Still giving us nothing...'cept Cups and Medals

[TigerMasochist]

Champion Data is a great resource. Unfortunately, it has never come to grips with the most important statistic in the game........goals.

A team can have 7 effective disposals in a row, all of them hitting targets, several of them backwards and sideways, and then the 8th disposal is a turnover. That is 88% disposal efficiency. The net result on the scoreboard is 0.

Another team can have a dump kick forward to a running player who pounces on a loose ball, a couple of tap-ons, a Joe-the-goose and an easy goal. That is 6 points, thank you very much. Hate to see the disposal efficiency of that passage.

Got it Tottie. Champion data are masters of supercoach. RFC are masters of premierships.

 

[Jonesracing82]

Difficult to make an alternate case. Since 2017:

Club	W	L	D	W %
Rich	62	21	1	74.4
W.C.	54	28		65.9
Geel	51	30	1	62.8
GWS	50	31	3	61.3
P.A.	45	32		58.4
Coll	46	33	2	58.0
Ess	41	35		53.9
Haw	40	36	1	52.6
Syd	40	38		51.3
Adel	40	38	1	51.3
Melb	36	41		46.8
W.B.	36	41		46.8
Bris	32	45		41.6
N.M.	31	44		41.3
St.K	30	44	1	40.7
Frem	28	47		37.3
Carl	19	56		25.3
G.C.	17	58		22.7

Be interesting to know what this table looks like now (post Finals)

 

[Jonesracing82]

I was looking fwd to them stating what we all know they were going to, that Geelong has the #1 rated list.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

Be interesting to know what this table looks like now (post Finals)

Club	W	L	D	Win %
Rich	71	23	1	75.3
W.C.	61	30		67.0
Geel	60	33	1	64.4
P.A.	52	34		60.5
GWS	53	36	3	59.2
Coll	51	38	2	57.1
Ess	42	42	1	50.0
Adel	42	43	1	49.4
Melb	42	44		48.8
Syd	42	44		48.8
Haw	41	43	1	48.8
W.B.	41	44		48.2
Bris	41	46		47.1
St.K	35	49	1	41.8
Frem	32	51		38.6
N.M.	31	52		37.3
Carl	22	61		26.5
G.C.	18	64	1	22.3

 

[TOT70]

Champion Data is a great resource, can help us learn plenty about the game but disposal efficiency is a hugely flawed stat.

If you kick the ball 40 metres and it ends in a 50/50 contest then it is considered an effective disposal. So you can kick it 40 metres along the ground to space or bomb it high to a forward outnumbered 4 on 1 and it is effective.

With the importance of winning possession in defence and rebounding, it is ridiculous to call a kick effective just because it doesn't go directly to the opposition. Apart from Daniel Jackson, I don't think there are many players who would consider it appropriate.

Agree.

And the flip side is that if you kick the ball 15 m out in front of a running player who doesn't mark it but grabs it and kicks it through the goals, that is an ineffective kick.

This aspect needs tweaking.

 

[seven]

How did port win so many games?

 

[ToraToraTora]

We really have upended the basic notions of what is good football. Our way has been shown as being consistently superior over 4 years. Good footballers no longer have to get it 35 times a game. Our style was born of necessity and developed to perfection through hunger. And it is that style, not Dusty or Lynch or any individual that will get us home again this year, if indeed it does.

 

[Jonesracing82]

Champion Data is a great resource, can help us learn plenty about the game but disposal efficiency is a hugely flawed stat.

If you kick the ball 40 metres and it ends in a 50/50 contest then it is considered an effective disposal. So you can kick it 40 metres along the ground to space or bomb it high to a forward outnumbered 4 on 1 and it is effective.

With the importance of winning possession in defence and rebounding, it is ridiculous to call a kick effective just because it doesn't go directly to the opposition. Apart from Daniel Jackson, I don't think there are many players who would consider it appropriate.

I was a reader of the Prospectus & now wonder where i'll get the data on game trends etc now it's gone (as i find that stuff very interesting). I have tweeted CD & some others involved with it asking that question but no1 is keen to answer...

 

[TOT70]

Just another point, I would assume that a kick off the ground that dribbles forward is not an effective kick, unless it is a goal. Usually, they don't go 40m and nobody marks the kick.

We kick off the ground a fair bit, really.

 

[TigerMasochist]

We really have upended the basic notions of what is good football. Our way has been shown as being consistently superior over 4 years. Good footballers no longer have to get it 35 times a game.

Dimma's completely foxed the rest of the comp by reverting to old style pensioner age footy.
He's kept a few of the new fangled structures in place, but a lot of what we're doing now harks back to the simple basics that coaches tried to teach a young incompetent like me many many years ago.
Plenty of knock, tap, soccer n scrimmage the ball forward any way you can when your under the pump. Plenty of dirty knees, body on the line work ethic to get the ball toward a team mate to perhaps give him a better opportunity to do something with the ball. Doesn't matter half as much how many times you get the ball as what you do with it when you sometimes do get it.

Far to many teams spend way too much time n energy going round in circles trying to create the perfect set up opportunity. Much easier going as hard n direct down the line and as deep forward as you can. Then work the bastards over again and again once you've got it down there.

Game after game the last four years all the fancy important champion data stats say we shouldn't be winning many games n should be somewhere down around the arse end to maybe middle of the ladder. Game after game the nuffers are picking their dates trying to find a clue while we win flags playing mediocre uncontrolled chaos footy.

 

[Jonesracing82]

2 yrs ago we had a reigning Brownlow medalist getting 40+ touches in consecutive games & the media were drooling over him yet his team had lost those games, so the question which should be asked is "just how good is he". I laugh when i hear the media commenting on stats like that, we don't even value those stats & have the results to prove we are right. I hope opp teams keep trying the kick/mark game against us for many yrs to come!

 

[blx]

The best part about our 2020 finals series is the fact that we added a stronger contested ball play around centre bounces, an area we were well known to concede in.

This is going to be refined even more over the summer and I think it is going to be a huge weapon for us this season.

 

[123cups]

The best part about our 2020 finals series is the fact that we added a stronger contested ball play around centre bounces, an area we were well known to concede in.

This is going to be refined even more over the summer and I think it is going to be a huge weapon for us this season.

I re-watched the prelim last night, and Nick Riewoldt made an interesting comment.

He described our stronger contested ball in the centre as something that removed the opposition’s ability to dine out on it.

It’s unusual for clearances to be characterised as effective because it takes away the opposition’s ability to score.

We seem to be thinking about the game very differently to the rest of the AFL.

 

[Jonesracing82]

The best part about our 2020 finals series is the fact that we added a stronger contested ball play around centre bounces, an area we were well known to concede in.

This is going to be refined even more over the summer and I think it is going to be a huge weapon for us this season.

This is a great point & one i keep forgetting about as until then we were well known to be poor in this area.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

This is a great point & one i keep forgetting about as until then we were well known to be poor in this area.

It's clear now that we were poor because we chose to be poor. Another pointed reminder that this is a great football team. Talk of role players is dupery.

 

[Jonesracing82]

IMo it'

It's clear now that we were poor because we chose to be poor. Another pointed reminder that this is a great football team. Talk of role players is dupery.

It's a sign of great Coaching how we can pretty much transform the way we play during a season, and especially so late in a season.

 

[blx]

I re-watched the prelim last night, and Nick Riewoldt made an interesting comment.

He described our stronger contested ball in the centre as something that removed the opposition’s ability to dine out on it.

It’s unusual for clearances to be characterised as effective because it takes away the opposition’s ability to score.

We seem to be thinking about the game very differently to the rest of the AFL.

My take is, and I could be way off course... we were exposed against Brisbane in the first final and we simply had no choice to adjust or risk being found out down the finals road by Port who are a strong contested ball side.

Without watching the St Kilda final the week after I would say we implemented it in that game and tweeked it again for Port the following week.

We knew if we can at least match their strong contest in the centre square we could outgun them everywhere else on the ground with our connection.

A master stroke which is tailor made for our midfielders waiting in the wings too.

 

[TigerFurious]

My take is, and I could be way off course... we were exposed against Brisbane in the first final and we simply had no choice to adjust or risk being found out down the finals road by Port who are a strong contested ball side.

Without watching the St Kilda final the week after I would say we implemented it in that game and tweeked it again for Port the following week.

We knew if we can at least match their strong contest in the centre square we could outgun them everywhere else on the ground with our connection.

A master stroke which is tailor made for our midfielders waiting in the wings too.

I think the contested ball blitz was planned from further out than the St Kilda final and I’m pretty sure that Hardwick even said that Kingsley came to the other coaches with the idea weeks before. Helped that we got Prestia and Edwards back into the side on the eve of the finals.

Just on the Brisbane game, it’s worth remembering we were without Lynch, Prestia was playing his first game in 3 months, Edwards his second or third and we were coming off a bye which recent history shows we struggle with. On top of that Martin plays his worst final since 2018 prelim. All that and Brisbane could only beat us by 15pts! Talk about rope-a-dope.

 

[Harry]

I think the contested ball blitz was planned from further out than the St Kilda final and I’m pretty sure that Hardwick even said that Kingsley came to the other coaches with the idea weeks before. Helped that we got Prestia and Edwards back into the side on the eve of the finals.

Just on the Brisbane game, it’s worth remembering we were without Lynch, Prestia was playing his first game in 3 months, Edwards his second or third and we were coming off a bye which recent history shows we struggle with. On top of that Martin plays his worst final since 2018 prelim. All that and Brisbane could only beat us by 15pts! Talk about rope-a-dope.

Yeah - old man Fagan probably thinks he's got us figured out

 

[seven]

Yeah - old man Fagan probably thinks he's got us figured out

His stat sheet say yes.