Apart from a good world cup Eddies Jones has done only an average job.He has kept Gregan past his use by date & didn't bring on the youngsters as he should have particularly on the recent tour.He deserved to get the chop & his reign is insignificant when comparing his performance to Rod McQueen.Tigers of Old said:
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IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.
Rugby Union
- Thread starter Tigerclan
- Start date
Thanks ToO.
I don't recall ever hearing AJ say a positive word about EJ when I lived in Sydney. And when he gets on a theme he's not known for changing his mind either.
Sounds like EJ went with dignity.
I don't recall ever hearing AJ say a positive word about EJ when I lived in Sydney. And when he gets on a theme he's not known for changing his mind either.
Sounds like EJ went with dignity.
Disagree Mb64.mb64 said:
Jones has been a successful coach for the Wallabies before this disastrous tour. I don't dispute his time is up but the team as a whole is in decline.
He finished up with a coaching record of 33 wins, 23 losses and one draw from 57 Tests(a record) in charge since he took over from Macqueen in 2001. have to remember the Wallabies were only a kick away from the World Cup with Jones in command.
If you take the 1-8 away from the recent tour it's a fairly impressive record. Sure Macqueen was an exceptional coach but it's a bit harsh to say Eddie's been average.
*No worries TGN
This could well be a first for me ToO, but I have to disagree with you 
!!!
And agree with Mb64 regarding Eddie Jones being a success as Wallabies coach.
As I understand it the European tour was simply the last straw (England specifically) for the ARU, as there had been multiple problems within Camp Wallaby for a few years before now. Particularly a fued between ARU CEO Gary Flowers and Eddie Jones which erupted in South Africa (where Eddie has never had a victory) earlier this year.
The World Cup was great (and devestating, sitting in the stands, watching that ball go through the uprights) but it was a stand alone result. The team had been absolutely shocking in the matches leading up to the RWC in 2003. I remember watching them being beaten by the All Blacks in the Bledisloe earler that year by close to 50 points. Not a great team and other than that event (RWC) nothing has changed and that is the problem.
Results alone are not the deciding factor. Jones's relience on statistics and figures, rather than either form or passion and his total unwillingness to change the way he thinks, I believe, were big factors in his demise. While a certain amount of analysis is definately required in all sport, Jones tended to base all play and selection decisions on stats, which clearly were not working for him, rather than letting the players play the game.
There were forwards lost in the backline (constantly), slowing the play down, very little effort or education put into scrummaging (Lilycrap definately not the answer), a forward pack that has become an international joke (not just the front three either), backs playing permanently out of position or out of form, no passion, confidence or spark in the playing side, ignoring the HPU chief, who wanted more youth blooded and an alternative to Gregan found, and definately no youngsters being brought through the ranks, among other issues, all contributed to the poor recent form.
A number of under-21 rep players were taken on tour (Shephard, Huston, Palato-Nao) and only a couple actually got minimal game time. That is not developing the future of the sport, which it desperately needs. And honestly I think that if Jones had given a few more of the kids a run and loosened the grip on his calculator a little, even if the team had still lost, he may have been given a bit of breathing room.
Look at what New Zealand were able to do - they won a Grand Slam with four completely different teams, not playing their best all the time, they made half a dozen or so debuts, and everyone who went on the tour played in at least one of the tests. Now, they do have superior depth at the moment (Aussie domestic rugby problems for another day) but it was the attitude of the All Black coaching staff that impressed me the most. They seemed willing (if not able) to let a possible Grand Slam win slip, to bring on the kids for the future, most importantly the 2007 World Cup. This is not something Australian rugby has done in a very long time.
Add to that the total, unqualified and ridiculous loyalty to Gearge Gregan, who has been great for Australian rugby, but was a minimum of 6 months past his used by date at the time of the tour. His form has ranged from very ordinary to total crap and Jones never bit the bullet to replace him with fresher legs, whether that be Whittaker or (preferably) Henjak. Both of whom actually got dropped along with Giteau, while they all showed better form than Gregan.
On a side note the fact that Gregan has said absolutely nothing since Jones's sacking speaks volumes in my opinion about the relationship between the two. Gregan should be condemned because of one of the most appalling acts imaginable by an Australian sporting captain - a heartless silence on the sacking of a coach who had made your position untouchable. Jones stuck by Gregan, but George was no where to be seen over the last couple of weeks.
While I think that getting rid of Jones (and Gregan) is a necessity for the future of Australian rugby, I didn't really like the way it was handled. I think that out of respect, Jones (as Wallaby coach for the past four years) should have been given the opportunity to at least state his case to the board, rather than being somewhat unceremoniously dumped. I also think that he handled the press wonderfully after his sacking.
But as I said earler results are not the only guide to whether the coach has been a success or not. Success against who and where would be much more telling in the overall scheme of things. He has a successful winning ratio but how does he fare against our Tri-Nations rivals? I can't imagine it being particularly positive. I don't think Jones has ever won a Bledisloe Cup or a Tri-Nations trophy. Winning against Italy or a travelling Wales is great, but probably not the best indicator of where we sit as an international rugby force, which is what the Wallabies damn well should be.
Jones was a competant Wallaby coach, but this tour was not his first failure, and the choice of his successor will be interesting (my money is on Nucifora) but he unfortunately does not compare to Rod McQueen, who struggled at the beginning of his tenure until he worked through the problems left behind by the late Greg Smith, but McQueen just seemed to manage the team as well as the play book with more style. I am just grateful that he is on the panel how will choose our next coach.
At the end of the day, a number, if not all of these problems are the sole responsibility of the coach (including possible attitude problems) and therefore the Wallabies were in my opinion, not being coached in a way that would win them games. This always leads to the end of the head coach.
Just my opinion ;D !!!
!!! And agree with Mb64 regarding Eddie Jones being a success as Wallabies coach.
As I understand it the European tour was simply the last straw (England specifically) for the ARU, as there had been multiple problems within Camp Wallaby for a few years before now. Particularly a fued between ARU CEO Gary Flowers and Eddie Jones which erupted in South Africa (where Eddie has never had a victory) earlier this year.
The World Cup was great (and devestating, sitting in the stands, watching that ball go through the uprights) but it was a stand alone result. The team had been absolutely shocking in the matches leading up to the RWC in 2003. I remember watching them being beaten by the All Blacks in the Bledisloe earler that year by close to 50 points. Not a great team and other than that event (RWC) nothing has changed and that is the problem.
Results alone are not the deciding factor. Jones's relience on statistics and figures, rather than either form or passion and his total unwillingness to change the way he thinks, I believe, were big factors in his demise. While a certain amount of analysis is definately required in all sport, Jones tended to base all play and selection decisions on stats, which clearly were not working for him, rather than letting the players play the game.
There were forwards lost in the backline (constantly), slowing the play down, very little effort or education put into scrummaging (Lilycrap definately not the answer), a forward pack that has become an international joke (not just the front three either), backs playing permanently out of position or out of form, no passion, confidence or spark in the playing side, ignoring the HPU chief, who wanted more youth blooded and an alternative to Gregan found, and definately no youngsters being brought through the ranks, among other issues, all contributed to the poor recent form.
A number of under-21 rep players were taken on tour (Shephard, Huston, Palato-Nao) and only a couple actually got minimal game time. That is not developing the future of the sport, which it desperately needs. And honestly I think that if Jones had given a few more of the kids a run and loosened the grip on his calculator a little, even if the team had still lost, he may have been given a bit of breathing room.
Look at what New Zealand were able to do - they won a Grand Slam with four completely different teams, not playing their best all the time, they made half a dozen or so debuts, and everyone who went on the tour played in at least one of the tests. Now, they do have superior depth at the moment (Aussie domestic rugby problems for another day) but it was the attitude of the All Black coaching staff that impressed me the most. They seemed willing (if not able) to let a possible Grand Slam win slip, to bring on the kids for the future, most importantly the 2007 World Cup. This is not something Australian rugby has done in a very long time.
Add to that the total, unqualified and ridiculous loyalty to Gearge Gregan, who has been great for Australian rugby, but was a minimum of 6 months past his used by date at the time of the tour. His form has ranged from very ordinary to total crap and Jones never bit the bullet to replace him with fresher legs, whether that be Whittaker or (preferably) Henjak. Both of whom actually got dropped along with Giteau, while they all showed better form than Gregan.
On a side note the fact that Gregan has said absolutely nothing since Jones's sacking speaks volumes in my opinion about the relationship between the two. Gregan should be condemned because of one of the most appalling acts imaginable by an Australian sporting captain - a heartless silence on the sacking of a coach who had made your position untouchable. Jones stuck by Gregan, but George was no where to be seen over the last couple of weeks.
While I think that getting rid of Jones (and Gregan) is a necessity for the future of Australian rugby, I didn't really like the way it was handled. I think that out of respect, Jones (as Wallaby coach for the past four years) should have been given the opportunity to at least state his case to the board, rather than being somewhat unceremoniously dumped. I also think that he handled the press wonderfully after his sacking.
But as I said earler results are not the only guide to whether the coach has been a success or not. Success against who and where would be much more telling in the overall scheme of things. He has a successful winning ratio but how does he fare against our Tri-Nations rivals? I can't imagine it being particularly positive. I don't think Jones has ever won a Bledisloe Cup or a Tri-Nations trophy. Winning against Italy or a travelling Wales is great, but probably not the best indicator of where we sit as an international rugby force, which is what the Wallabies damn well should be.
Jones was a competant Wallaby coach, but this tour was not his first failure, and the choice of his successor will be interesting (my money is on Nucifora) but he unfortunately does not compare to Rod McQueen, who struggled at the beginning of his tenure until he worked through the problems left behind by the late Greg Smith, but McQueen just seemed to manage the team as well as the play book with more style. I am just grateful that he is on the panel how will choose our next coach.
At the end of the day, a number, if not all of these problems are the sole responsibility of the coach (including possible attitude problems) and therefore the Wallabies were in my opinion, not being coached in a way that would win them games. This always leads to the end of the head coach.
Just my opinion ;D !!!
That is just plain weak.QueenC said:
Not you QC, you've rucked and mauled your way to 1,000 posts.
Without getting cauliflower ears, too. Raise your bat! :clap ;D
Nah, not you QC. I'd reckon you'd make a good loose forward. ;D
Time for Gregan to be put out to pasture. Should have retired after the World Cup so he could go out beaten but dignified. What do you reckon the future holds for him?
Time for Gregan to be put out to pasture. Should have retired after the World Cup so he could go out beaten but dignified. What do you reckon the future holds for him?
Ready said:
Flattering, thank you :
!!!As for George, I don't know what he will do. Continue to play for the Brumbies for at least the 2006 Super 14.
After that I have no idea, he doesn't strike me as a player who could make a go of it in the press, he may end up in coaching eventually, but he does have a couple of businesses in Sydney that I am sure will occupy his time.
Report in The Daily Express today (Sunday) that the ARU are thinking hard about approaching Clive Woodward to coach the Wallabies.
Enough to make you seek a transfer to Samoa! Hopefully it's just idle gossip.
Enough to make you seek a transfer to Samoa! Hopefully it's just idle gossip.
Read that here as well TGN, but I just can't see it happening given the absolute deteste people feel for SCW.TigerGoneNorth said:
I would hope (against all available hope) that the ARU (and I really like the look of, and trust the panel of Rod McQueen, Peter Davis and Simon Poidevin entrusted to appoint the next national coach) would know better :
!!!Apparently Eddie Jones has put his hand up for the soon-to-be-vacant Queensland Reds coaching job, with Jeff Miller having already been told his tenure will run out at the end of the 2006 season, no matter what. Interesting!!!
In other news Laurie Fisher, current coach of the ACT Brumbies, has put up his hand for the Wallaby job. Hoestly I am not sure about this either given he has only been in charge for one season (two in 06) with a less than stellar winning record.
QueenC said:
Eddie Jones has now been officially appointed as the next coach of the Reds, starting in season 2007:-
Jones signs three-year deal
January 12, 2006
FORMER Australia rugby union coach Eddie Jones has signed a three-year contract to coach Queensland from next season.
The Queensland Rugby Union (QRU) announced today that Jones would take over when Jeff Miller finished his tenure in June.
"This is a real coup for Queensland rugby," QRU chief executive Theo Psaros said.
Jones was axed from the national squad last month after the Wallabies had won only one win of their past nine matches.
He was selected from a field of 12 applicants for the Queensland coaching job.
Miller, who led the Reds to 10th last year, was told last year that the QRU would not be renewing his contract after the 2006 Super 14 competition.
AAP
http://foxsports.news.com.au/story/0,8659,17800122-23210,00.html
Interesting.....
I hate seeing it Craig, he better play well.craig said:
He was a ridiculous purchase and one that I hope does not come back to bite us in our butts, but it is, in my opinion symptomatic of the whole problem with rugby union in Australia at the moment. The Tahs lost two fantastic younger players while we were busy pursuing Wendell, two players who I think would have been fantastic (particularly Cameron Shephard) in the coming years.
There has been a massive over dependence on the older tried and tested players (Gregan, Larkham, Sailor.....the front row) who are, in the international sense just not cutting it as they used to. New Zealand debuted something like seven players on their past tour, and you wonder how they are going to go over the next decade or so.
Jones, while in the job had a golden opportunity on the past European tour to push through the development of some of the next generation of Wallaby players (Henjak, Giteau, Palato-Nao etc), but instead chose to say with old faithful. They went on tour but never played, despite the fact we were losing and had been for quite some time.
The losses would have been a hell of a lot easier to take if there was some light on the other side, that we could see that the Wallaby management was working towards something that will protect our future position in the game, but that just doesn't (or didn't) seem to be the case and it cost Jones his job.
Of course this is only one of the issues but for me it is a main one because it goes to the heart of the problem. The ARU therefore had to act or look incompetant, which it does anyway because it hasn't managed to piggy-back on the success of the 2003 World Cup here, so it was forced into making some changes.
There are other ARU administration problems (board problems, idiotic public comments, over funding and over coaching, among others) that I could list but it is currently very early in the morning and I will have to get back to this with a clearer head later in the day
;D !!!craig said:
The Wallaby coaching role is still a golden position in Australian sport, as the Wallabies, despite going through a rough patch at the moment are still a world power in international rugby and you would think that any pofessional coach worth his salt would want to rebuild them back to that position at the top of the tree.
Just my opinion ;D !!!
QueenC said:I hate seeing it Craig, he better play well.craig said:
He was a ridiculous purchase and one that I hope does not come back to bite us in our butts, but it is, in my opinion symptomatic of the whole problem with rugby union in Australia at the moment. The Tahs lost two fantastic younger players while we were busy pursuing Wendell, two players who I think would have been fantastic (particularly Cameron Shephard) in the coming years.
There has been a massive over dependence on the older tried and tested players (Gregan, Larkham, Sailor.....the front row) who are, in the international sense just not cutting it as they used to. New Zealand debuted something like seven players on their past tour, and you wonder how they are going to go over the next decade or so.
Jones, while in the job had a golden opportunity on the past European tour to push through the development of some of the next generation of Wallaby players (Henjak, Giteau, Palato-Nao etc), but instead chose to say with old faithful. They went on tour but never played, despite the fact we were losing and had been for quite some time.
The losses would have been a hell of a lot easier to take if there was some light on the other side, that we could see that the Wallaby management was working towards something that will protect our future position in the game, but that just doesn't (or didn't) seem to be the case and it cost Jones his job.
Of course this is only one of the issues but for me it is a main one because it goes to the heart of the problem. The ARU therefore had to act or look incompetant, which it does anyway because it hasn't managed to piggy-back on the success of the 2003 World Cup here, so it was forced into making some changes.
There are other ARU administration problems (board problems, idiotic public comments, over funding and over coaching, among others) that I could list but it is currently very early in the morning and I will have to get back to this with a clearer head later in the day
craig said:
The Wallaby coaching role is still a golden position in Australian sport, as the Wallabies, despite going through a rough patch at the moment are still a world power in international rugby and you would think that any pofessional coach worth his salt would want to rebuild them back to that position at the top of the tree.
Just my opinion ;D !!!
Good work Queenie, i feel Dells best is past him and should have gone back to League after last world cup. Definately looks more like his game. Big Lote however has equitted himself very nicely though and has developred into a very good strike weapon for the Wallabies. Personally i was dissapointed when both these guys left league.
