Talking Politics | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
  • IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.

Talking Politics

Baloo said:
The strategy is fairly transparent. Make this a painful budget on the grounds that there is pure belief they will survive it. Next budget will be moderate, third one, before the next election will offer tax cuts and grants to all and sundry.

Leaving us back where we started.

Yeah thats the strategy, but they haven't executed it. Every government does it to a degree. But Lied far too much, especially considering their anti-lie campaign against JG, and also just the level of ineptitude, ideology and payback in this budget is, well, incredible. And its a rare occasion when I don't feel like I'm taking crazy pills, the vast majority of people and experts seem to agree.
 
Azza said:
Not quite Baloo. The deregulated Unis will stay, as will the growing petrol excise, and a broken medicare. The states that sell public hospitals to fund the health short-fall will never buy them back, and the GST will no doubt never drop from the 15% or so that it will have to be raised to.

Agree with the post generally, but IMO, and that of most economists and environmentalists, the fuel exise is good policy. It was dumb policy to abolish it, and its gutless for the ALP to exploit fear over it. Everything else I agree with.
 
tigersnake said:
Yeah thats the strategy, but they haven't executed it. Every government does it to a degree. But Lied far too much, especially considering their anti-lie campaign against JG, and also just the level of ineptitude, ideology and payback in this budget is, well, incredible. And its a rare occasion when I don't feel like I'm taking crazy pills, the vast majority of people and experts seem to agree.

As Brodders keeps saying, it's surprising people are surprised by Abbott's unsurprising lying. He admitted he lies on National TV before being elected. He has a track record of saying what needs to be said to suit his agenda at the time, even if its a complete reversal of a previous policy, statement, ideal.

That this government is going to do what it wants regardless of what has been promised is the only certainty we have.

And we voted him in. We get what we deserve.
 
tigersnake said:
Agree with the post generally, but IMO, and that of most economists and environmentalists, the fuel exise is good policy. It was dumb policy to abolish it, and its gutless for the ALP to exploit fear over it. Everything else I agree with.

For someone who does a 100km round trip drive to work every day (not tax deductable), it's pretty bad from my point of view :-\ And no, there's no public transport alternative. The excise indexing was abolished originally to compensate for bringing in the GST I think.

Overall, however, my concerns with the budget are less about the immediate impact on me and my family and more about the impact on society generally. As to the lies, I'm not at all surprised. That doesn't mean I sit back and not join the noise where I can.
 
Baloo said:
....
And we voted him in. We get what we deserve.

I didn't vote him in. Just wish he would stop talking and do in regards to his double disillusion threats. I wish the Libs would dump him.
 
tigersnake said:
Agree with the post generally, but IMO, and that of most economists and environmentalists, the fuel exise is good policy. It was dumb policy to abolish it, and its gutless for the ALP to exploit fear over it. Everything else I agree with.

True, but just as before he cost JG the PM's job, no one seems to be able to lay a glove on him. The PM has told some whoppers as has the treasurer. But they just keep spouting drivel and everyone is so used to it they seem to waive it off. They were an effective opposition, in political terms, but that is like saying sulphuric acid is an effective exfoliant. I don't mind the fuel excise but if you wanted to make serious money of fossil fuels, slash the discount on diesel for heavy industries. You'd make twice as much in half the time.
 
KnightersRevenge said:
True, but just as before he cost JG the PM's job, no one seems to be able to lay a glove on him. The PM has told some whoppers as has the treasurer. But they just keep spouting drivel and everyone is so used to it they seem to waive it off. They were an effective opposition, in political terms, but that is like saying sulphuric acid is an effective exfoliant. I don't mind the fuel excise but if you wanted to make serious money of fossil fuels, slash the discount on diesel for heavy industries. You'd make twice as much in half the time.

agree with that too on the diesel rebate, that should be in too. Good sulphuric acid analogy.

what is interesting, and predictable about Abbotts lies V Gillards Lie is the different ways they are treated in the media. JG lie, no carbon tax, was attacked by the opposition and the commercial media ran with it, lapped it up. Abbott's lie's are far worse, numerous and will effect more people more intensively, but the commercial media is half-arsed in their criticism. They are critical, but they are dragging the chain, not leading the charge.

Why?

Very simple. JG's carbon tax lie challenged the status quo, vested interests (hydrocarbon energy), upset the apple cart.

All Abbott's lies help the status quo, no threats to the big boys here.
 
True TS. But there's something else going on as well. Publications like New Mathilda and the Guardian are letting fly, and social media is running hot. Perhaps we're finally seeing the threatened eclipse of the old established media outlets.

Hell, YouTube even took down Abbott's post promoting the government because it was deemed to be dishonest!
 
Azza said:
True TS. But there's something else going on as well. Publications like New Mathilda and the Guardian are letting fly, and social media is running hot. Perhaps we're finally seeing the threatened eclipse of the old established media outlets.

Hell, YouTube even took down Abbott's post promoting the government because it was deemed to be dishonest!

for sure az. I was only talking about the commercial media. I reckon he might be stuffed. Which when you think about isn't that surprising for 2 reasons, 1. They only got elected by default, the the ALP had their *smile* even half together we'd be in a third term for them now, and 2. The bloke really is an, um, word I'm not allowed to use, not a nice person. To be honest, I'm a bit surprised by the second one. Historically leaders tend to tone themselves down once they are in power, lefties become more centrist, conservatives grow a bit of a heart, but not Abbott.
 
rosy23 said:
And who was he parading around like prize cattle prior to the election? And whose virginity was he discussing?

funnyily enough whilst he was telling the world his daughters would live at home until they were married one of them was living with their boyfriend.....
 
Brodders17 said:
funnyily enough whilst he was telling the world his daughters would live at home until they were married one of them was living with their boyfriend.....

;D
 
Brodders17 said:
funnyily enough whilst he was telling the world his daughters would live at home until they were married one of them was living with their boyfriend.....

He's not immune to a bit of cognitive dissonance is our PM. His religious beliefs run counter to increasing acceptance of alternative lifestyles but his sister is a lesbian. His chief of staff is a powerful woman but he makes ridiculous statements about ironing boards and women having natural limitations. He is like a jigsaw of misshapen pieces held together by sheer force of will.
 
So what the hell is Palmer up to?

Labor agrees to family benefits freeze as Clive Palmer stonewalls Coalition

Clive Palmer has refused to even speak to the government.

Labor is likely to allow another $2.6bn of the Abbott government’s proposed savings through the Senate, but many other budget measures are set to be blocked because the Palmer United party (PUP) vows it will “not speak to” the Coalition at all.

Labor is understood to intend to allow through the government’s plan to freeze for two years the rates at which family benefits are paid, a decision that delivers savings of $397m this financial year and $2.6bn over the next four years and is due to take effect from 1 July.

But other budget measures face an uncertain Senate path with the PUP’s leader, Clive Palmer, telling Guardian Australia he and his three senators had met over the weekend and resolved they would not negotiate in any way or even speak to the government about any budget measures.

“This is an attack on Australia’s way of life. Our party room resolved not to talk to the Liberal and National parties at all,” he said.

Asked whether a carte blanche refusal to negotiate was not an unusual tactic for a party holding balance-of-power votes in the Senate, he said: “Well we are unusual, we don’t like them, we don’t like this budget and we aren’t going to talk to them.”

The stance, if adhered to, would put in doubt any legislation the government sought to pass through the new Senate – which sits from 1 July – that was opposed by Labor and the Greens.

The PUP has said it will oppose the changes to unemployment benefits, the $7 Medicare co-payment and the changes to the indexation rate for the pension and the increase to the pension age. All these measures are also opposed by Labor and the Greens.

The move to allow through the freeze on family benefit rates comes after Labor also confirmed it would not oppose the “temporary budget repair levy” – the two-year 2% income tax increase for those earning more than $180,000 a year, which would raise $3bn.

Labor may also support, at least in part, a separate budget measure to freeze eligibility thresholds for all government payments for three years. In government Labor froze the eligibility thresholds for family payments, a move Tony Abbott initially called “class warfare” although he eventually waved the savings measure through.

But Labor has said it will oppose separate plans in the Abbott government’s first budget to stop single-income family payments when the youngest child turns six, as well as the budget’s proposed changes to unemployment benefits, higher education, pensions and the Medicare co-payment.

As it prepares for negotiations to try to get its key budget measures through the upper house, the government has labelled Labor’s stance irresponsible.

Christopher Pyne, the leader of the government in the house of representatives, told the ABC: “Labor are like the people that started the fire and then when the fire brigade turns up to put it out, they try and mug the firefighters. I think the public see them for that, I am sure the Senate, when the legislation reaches the Senate, will go into the negotiation phase that is the hallmark of our democracy and I'm confident that they will see the benefits of the government's plan to repair the budget debt and deficit disaster left to us by Labor and I assure that once they've seen that, they'll be much more supportive of it than they sound at the moment.”

Labor has said it will oppose the reindexation of fuel excise, leaving the fate of that decision – which would raise $2.2bn over the next four years – in the hands of the greens, who support it in principle but are uncomfortable with the proceeds being hypothecated towards road funding, while the federal government hands responsibility for public transport funding to the states.

Palmer said he had had an initial discussion with the government about the repeal of the carbon and mining taxes but he had heard nothing back.

The health minister, Peter Dutton, said that by opposing the Medicare co-payment, Labor and the independents were “abandoning Medicare”.

“The independents in the Senate need to decide whether or not they support Medicare and if they support Medicare and they want Medicare into the future they have to support this package because at the moment Medicare having grown 42% over the last five years, having gone from $8bn a year 10 years ago to $20bn a year now … so that’s the decision for the senators – do they support Medicare and the strengthening of Medicare going forward because the Labor party clearly has abandoned Medicare,” Dutton said.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/26/labor-agrees-to-family-benefits-freeze-as-clive-palmer-stonewalls-coalition?commentpage=1
 
Maybe he thinks that if he can force a double dissolution election, he can profit from the dissatisfaction with both major parties and gain even more power in the senate, and more seats in the lower house?
 
Wildride said:
Maybe he thinks that if he can force a double dissolution election, he can profit from the dissatisfaction with both major parties and gain even more power in the senate, and more seats in the lower house?

He'd certainly benefit from a DD. You may well be on the money there WR, although it would seem to be an unlikely event. If the LNP and Palmer are in a face off however, Palmer doesn't seem to be the type who'd blink.
 
Hard to read what Mrs Palmer's thinking, let alone Big Clive. One thing is certain, however .. He'll have his own best interests as his primary, secondary and tertiary considerations.
 
I heard from a Sex Party candidate that one of their platforms going into the next election will be to change pollies pays in line with average Australian annual salary (approx $70k) and that many of the minor parties will also endorse this move.

Would be an interesting move. We shall see......
 
Ouch, that'll get some traction I reckon Tim. If they want to double-down they should also campaign on the establishment of a federal independent commission against corruption.
 
I actually think that pollies should be paid more than the average wage, by a reasonable amount too but I think they should scrap the mass of benefits they get 'post work'. I mean a car, free travel, an office, a secretary, all on top of a very very very generous 'pension' scheme.

As for the federal ICAC, bring it on!