tigertim said:
Sam Dwyer - 23 possessions, 14 contested, 1 goal, 2 score assists, absolutely dominated in his first full match.
-
IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.
State League Watch
- Thread starter bullus_hit
- Start date
Sam Dwyer - 23 possessions, 14 contested, 1 goal, 2 score assists, absolutely dominated in his first full match.
bullus_hit said:
At the risk of leysy p!ssing in his own pocket this guy would have played 100 games for us if drafted 5 years ago.
Quick, skilled & finds the footy. He's also no better now than a few years back. Especially pre his knee reco.
Might have mentioned him once or twice going back a while. Excuse the chest beating folks. ;D
Leysy Days said:
Leysy Days said:
Leysy Days said:
Leysy Days said:
Leysy Days said:
Leysy Days said:
I know you've been a fan Leysy, good call.
Once again this highlights the fact that we need to stop recruiting retreads like Lonergan and start picking up guys who have a history dominating the lower leagues. I mentioned in another thread that it was a no brainer to pick Dwyer ahead of Lonergan, a retread who has averaged 15 possessions a match his whole career. It would have strengthened our list immediately and it would have cost nothing more than a second round rookie pick.
Once again this highlights the fact that we need to stop recruiting retreads like Lonergan and start picking up guys who have a history dominating the lower leagues. I mentioned in another thread that it was a no brainer to pick Dwyer ahead of Lonergan, a retread who has averaged 15 possessions a match his whole career. It would have strengthened our list immediately and it would have cost nothing more than a second round rookie pick.
zippadeee said:
Did you see the game today Zips? Dwyer was just as effective as Swan and Pendlebury, and he's every bit the inside player that Lonergan is. His disposal is top notch and he's dangerous around goals. Lonergan is a poor kick, lacks an engine and struggles to impact games.
bullus_hit said:
If he was as good as your saying why did he get picked up as rookie and what are the other 16 clubs doing.
It does help when the best stoppers go to the swan & penderbury when the smurfs like Sinclair, sidebottom & the number 11 run around with any opposition.
There's a huge difference playing at collingwood compare to playing at Richmond
zippadeee said:
What do you think this thread is all about? Tapping into the state league goldmines has been an issue a number of us have been hammering home for years now. Go back and check some of the other threads if you've got the time.
As for what other clubs are doing, I would say the RFC is well behind the eightball when it comes to the SANFL, WAFL and particularly the VFL. We have always gone down the retread path and it usually ends up being a complete waste of time.
Sam Dwyer has been a star at Port Melbourne for years now, he's you classic high achiever who's done everything required of him at state league level. He's in the same category of many of the other state league recruits that have made the transition, and he's seemingly been a victim of clubs youth obsession and reluctance to take on mature agers.
SCOOP said:
2 points: First, aren't Kingy, Morris and X man overage state leaguers? So we have gone down that path. Second, you can't fix everything instantaneously. We used to be terrible at all aspects of recruiting. The only good player we got were glaringly obvious (and we missed some of them) and in spite of ourselves. The way I see it we are attacking one aspect, or weakness, at a time systematically, a method that has never happened, maybe it next or further down he list?
It is true that we have done well with King, Nahas and Morris from State Leagues. They were all good, solid pick-ups. King is a Coburg B&F winner, Nahas is a Fothergill-Round Medallist (Best young VFL player of his year) and Morris is a B&F winner at West Adelaide.
We have not done so well with Derickx, Nason, Webberley and others. Not surprisingly, none of these three were well-credentialled. Derickx, for example, had one year of senior footy playing in a similar role to the one Vickery plays now. Nason spent more time playing SANFL reserves than he did playing SANFL seniors and Webs was a very good player but in a lower league. See the difference?
Dwyer has excelled for Port Melbourne over many years. He was playing senior footy alongside Nahas in his two year stint at Port Melbourne and Nahas now has 78 AFL games.
Another one who will come to the fore this year is Callum Sinclair, who just played his first game for WC. He played several seasons of senior footy at Port Melbourne and had a fantastic year in the WAFL last year. He is 201 cm tall and has the speed and skills to play key forward. He is another player from our back-yard who has been a lay-down misere.
We haven’t ignored the State Leagues but we have missed some real opportunities, usually preferring speculative 18 year-olds to seasoned 22 year-olds who are ready to go.
One of the big disappointments with our recent recruiting is the Rookie Draft of 2009. We started with a seriously good win, taking Dylan Grimes in the PSD and followed up with the following:
Robert Hicks ahead of Michael Barlow
Pat Contin ahead of Alex Silvagni and Ben Howlett
Relton Roberts ahead of Ashton Hams and Stuart Crameri.
Our other three late picks, Nick Westhoff, Graham Polak and Jamie O’Reilly are no longer at the club either.
Whilst I hate the “we took this guy ahead of that superstar” comparisons, that was a critical draft for the rebuilding of our club. We nailed the Dusty and Grimes picks and have three other promising players in Griffiths, Astbury and Dea. A couple of mature State Leaguers like those above would have fast-tracked the recovery big-time.
I’m less critical of the Lonergan pick-up than I am of the speculative juniors. At least with Lonergan, he is on the list, can come in and play if needed and, if not needed, will be gone at the end of the year. The 18 year-olds who need three seasons before they can even be considered for a major role in the senior VFL team have no place on an AFL list. We are a senior football club playing in the National competition, not a Nursery. Every player on our list should be ready to “plug-and-play.”
We have not done so well with Derickx, Nason, Webberley and others. Not surprisingly, none of these three were well-credentialled. Derickx, for example, had one year of senior footy playing in a similar role to the one Vickery plays now. Nason spent more time playing SANFL reserves than he did playing SANFL seniors and Webs was a very good player but in a lower league. See the difference?
Dwyer has excelled for Port Melbourne over many years. He was playing senior footy alongside Nahas in his two year stint at Port Melbourne and Nahas now has 78 AFL games.
Another one who will come to the fore this year is Callum Sinclair, who just played his first game for WC. He played several seasons of senior footy at Port Melbourne and had a fantastic year in the WAFL last year. He is 201 cm tall and has the speed and skills to play key forward. He is another player from our back-yard who has been a lay-down misere.
We haven’t ignored the State Leagues but we have missed some real opportunities, usually preferring speculative 18 year-olds to seasoned 22 year-olds who are ready to go.
One of the big disappointments with our recent recruiting is the Rookie Draft of 2009. We started with a seriously good win, taking Dylan Grimes in the PSD and followed up with the following:
Robert Hicks ahead of Michael Barlow
Pat Contin ahead of Alex Silvagni and Ben Howlett
Relton Roberts ahead of Ashton Hams and Stuart Crameri.
Our other three late picks, Nick Westhoff, Graham Polak and Jamie O’Reilly are no longer at the club either.
Whilst I hate the “we took this guy ahead of that superstar” comparisons, that was a critical draft for the rebuilding of our club. We nailed the Dusty and Grimes picks and have three other promising players in Griffiths, Astbury and Dea. A couple of mature State Leaguers like those above would have fast-tracked the recovery big-time.
I’m less critical of the Lonergan pick-up than I am of the speculative juniors. At least with Lonergan, he is on the list, can come in and play if needed and, if not needed, will be gone at the end of the year. The 18 year-olds who need three seasons before they can even be considered for a major role in the senior VFL team have no place on an AFL list. We are a senior football club playing in the National competition, not a Nursery. Every player on our list should be ready to “plug-and-play.”
tigersnake said:
That has got to be one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever seen.
So if there are several weaknesses in a system you only address one at a time. :
As has been pointed out by the critics, if you fail in one area (eg SL rookies) it reflects damage onto other areas (foot soldiers v guns picks). Bit obvious I would have thought.
TOT70 said:
They're all a lay-down misere (how do you spell that?) in hindsight. I was mostly responding to scoops 'we don't go down that path' comment. We do go down that path. With mixed results, like all other clubs. Morris, King and Nahas all in our best 26? 28? 30? Thats over 10%. What are other sides percentage? What would be considered successful?
As I said, I think we getting our ducks in a row, and prioritising what we concentrate on. I reckon we've done a pretty good job all up. Could we improve on the state league talent identification? Of course, you can always improve.
RedanTiger said:That has got to be one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever seen.
So if there are several weaknesses in a system you only address one at a time. :
As has been pointed out by the critics, if you fail in one area (eg SL rookies) it reflects damage onto other areas (foot soldiers v guns picks). Bit obvious I would have thought.
I reckon we've prioritised areas in sequence, its a good approach and its working. Ridiculous it ain't Pleasant St Boy, Thats not to say we have ignored other areas, clearly we have an eye on the state leagues and have been active. I reckon its a bit of gross overstatement of the problem going on, and also its all a bit unrealistic, you can't draft 'em all.
Petterd and Lonergan and even Edwards, are effectively state league recruits in my mind. I know and understand why many would disagree with that, its only my view.
TOT70 said:
Top post Tottie, you've hit the nail on the head on many fronts. And I love the nursery analogy, you might want to also add nursing home to that description, if one considers the Polak and Hislop situations.
But on the bright side, Ricky Petterd looks set to break our 4 year drought on the rookie front, that's if one deems the Miller experiment to be a failure. Williams is another who should be seen as the prototype junior, that is a guy who's physical attributes should see him match ready in 2 years. This is where Collingwood has been so successful, they have clear parameters and just about every one of their rookies is ready to run within 12-24 months.
We've reversed our drafting fortunes on many fronts, next stop has got to be the state leagues, here's hoping anyway.
bullus_hit said:
Don't disagree. I hope our next priority, state league or juniors, is a super quick, super skilled blackfella.
bullus_hit said:
The Polak pick and the retention of Kelvin Moore on the list last year, were emotional choices. The club looked after two popular clubmen and, whilst the onfield return was poor, there may well have been other benefits. Carlton have done a similar thing with Sam Rowe this year, sometimes you just have to do the right thing.
Hislop not so much. I was critical of Miller but he did his bit for a season or so.
At least with the older players, they get their opportunity and you know quickly if they can take it or not. Lonergan might play a number of games and be useful or he will be gone quickly, opening up a space for another player.
<
Pick two young Tigers to make a big leap forward in 2024
|
Game Day Thread - Weagles vs Tiges: rnd 18, 2023
>
