Talking Politics | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Talking Politics

It speaks volumes for the integrity of Australian politics that neither Labor nor the LNP support a federal ICAC.
 
Giardiasis said:
Are you suggesting that any of the alternatives would be any different in this respect? i.e. say one thing, do another.
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I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion.
 
Giardiasis said:
You said we voted him in, we get what we deserve, as if we had the choice to choose a leader that would be different?
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If we voted for a different party we would have had a different leader and I doubt they would have been the same as Abbott. He's a rare breed, one of a kind.
 
Baloo said:
If we voted for a different party we would have had a different leader and I doubt they would have been the same as Abbott. He's a rare breed, one of a kind.
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Different in that they wouldn't say one thing, and do another?
 
I didn't suggest that a politician would say one thing and do another. I'm not sure anyone in their right mind would say that. I'm not sure what you are trying to get at nor why you would assume that is what I was trying to suggest.
 
Baloo said:
I didn't suggest that a politician would say one thing and do another. I'm not sure anyone in their right mind would say that.
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Suggesting politicians say one thing (i.e. we won't increase taxes), and do another (i.e. increase taxes) is not an unusual thing for someone to say. In any case, that is not the point I'm trying to get at.

Baloo said:
it's surprising people are surprised by Abbott's unsurprising lying. He admitted he lies on National TV before being elected. He has a track record of saying what needs to be said to suit his agenda at the time, even if its a complete reversal of a previous policy, statement, ideal.

That this government is going to do what it wants regardless of what has been promised is the only certainty we have.
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As you can see, you did indeed suggest this. In any case I have no issue with what you have said above. In fact I agree with it.

I do however take issue with this following statement:

Baloo said:
And we voted him in. We get what we deserve.
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To me, this suggests that you think that it is the voters fault for voting in someone who says one thing, and does another. As if people had the choice of choosing someone who would not say one thing, and do another. I'd argue that there exist no candidates in our polity that do not share this same affliction that Abbott suffers from.

Hence, I'm keen to know for sure if you disagree with my argument here. However it seems to me that you think there do indeed exist candidates that people could have voted for that would never break an election promise. I'm curious to learn who.
 
Giardiasis said:
To me, this suggests that you think that it is the voters fault for voting in someone who says one thing, and does another. As if people had the choice of choosing someone who would not say one thing, and do another. I'd argue that there exist no candidates in our polity that do not share this same affliction that Abbott suffers from.
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Enjoy your work, G
 
Giardiasis said:
Suggesting politicians say one thing (i.e. we won't increase taxes), and do another (i.e. increase taxes) is not an unusual thing for someone to say. In any case, that is not the point I'm trying to get at.
As you can see, you did indeed suggest this. In any case I have no issue with what you have said above. In fact I agree with it.

I do however take issue with this following statement:
To me, this suggests that you think that it is the voters fault for voting in someone who says one thing, and does another. As if people had the choice of choosing someone who would not say one thing, and do another. I'd argue that there exist no candidates in our polity that do not share this same affliction that Abbott suffers from.

Hence, I'm keen to know for sure if you disagree with my argument here. However it seems to me that you think there do indeed exist candidates that people could have voted for that would never break an election promise. I'm curious to learn who.
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There are degrees. Abbott is an extreme as he never had my intention of trying to keep promises and had admitted before hand he shouldn't be trusted. My commentary was on the surprise of the population that Abbott is so blatant.

That's not to say all politicians lie as badly as Abbott, nor that they don't lie.

The fact we don't have a better class of candidates to choose from is again our own fault. If we allow them to get away with this crap they've been dishing up for decades then they will keep doing it.
 
Baloo said:
There are degrees. Abbott is an extreme as he never had my intention of trying to keep promises and had admitted before hand he shouldn't be trusted. My commentary was on the surprise of the population that Abbott is so blatant.

That's not to say all politicians lie as badly as Abbott, nor that they don't lie.

The fact we don't have a better class of candidates to choose from is again our own fault. If we allow them to get away with this crap they've been dishing up for decades then they will keep doing it.
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Fair enough, so I guess you put through an informal vote then? I did.
 
Giardiasis said:
Fair enough, so I guess you put through an informal vote then? I did.
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The last election is the first time I decided not to vote. Being OS means I dont get fined.
 
Voting informal or not voting changes nothing either, though.

At a meta level, Giardiasis is right - our system of representative democracy means that we get professional, career politicians who will lie cheat and steal to get into office - and then once in won't rock the boat too much.

At a detail level there are many differences between say a Gillard and an Abbot and these differences to have real consequences in terms of policy and taxes etc. So Baloo is also right.

I haven't voted in an election for about 8 years due to frequent moves and being lazy. Copped a fine the other year though.
 
antman said:
Voting informal or not voting changes nothing either, though.
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Correct, individually we can't change squat. Elite control is exercised via a dialectic utilising dominant social themes. Pretty hard to individually affect change through the use of persuasive argument, just look how hard it is to change minds on this forum!
 
Loved the way big Clive has done away with the free Comcar. He drove himself to work.
A very nice Roller he has too.

Surely he could have grabbed a ute. Lots more votes in Utes, than rollers.

He looked like a retired plumber in that car
 
antman said:
Voting informal or not voting changes nothing either, though.
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Yup, except for some satisfaction that neither side is getting your vote.

Best to preference away from both major parties. A bit pointless in most electorates ATM, but maybe one day other voters will realise what a ride they're being taken for and start to hold the majors to account.
 
Giardiasis said:
Different in that they wouldn't say one thing, and do another?
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Pollies of all persuasions lie/change their mind.
Very rarely tho does a Pollie or party do it so obviously or as brazenly or as consistently as the present gov.
On any and every issue where they thought Labor had an advantage they changed their policy so they wouldn't risk votes. Now after the election they are trying to claim it doesn't matter what they said before the election.
 
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