SORRY-A 5 letter word thats made history

[jb03]

Is it possible that compensation will be paid but not through the court system. Hasn't Lennon set up a fund in Tassie?

 

[Hayfever]

Is it possible that compensation will be paid but not through the court system. Hasn't Lennon set up a fund in Tassie?

No, that's the Hawthorn sponsorship(cough : ) rort.

 

[Tiger74]

Tiger74,
If their evidence is flimsy and I assume they would need this evidence to benefit from a compo fund.....then that doesn't make sense why they would lobby for a compo fund.
So obviously the "sorry" apology had to have some weight for them to have access to a compo fund.
Then why wouldn't this evidence and 'sorry' carry the same weight in a court of law for individual compo cases, as it would for them to have access to money in a compo fund?

The fund was to operate outside the court system, distributing the funds to those the fund deemed "Stolen" or effected by the Stolen Generation.

 

[dukeos]

How about this quote from Patrick Dodson.

"To those who participated in the removal process and who have looked into their own hearts and found that their intentions were good, I thank you for the care and the love that you showed to those in need. But to those whose intent was malign and motivations racist, your actions have now been exposed and repudiated"

That is very cool. In the same article, there was a picture of an Aboriginal woman, with THANKS printed accross the front. All positive reactions to the Sorry speach.

From an article in Time Magazine Feb 25 2008.

 

[Hayfever]

How about this quote from Patrick Dodson.

"To those who participated in the removal process and who have looked into their own hearts and found that their intentions were good, I thank you for the care and the love that you showed to those in need. But to those whose intent was malign and motivations racist, your actions have now been exposed and repudiated"

That is very cool. In the same article, there was a picture of an Aboriginal woman, with THANKS printed accross the front. All positive reactions to the Sorry speach.

From an article in Time Magazine Feb 25 2008.

The Dodson's are genuine, reasonable and intelligent leaders........ as are Noel Pearson and Warren Mundine. They deserve to be listened to and respected. We need to give these men every bit of support and encouragement to help them help their own people.

I would not give two bob for the blonde bombshell Michael Mansell or Geoff Clark though. They do the cause of indigenous people far more harm than good.

Liver's and others might like to read this quote from Warren Mundine a couple of years ago:-

The indigenous leader and ALP vice-president, Warren Mundine, has rebuked Aboriginal men for the horrific level of domestic violence in many communities.

He said bashing women was not part of traditional Aboriginal culture, and he was tired of the excuses men made for their behaviour, including blaming alcohol, and problems at home.

"I'm tired of hearing Aboriginal men say they bashed their wife because white fellows took our country," he said yesterday. "Now that really [teaches] the white fellows a lesson."

Mr Mundine is one of dozens of prominent men to be appointed "ambassadors" by UNIFEM, the UN development fund for women, in a campaign to eliminate violence against women. Culminating in White Ribbon Day on Friday, the campaign has featured controversial TV advertising, and is part of the biggest effort by men across the world, in partnership with women, to end domestic violence. Speaking at an event attended by the rugby league players Benji Marshall, Dene Halatau, and Robbie Farrah, Mr Mundine called on Aboriginal men to "stand up and make a difference"

He said he was part of a community where the statistics for domestic violence were "the worst of the worst", with women in some Queensland Aboriginal communities at 24 times the average risk of being raped.

A recent survey of 6600 women by the Australian Institute of Criminology found 10 per cent of Australian women had experienced male physical or sexual violence the previous year, and almost 60 per cent had experienced it over their life-time. A study last year by VicHealth found that for women younger than 45, violence contributed more to their poor health and death than factors such as smoking and obesity

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/no-excuse-for-violence-says-aboriginal-leader/2005/11/22/1132421665523.html

 

[Liverpool]

The Dodson's are genuine, reasonable and intelligent leaders........ as are Noel Pearson and Warren Mundine. They deserve to be listened to and respected. We need to give these men every bit of support and encouragement to help them help their own people.
I would not give two bob for the blonde bombshell Michael Mansell or Geoff Clark though. They do the cause of indigenous people far more harm than good.
Liver's and others might like to read this quote from Warren Mundine a couple of years ago:-
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/no-excuse-for-violence-says-aboriginal-leader/2005/11/22/1132421665523.html

Totally agree with you..... :clap (and the article)
If the Aborigines had more leaders like Mundine, Pearson, etc who aren't burying their heads in the sand and are putting their hands up and saying, "Aborigines need to get their act together and stop using the blame-game to justify their behaviour" then the Aboriginal race would be far better off than they are now.

Like you said...people like Mansell and Clark are doing what they do for themselves and a small minority of the Aboriginal race and are not looking at the big picture 10,20,30 years from now.

I have used some of Mundine's lines in past posts on this thread, such as:

Says Warren Mundine, Labor's president: "I understand why some governments and also the white Australian community ... like to back off, because they don't want to be accused of being racist or creating a stolen generation again. I'm saying to them, 'No, you need to get your hands dirty if you're going have to fix this'."

I hope Rudd doesn't change the intervention order that Howard introduced too much....and if the likes of Mundine and Brough can get more involved, then maybe, MAYBE, the Aboriginal race can get somewhere.
The key is to aim for the younger generation though...try and influence them while they are young enough to absorb what is going to help them and what is not. Get them into school and educate them...that would be a great start.

 

[dukeos]

I hope Rudd doesn't change the intervention order that Howard introduced too much....and if the likes of Mundine and Brough can get more involved, then maybe, MAYBE, the Aboriginal race can get somewhere.
The key is to aim for the younger generation though...try and influence them while they are young enough to absorb what is going to help them and what is not. Get them into school and educate them...that would be a great start.

Hey Livers, a litle optimism? Good to see. I think that saying Sorry is making ripples of good vibes on all sides of the debate.

This just may be the beginning of something long lasting and very positive. Well done Rudd, pehaps we can disolve the Vic govt and become a territory. I'd be up for that!!

 

[Liverpool]

Hey Livers, a litle optimism? Good to see. I think that saying Sorry is making ripples of good vibes on all sides of the debate.

If more Aborigines like Mundine started to have a look in their own backyard instead of just using a convenient scapegoat most of the time (whites coming to Australia) then more people would be optimistic about this race.
Like in the article Hayfever posted:


He said bashing women was not part of traditional Aboriginal culture, and he was tired of the excuses men made for their behaviour, including blaming alcohol, and problems at home.
"I'm tired of hearing Aboriginal men say they bashed their wife because white fellows took our country," he said yesterday


This is a realist appraisal of what is happening and something that can be worked on to eradicate......BUT while we have many Aborigines and, even worse, leftist propagandists out there helping make excuses, all it does is fuel the fire of discontent.

"Sorry" being another admittance of an excuse that has been used for years as a reason for this race to fail.....so no, 'sorry' hasn't had a ripple of good effect on myself, but people like Mundine are the ones that give me more optimism.

 

[glantone]

I hope Rudd doesn't change the intervention order that Howard introduced too much....and if the likes of Mundine and Brough can get more involved, then maybe, MAYBE, the Aboriginal race can get somewhere.
The key is to aim for the younger generation though...try and influence them while they are young enough to absorb what is going to help them and what is not. Get them into school and educate them...that would be a great start.

Totally agree, Liverpool! (and might I add it pleases me no end to do so).
Though, efforts to help the elders make positive changes to their own lives must also be stepped up to give the young a fighting chance to develop.
Hard road ahead I fear but what way other is there?

 

[Liverpool]

In the article you posted, the prick who bashed the old lady was an indigenous aussie who in my book got off absurdly lightly. What's your point in regards to Kev's apology speech?
If he was a disadvantaged homeless white guy (and I hazard to guess there are plenty of them checking-in to the courts each day) and the old lady was an indigenous aussie, would that in some way reinforce Kev’s apology for past state sponsored repression and abuse? None the less, as you did make that post can you identify what relevant point you were making to ‘Kev’s apology speech’ in selecting that particular article to post?

Glantone,
I used this specific article because it seems people are going overboard with this 'sorry' stuff and not looking at reality that is happening out there today.
If people find Rudd's apology "moving" well surely they should feel something towards this article and who is saying 'sorry' to this granny for the weak as *smile* sentence (or lack of) handed down?
The judge uses the excuse that this Aboriginal was 'young and skinny' (obviously not young and skinny enough to do the crime), which is another soft as butter sentence given to an Aboriginal perp....and not much better to the blokes who raped the 10 year old girl in Queensland.
How is Rudd's speech going to make any difference when we have leftist/social-engineered people out there with an agenda....and I say agenda because no amount of 'sorry' is going to improve the outlook of Aborigines while we have judges who make excuses like this.
The judge who handed down this sentence to the Aboriginal granny-basher:

Mr Parsons, a barrister for almost 30 years, also has extensive ties with the community through his work as a director of the Stolen Generation Board, the Melbourne Community Foundation and the Koorie Heritage Trust.

http://www.dpc.vic.gov.au/domino/Web_Notes/newmedia.nsf/798c8b072d117a01ca256c8c0019bb01/b0e6df3e04409bd2ca2571d30006cfc0!OpenDocument

Surely this is a conflict of interest when you have judges who are in favour of "sorry" and "stolen generations" in charge of handing down sentences to Aboriginal perps, especially when they come up with excuses like 'young and skinny' as a reason to let them off.

So yes...everyone can be moved by 'sorry' but it doesn't change make one iota of difference unless people like this judge are held accountable for these types of "mistakes".

 

[Panthera tigris FC]

This is appropriate for any of the forums in this part of PRE

 

[AngryAnt]

This is appropriate for any of the forums in this part of PRE

:cutelaugh :cutelaugh

 

[Tiger74]

This is appropriate for any of the forums in this part of PRE

This is out of date. Liverpool came up with quotes from Bolta to prove he was right all along, so the stick figure man was able to finally go to bed.

 

[Liverpool]

This is out of date. Liverpool came up with quotes from Bolta to prove he was right all along, so the stick figure man was able to finally go to bed.

I don't need Bolt to prove I am right on this....I've said all along it was about money and I've said all along that hounding the Government to say 'sorry' was all about getting leverage to go to court.
Why else would we all of a sudden have a glut of compo cases as soon as 'sorry' is muttered?
A strange coincidence, I think not.

People kept saying that they didn't want money, just an apology...that saying 'sorry' wouldn't cost us anything......just say 'sorry' and we all move on happily together....that we hadn't seen 'stolen generation' cases in the past because they were not interested in compo, were in poverty and couldn't pay legal costs, logistical reasons, etc, etc.
That it was all "scare tactics" from people like myself against the apology.
All excuses from people burying their heads in the sand and ignoring reality.

Only TWO days after 'sorry' we had a run of people going for compo....40...then 50....now this:


Aboriginal group to launch 1000-strong claim
By Victoria Laurie
February 21, 2008 01:00am
THE flood of compensation claims feared by those who opposed the national apology to the Stolen Generations has materialised, with a prominent Perth lawyer and the state's peak Aboriginal group joining forces to launch a 1000-strong claim in the West Australian and Northern Territory supreme courts.
It signals an intention to seek massive sums, far bigger than the West Australian Government's $114 million alternative compensation scheme, which has effectively been sidelined by indigenous groups.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23248361-2,00.html

 

[Tiger74]

I don't need Bolt to prove I am right on this....I've said all along it was about money and I've said all along that hounding the Government to say 'sorry' was all about getting leverage to go to court.
Why else would we all of a sudden have a glut of compo cases as soon as 'sorry' is muttered?
A strange coincidence, I think not.

Two things mate.

Firstly I was making a joke at your expense, please don't bring issues into it :hihi

Secondly, everything you are saying about the cases is irrelevant. ONLY ONE HAS SUCCEEDED!!!!

Look at Mabo. Everyone freaked out, people were gunna lose their backyards, and the world was generally going to end. What happened? The burden of proof was pretty full on, and the vast majority of cases failed. Who cares if they fail, its only if they succeed that they have an effect.

Stop tilting at windmills Don, there are bigger issues out there to be concerned with (like how we get the bloody ball effectively into our forward 50)

 

[Liverpool]

Two things mate.
Firstly I was making a joke at your expense, please don't bring issues into it :hihi
Secondly, everything you are saying about the cases is irrelevant. ONLY ONE HAS SUCCEEDED!!!!
Look at Mabo. Everyone freaked out, people were gunna lose their backyards, and the world was generally going to end. What happened? The burden of proof was pretty full on, and the vast majority of cases failed. Who cares if they fail, its only if they succeed that they have an effect.
Stop tilting at windmills Don, there are bigger issues out there to be concerned with (like how we get the bloody ball effectively into our forward 50)

Firstly....who is paying for the legal fees and court costs to see if they succeed or not?

Secondly...the burden of proof MAY be pretty full on, but as we have seen with the legal system and Aborigines over the past 6-12 months in particular, it is the age of the 'Aboriginal Love-In' and any facts, evidence, and proof that should be looked at and treated in a methodical and analytical way is simply being put aside in favour of moralistic, feel-good, ego-driven agendas. You only need to look at examples like the granny-basher and what happened at Aurukun to see what the legal system is like these days. Times have changed a lot since Mabo mate.

Finally....and I'll say it again...ZERO cases have succeeded.
The basis of the stolen generation is that people were removed due to their race and laws at the time allowing this to happen. Trevorrow was removed in a state and at a time when there was NO such law, and therefore he cannot be part of a stolen generation. That is why he received compo based on facts and evidence and didn't rely on 'sorry' being muttered before taking legal action. If a whole generation of people were removed the same as Trevorrow, the courts would already be full of claimants, but they were not.
They were not full because there are no facts, evidence, and proof to back up this myth and why the Government for so long have been hounded into this phoney apology to provide such leverage.
Of course now they have this apology, we are seeing mass claimants come forward.

 

[Disco08]

lol, still parroting that strawman I see.

 

[Tiger74]

Firstly....who is paying for the legal fees and court costs to see if they succeed or not?

Secondly...the burden of proof MAY be pretty full on, but as we have seen with the legal system and Aborigines over the past 6-12 months in particular, it is the age of the 'Aboriginal Love-In' and any facts, evidence, and proof that should be looked at and treated in a methodical and analytical way is simply being put aside in favour of moralistic, feel-good, ego-driven agendas. You only need to look at examples like the granny-basher and what happened at Aurukun to see what the legal system is like these days. Times have changed a lot since Mabo mate.

Finally....and I'll say it again...ZERO cases have succeeded.
The basis of the stolen generation is that people were removed due to their race and laws at the time allowing this to happen. Trevorrow was removed in a state and at a time when there was NO such law, and therefore he cannot be part of a stolen generation. That is why he received compo based on facts and evidence and didn't rely on 'sorry' being muttered before taking legal action. If a whole generation of people were removed the same as Trevorrow, the courts would already be full of claimants, but they were not.
They were not full because there are no facts, evidence, and proof to back up this myth and why the Government for so long have been hounded into this phoney apology to provide such leverage.
Of course now they have this apology, we are seeing mass claimants come forward.

You correct me by saying zero cases have succeeded instead of one, and this is your proof the sky is falling?? ???

You need to grab a beer and chill mate.

As for the legal bills, its the price of being in a democracy with a legal system that (theoretically) treats all equally.

The day you get to tell me if my case is worthy before it can be judged is the day I leave this country. And the other option of letting money decide who gets to go to court (making it the domain of the rich), well this has worked real well in the States.

Compared to a lot of the expenses we cop as a community, legal aid and the govt legal bills are minimal.

 

[Liverpool]

You correct me by saying zero cases have succeeded instead of one, and this is your proof the sky is falling?? ???

Nope, my proof is that I told you all that 'sorry' was about compo and all of a sudden we have a glut of compo-seekers now, because Rudd said sorry.
Gee, what a surprise...but I told you so!

Now I'm telling you we'll see victory after victory in court for the compo-seekers because Rudd said 'sorry'.....we'll see if I'm right (again) or not, eh?

And you know what?
After the 'sorry', "it was very moving blah blah blah", the courts costs, legal bills, and compo payouts...you know how much better off the Aboriginal race will be overall, and in the long term?
Diddly squat!

 

[Cuzzo]

And you know what?
After the 'sorry', "it was very moving blah blah blah", the courts costs, legal bills, and compo payouts...you know how much better off the Aboriginal race will be overall, and in the long term?
Diddly squat!


"Sorry" has already started to help the Aboriginal people address the problems of the future.Why are white Australians terrified of the thought of compensation to a group of people who should not have for any reason been dealt with in the manner they were.
Until we try and understand properly their past we will contnue to be blind to the so many abhorent social injustices that exist ie mortality rates.
Read "Why Warriors Lay Down and Die" and get a feel for what we have all overlooked.Saying "Sorry" lets these people know we understand and its a huge start.

PS can someone tell me how to do that quote thing properly