Sound the alarm series - Grand Final Coaches Box footage

[AngryAnt]

Hi AA

Some of us are on the “Inside” without it having to be about a footy dept and we don’t go on about it.

Discussions around significant and important topics such as authentic Leadership, culture, development of people, recruitment strategies of people, training and development of people can be made by many of us who actually run businesses vs The frankly ridiculous notion posted by TBR about success being random and luck

There is no luck about it at all. The only time luck is involved is in one game or one period and injuries.

Sustained success in football clubs is no different than sustained success in business. It is about the above items. As it is For all businesses. Every CEO would say the same.

So are you on the inside or not? Previous post seemed to be yes but now you seem to be... I dunno. For what it's worth, I'm in the corporate world, I know about HR, org change, motivation and all that crap too - perfectly fair to cite it as well. It's all about opinions and experience. But to claim you are on the "inside" because you work in business is, frankly, BS.

It's pretty clear I disagree with TBR on the luck issue, but I still value his insights on training, motivation, injuries and injury management. I've never played sport at a high level although I still play sport at the ripe age of 53 - who cares right - so it's interesting for me to get some insights from someone who is involved in professional sport there right now.

 

[Streak]

Leigh Matthews won four flags as coach. He says it’s the cattle, not the coaching.

Until recent times I would have agreed except, I have seen a situation where this isn't the case. So I guess I 99.99998% agree.

Exhibit A our own Damian Hardwick circa 2017.

If we had sacked Damian at the end of 2016, I do not believe that any other coach in the world could have won us that flag in 2017.

I truely believe that he was the only person who could coach that team to the flag. Now this is based on taking in to account a lot of unique circumstances. He had already been at the club for some time, knew the players and believed in them when no one else really did etc. etc.

But the fact remains, I can't see us winning the 2017 flag without Dimma as coach.

 

[bob]

So are you on the inside or not? Previous post seemed to be yes but now you seem to be... I dunno. For what it's worth, I'm in the corporate world, I know about HR, org change, motivation and all that crap too - perfectly fair to cite it as well. It's all about opinions and experience. But to claim you are on the "inside" because you work in business is, frankly, BS.

It's pretty clear I disagree with TBR on the luck issue, but I still value his insights on training, motivation, injuries and injury management. I've never played sport at a high level although I still play sport at the ripe age of 53 - who cares right - so it's interesting for me to get some insights from someone who is involved in professional sport there right now.

Hi Angry,

Professional sport is a business. More than enough 'inside' insights from that challenge alone.

I can see how anyone would enjoy the insights of someone who claims they worked in 'injury management or training items'. Some of those opinions would be good to hear and think through if they made good sense.

Working in serious businesses with serious outcomes is inside enough for me.

 

[bob]

That's certainly a theory with plenty of logic to it and could well be the case.

Having said that he did start with Leppitsch and Craig Lambert (not sure exactly where his suspension was at) who are renowned as being very, very good when it comes to young player welfare, a lot of which has to do with their wives who are reportedly great in that space.

There's also plenty of guys in and around his draft year that have done well, it was the time when they built a lot of the current list.



You don't much like me Bob, but that's ok, I kind of dig it.

No, I haven't seen all 18 clubs draft projections but I've seen a few. I've also seen and you may well have as well, any number of phantom drafts by the various media organisations and draft experts getting around.

If you look at those sources, you will notice that the top 50 or 60 picks don't have much variation in them. Apart from the odd bolter or slider, there's a high level of accuracy in anticipating the first 50 or 60 picks. The days of a club having someone in the Managatang thirds tucked away, or a name being read out that causes everyone to gasp are long gone. That's what I mean about the clubs all getting to about the same place in terms of who the first 50 or 60 picks are, despite using different systems to do so. I think the main reason for that is the key criteria for everyone will always be how well does the kid play footy, regardless of anything more complicated with list needs etc

You are right TBR, I'm not a fan and I have even tried to be! But just cant do it! And good for you for digging it.

IMO, your urge to be right is not a good thing for this forum.

 

[TigerMasochist]

Think I like Balmey's view of footballers coming through the system.
They can all play the game, that's why they get drafted. The difficult bit is how you then get them to be the best person n player they possibly can be.

There is always a smidgeon of luck required in every kid that's drafted or for every club that gets to be successful. By far the most of it boils down to a heap of hard work, good management and a great culture that helps people grow n develop themselves within a group.

 

[bob]

It might be that we are too alike, you seem to have a pretty powerful urge to be right yourself.

Don’t think we are anything alike to be honest, which is probably a positive and good thing for you.

Just that for my value system on certain matters like calling out a medical team from afar without knowing the circumstances and on this thread regarding what delivers sustained success, to see and read what is right and wrong, and not to call it out is the worst cowardice.

 

[deedee]

Luck = Dimma's laptop issues before he ever set foot into Tigerland.

 

[jb03]

Matthews couldn't even get his Norm Smith votes right. That his opinions are elevated above all others is annoying.

 

[Baloo]

Matthews couldn't even get his Norm Smith votes right. That his opinions are elevated above all others is annoying.

Unless he's pumping Dusty's tyres, then he's cool.

 

[T-Shirt Tommy]

I think there is a shift in our recruiting philosophy now where we look for certain traits in recruits rather than match performance (to a certain extent).

Whenever DImma talks about possible debutants in press conferences, he is always mentioning 'AFL traits'.

 

[daniel30]

Dimma puts all the coaches in this segment and previous ones in his pocket from what I seen even as a motivator.

 

[AngryAnt]

Hi Angry,

Professional sport is a business. More than enough 'inside' insights from that challenge alone.

I can see how anyone would enjoy the insights of someone who claims they worked in 'injury management or training items'. Some of those opinions would be good to hear and think through if they made good sense.

Working in serious businesses with serious outcomes is inside enough for me.

If i want a business audit I'll ask PWC, when I want insight into how clubs train develop and manage players I'll ask someone who has done it.

They aren't the same thing.

 

[DavidSSS]

Just listen to what Dimma says: all the players in the draft can play the game, they can all kick, mark and handpass. They can all run.

Back in the 1990s I was always pissed off that the successful teams who would get draft picks and turn them into good and a few great players. We would get high draft pics who were far less likely to be good or great.

This is not chance, this is not luck.

This is development, this is culture.

Yes, there is some luck involved, but not a hell of a lot. It isn't chance. If it was chance then why would the successful clubs turn their recruits into, on average, better players than the unsuccessful clubs?

We are dealing with a professional sport. There are many measures in place to equalise: the draft, salary cap, fixture etc. The competition is very close. North Melbourne are probably one of the worst teams we have seen for a while, but they only have to be a bit better, and meet a team having a bit of a bad day, and they will win a game. The point is that the difference between good development, good culture etc and lesser development and culture does not have to be large to make a huge difference in ladder position.

I think of it similar to poker. On average each player will get the same number of good hands and crap hands - that is luck. Yet, some players will do well and some not so well - that is skill.

DS

 

[bob]

If i want a business audit I'll ask PWC, when I want insight into how clubs train develop and manage players I'll ask someone who has done it.

They aren't the same thing.

Sure.

But to me, training, developing and managing players is almost the same as training, developing and managing staff in a business. Apart from the physical injuries.

 

[MD Jazz]

I think of it similar to poker. On average each player will get the same number of good hands and crap hands - that is luck. Yet, some players will do well and some not so well - that is skill.

DS

Great example DS.

 

[AngryAnt]

Sure.

But to me, training, developing and managing players is almost the same as training, developing and managing staff in a business. Apart from the physical injuries.

Given your obvious expertise in the area I'm surprised AFL clubs haven't tapped you up already

 

[RoarEmotion]

I’ve heard on the BF podcast that we value recruiting three behavioural qualities

- selflessness / team result ahead of self result.
- desire to learn / improve (think balta / response to losses even)
- competitiveness (think butler and castagna table tennis)

If you match these up with a good development program then you should expect good results and a whole group competing to get better individually and as a team. I see this a little on field with Melbourne this year as having clicked in this behavioural space.

I wouldn’t call this luck and it would flow down from what the club values and it’s cultures.

if you think through our list you will see this in spades. Think about what we hate the most in other players from other clubs - it’s typically figjams and selfish players.

 

[bob]

Given your obvious expertise in the area I'm surprised AFL clubs haven't tapped you up already

Never know!

 

[Tiger Rob]

I’m feeling generous TBR, I’ll go you 50/50. You need luck. But you need the people (coaches, support staff), game plan, etc to make the most of the luck you have.

 

[Sintiger]

I’ve heard on the BF podcast that we value recruiting three behavioural qualities

- selflessness / team result ahead of self result.
- desire to learn / improve (think balta / response to losses even)
- competitiveness (think butler and castagna table tennis)

If you match these up with a good development program then you should expect good results and a whole group competing to get better individually and as a team. I see this a little on field with Melbourne this year as having clicked in this behavioural space.

I wouldn’t call this luck and it would flow down from what the club values and it’s cultures.

if you think through our list you will see this in spades. Think about what we hate the most in other players from other clubs - it’s typically figjams and selfish players

I recently read the Marlion Pickett book, enjoyed it more than I thought I would. However if you look at his career with south Fremantle the thing that was constantly pointed out was his team focus. I’m pretty sure that was part of what attracted us to him