's not as if we are inherently racist or homophobic as a society. It's that we are a boys club. Goes right to the top. And one organization is doing something about it, or forced to do something about it, or whatever, and this is 'bad". Why is it bad? Why is it bad that one individual or group of individuals doesn't have to put up with slurs in the workplace? So bad.

Yes, that's exactly what I was saying - the AFL should operate like a construction site. You got me.

 

[Sintiger]

Fair point.
I wonder if there is common or some knowledge among afl players if other players are gay?

On a different note, but similar, I remember Akermanis making some comment some time back, maybe when he was with the WB,
*edited* I edited the above, found the article. Not quite what I thought it was. But still has some relevance to the topic of gay players!. But not the Finlayson comment.

AFL great ‘disgusted’ by ex-teammate Jason Akermanis’ comments on gay players

Bulldogs great ‘disgusted’ and ‘hurt’ by ex-teammate Akermanis’ comments on gay players

www.foxsports.com.au

I don’t know if the players would know or not, they may.

I guess it depends on whether a player is “out” to his teammates but just not publicly. Somehow I doubt it because it would be really hard to avoid the afl rumour mill.

 

[TigerMasochist]

Kinda sad n weird situation where there's gay women in AFLW, Soccer, Cricket etc and nobody bats an eyelid or cares, it's pretty much accepted as the norm. Yet there's been an almost perverse salivation over the prospect of the " first " openly gay male AFL player or NRL player or swimmer, cricketer etc over the last twenty years or so.
One day no doubt some AFL player will make the announcement and there'll be a mad flurry of meedjia attention, then hopefully after a week or so of madness the rest of the world can shrug it's shoulders n move on to the important stuff of is a player any good n is our team gunna win next game.

 

[DavidSSS]

I'm sure a lot of players know fellow players who are gay and know all about it. Funnily enough I suspect the media knows a fair number too but aren't publishing. I say funnily enough because the media don't normally care and go ahead and publish whatever attracts a readership, but this seems to be an issue they won't be their usual uncaring bottom feeders.

Sooner or later some players will come out as gay, maybe the first will be a retired player, and I reckon their team mates will be asked and just shrug as they reply that it was common knowledge amongst team mates.

Likely to be sooner and the quicker this hurdle is cleared the quicker everyone will forget about it.

But, whoever comes out will know that they will get a pile of abuse on social media and in other places and presumably that's why no-one wants to do it.

DS