Talking Politics

[Giardiasis]

Pollies of all persuasions lie/change their mind.
Very rarely tho does a Pollie or party do it so obviously or as brazenly or as consistently as the present gov.
On any and every issue where they thought Labor had an advantage they changed their policy so they wouldn't risk votes. Now after the election they are trying to claim it doesn't matter what they said before the election.

Forgot the carbon dioxide tax already?

 

[KnightersRevenge]

You said we voted him in, we get what we deserve, as if we had the choice to choose a leader that would be different?

My take on what Baloo said is that the PM told us in explicit terms in an interview well before the election that his word is not to be taken literally. Taken to its extreme, he said he lies. Enough Australians voted for his party knowing that would make him the PM with the knowledge that he lies. So it would be strange for people to be surprised that he lies, given that he told us he does. That is what I took from Baloo's statement that we got what we deserved.

For the record: I voted below the line and preferenced away from both major parties.

 

[Azza]

Forgot the carbon dioxide tax already?

If that's the best you've got as a moral equivalency, it's pretty lame.

I agree with Baloo that people who voted for Abbott shouldn't be surprised at the budget. Despite his lies, all the signs were there before the election.

 

[tigersnake]

Forgot the carbon dioxide tax already?

You've completely missed Brodder's point there. Abbott campaigned loudly, relentlessly and almost solely focussed on being anti-lie. The ALP didn't.

Also G you paying zero attention to EXTENT of lies. Extent matters. All politicians lie, or respond differently to new circumstances, but this is a new ball game. I've never seen anything like it, and the analysis is generally saying the same.

Its a double whammy, 1, the relentless message that lies are bad, 2. the off-the-scale level of lying

(Another key point that I made earlier, the difference between Gillard's CT lie and Abbotts lies, JG's lie upset the big boys, Abbott's lies please the big boys. Key difference that nobody has picked up on that I've seen.)

 

[KnightersRevenge]

You've completely missed Brodder's point there. Abbott campaigned loudly, relentlessly and almost solely focussed on being anti-lie. The ALP didn't.

Also G you paying zero attention to EXTENT of lies. Extent matters. All politicians lie, or respond differently to new circumstances, but this is a new ball game. I've never seen anything like it, and the analysis is generally saying the same.

Its a double whammy, 1, the relentless message that lies are bad, 2. the off-the-scale level of lying

(Another key point that I made earlier, the difference between Gillard's CT lie and Abbotts lies, JG's lie upset the big boys, Abbott's lies please the big boys. Key difference that nobody has picked up on that I've seen.)

The PM seems to have a red-herring generator buried in his budgie smugglers. He just keeps throwing them up and the media and Labor are hopping from one to the next afraid to let one go through to the keeper in case it's the one that gets him. It's a genius move.

 

[Azza]

(Another key point that I made earlier, the difference between Gillard's CT lie and Abbotts lies, JG's lie upset the big boys, Abbott's lies please the big boys. Key difference that nobody has picked up on that I've seen.)

Not forgetting that unlike Abbotts lies, the carbon tax (whether it can even be considered a lie) was in the context of satisfying a coalition partner in a minority government.

 

[lukeanddad]

(Another key point that I made earlier, the difference between Gillard's CT lie and Abbotts lies, JG's lie upset the big boys, Abbott's lies please the big boys. Key difference that nobody has picked up on that I've seen.)

Yes, but what point are you making TS? If this infers that Abbott's lies are somehow forgiven/accepted, I am probably not consuming the same media as you are. If anything, Abbott is being hammered longer and harder than JG ever was. And I don't think JG had to deal with Sarah Hanson Young's drivel from the bleachers.

 

[tigersnake]

Yes, but what point are you making TS? If this infers that Abbott's lies are somehow forgiven/accepted, I am probably not consuming the same media as you are. If anything, Abbott is being hammered longer and harder than JG ever was. And I don't think JG had to deal with Sarah Hanson Young's drivel from the bleachers.

Point is JG was relentlessly hounded by Abbott, which only worked because the press supplied him with ample non-stop oxygen, the Murdoch press mostly. Whereas even though the Abbott lies are being mentioned and talked about a lot, its not getting the same intensity of coverage, its half-arsed in relation to the event, like 'oh I guess we can't avoid covering this'. Its just my impression.

So don't agree i guess. But the media and the people are two different things. Massive and obvious backing from super rich media barons doesn't always work. And its not working at the moment. People are very angry, the commercial media are acting just peeved.

Bottom line, that is my exact inference, Abbott's lies are forgiven/ accepted, at least by the big boys, who will try and influence the people as best they can. Currently it isn't easy for them to do.

edit: remember Abbott is doing Murdoch's bidding, paying back favours, by canning the ABC asia network to take out the competion for his Sky network, which was getting its arse kicked by superior opposition. A lot of analysts have written about it)

 

[lukeanddad]

Point is JG was relentlessly hounded by Abbott, which only worked because the press supplied him with ample non-stop oxygen, the Murdoch press mostly. Whereas even though the Abbott lies are being mentioned and talked about a lot, its not getting the same intensity of coverage, its half-arsed in relation to the event, like 'oh I guess we can't avoid covering this'. Its just my impression.

So don't agree i guess. But the media and the people are two different things. Massive and obvious backing from super rich media barons doesn't always work. And its not working at the moment. People are very angry, the commercial media are acting just peeved.

Bottom line, that is my exact inference, Abbott's lies are forgiven/ accepted, at least by the big boys, who will try and influence the people as best they can. Currently it isn't easy for them to do.

edit: remember Abbott is doing Murdoch's bidding, paying back favours, by canning the ABC asia network to take out the competion for his Sky network, which was getting its arse kicked by superior opposition. A lot of analysts have written about it)

OK. I don't read Murdoch other than Saturday Oz and yes, it is one dimensional. However, I listen to ABC on the way home from work and although a couple of them try, it is also pretty one-dimensional.

And I know this is heresy in some quarters, but remind me why a government (ie us) needs to own a media network?

 

[Brodders17]

The PM seems to have a red-herring generator buried in his budgie smugglers. He just keeps throwing them up and the media and Labor are hopping from one to the next afraid to let one go through to the keeper in case it's the one that gets him. It's a genius move.

you might be onto something here, but rather than the lies being a distraction from the other lies, perhaps the lies are to take focus away from their actual policies, some of which are terrible.

 

[Brodders17]

Forgot the carbon dioxide tax already?

my view is that Gillard changed her mind as circumstances changed.
my view is that Abbott deliberately misled the public on many policy areas.
IMO these are 2 very different things.

I would compare the 'carbon tax' to the probable end result of Abbott's paid parental leave scheme. he went to the election telling people that new mums (or dads) could receive up to $75,000 of taxpayers money, non-means tested, when they went on leave. it looks like this wont be the case.
do i think Abbott lied before the election? no, but circumstances wont allow him to pass his plan so he will compromise. same as Gillard.

 

[Azza]

Petition for a federal ICAC equivalent.

http://www.change.org/en-AU/petitions/all-federal-politicians-set-up-a-strong-federal-anti-corruption-watchdog-now

 

[tigersnake]

And I know this is heresy in some quarters, but remind me why a government (ie us) needs to own a media network?

Not heresy at all. EiDT, you were talking about the Asia network right? If you were talking about our national network I personally think that is heresy.

But the reason is a ye olde notion of global good citizenship, regional aid, 'soft diplomacy' as its called. Thats the feel-good part. Second part is the brutal economics. We, if you believe the network was a good thing that is, got incredible bang for buck. The Asia network was $10 mill, a shoestring, it had amazing penetration, and just landed preferred status in China after working on it for years, huge (Sky was bulk p!ssed off). A lot of very dry economists reckoned the returns in terms of building relationships and understanding, culture, business, tourism, trade, was huge, off the scale.

BUT, the ABC is a vipers nest of lefties who dare to hold the government to account, and also compete with their built-themselves-up-from-the-bootstraps tycoon mates, so its gotta go right?

 

[lukeanddad]

BUT, the ABC is a vipers nest of lefties who dare to hold the conservative government to account, and also compete with their built-themselves-up-from-the-bootstraps tycoon mates, so its gotta go right?

Just a quick tidy up. Hope that's ok?

Frankly, I couldn't care less if they were rabidly right or left, I am just not sure why a government - any government - needs to pay for this.

 

[tigersnake]

Just a quick tidy up. Hope that's ok?

Frankly, I couldn't care less if they were rabidly right or left, I am just not sure why a government - any government - needs to pay for this.

Well I've explained the logic as the supporters see it, you don't have to agree with it.

Are you saying the ABC doesn't hold ALP government's to account? If so we disgaree on that

 

[tigergollywog]

have I got this straight L&D ... you cant see why govt should have an independent media outlet?

Excuse me while I extrapolate your logic to a footy analogy .... you are advocating all the umps in the AFL being on Collingwood's payroll.

 

[tigersnake]

have I got this straight L&D ... you cant see why govt should have an independent media outlet?

Excuse me while I extrapolate your logic to a footy analogy .... you are advocating all the umps in the AFL being on Collingwood's payroll.

I think lukey was talking about the asia network, which is a whole different arggument and rationale

 

[tigergollywog]

Fair enough. I came in late and misunderstood. Why do we need an asia network? play a heap of chariots of fire reruns and fool the chinese we arent all fat and lazy?

The PM seems to have a red-herring generator buried in his budgie smugglers.

Knightsy busts out some allegorical gold. Thats going straight to the pool room.

 

[tigersnake]

Like I said, all the ABC does is scrutinise the government, hold it to account. The Libs hate it because their policies don't stand up to scrutiny. Hamstrining the ABC for the sake of a measley $35 mill. (I won't even talk about the $245 mill to the school chaplains, separation of church and state? forghettaboutit). I personally find it sad, and pathetic on behalf of the government. This new breed of conservatives are dumb, paranoid, intolerant and mean spirited. They don't care about the country or society, they just care about money and privilege.

http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/abc-redundancy-process-to-begin-within-weeks-as-management-responds-to-federal-budget-cuts-20140528-3948k.html

can you believe this? the Libs are still hysterical about a comedy skit hanging *smile* on one of their brethren, who is a second-, no third-rate yap-dog, pathetic. Thats what genuinely dismays and surprises me, how soft they are.

thankfully I think they're pushing the extreme neo-con barrow too hard too quick, and they'll be gone in a term. The ALP have to get their sh!t together, or at least half together. Not taking that for granted either. But at least they'll fund the ABC and education so the rate of dumbing down of the country slows a bit.

 

[AngryAnt]

I think lukey was talking about the asia network, which is a whole different arggument and rationale

I don't think so. The ABC is a media network which the government owns - I think Lukey was challenging that.