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Talking Politics
- Thread starter Legends of 2017
- Start date
What would happen if I didn't pay my taxes? The police would attempt to arrest me. What if I resisted arrest? A gun would be pointed at my head. Do you deny this?Sintiger said:
The Coalition seem to get off light to me.
they got in on 3 key things.
1 Fixing the Budget deficit emergency - they have doubled the budget deficit.
2. Deliver Stable government and the promise that they don't knife sitting PMs - they knifed a sitting PM.
3. Axing the (carbon) Tax - they did this, so its a prima facie tick. but no real scrutiny, discussion or comprehension in the electorate that the tax was actually working better than even optimists expected and was causing zero angst to regular people, and that the coalition 'direct action' alternative is woefully inadequate, expensive and dumb policy, just ask any disinterested learned observer.
So prima facie, 1 out of 3.
by any rational economic and ecological analysis, 3 strikes
That's not even brining all their well documented list of broken promise-anything-to-get-into-power funding promises.
they got in on 3 key things.
1 Fixing the Budget deficit emergency - they have doubled the budget deficit.
2. Deliver Stable government and the promise that they don't knife sitting PMs - they knifed a sitting PM.
3. Axing the (carbon) Tax - they did this, so its a prima facie tick. but no real scrutiny, discussion or comprehension in the electorate that the tax was actually working better than even optimists expected and was causing zero angst to regular people, and that the coalition 'direct action' alternative is woefully inadequate, expensive and dumb policy, just ask any disinterested learned observer.
So prima facie, 1 out of 3.
by any rational economic and ecological analysis, 3 strikes
That's not even brining all their well documented list of broken promise-anything-to-get-into-power funding promises.
Baloo said:
The Libs just seem much better at getting traction by repeating dumb slogans with questionable merit. Like 'the budget emergency' (if it was then, what is it now?), 'axe the tax', (doesn't matter what the tax is trying to achieve, how effective it is, how it is impacting people, who it is impacting, its just a tax, so its gotta be axed).
Labor have tried it, not sure why they don't get the same traction. They should be able to come up with some good ones surely. They have released some half decent policies, but not slogans 'Negative gearing kills the Aussie Dream', no, no good too many words. 'The Libs will white ant medicare'. No good again. 'more money for schools' nuh, 4 words. Maybe that's it, they can't fit their policies into three words?
Malcolm Abbott or Tony Turnbull would be a catchy phrase to use. Linking MitM to Abbott. MediCare to MediCash another one that could stick. Negative Gearing is Negative Housing. Might work as well.
ALP is just too disorganised to run this country IMHO.
ALP is just too disorganised to run this country IMHO.
It matters to me. I don't think Labor are that great, but they are streets ahead of the Coalition. You talk disorganisation Baloo? Most of the party don't like Turnbull, they have stuffed up the NBN so badly purely due to political spite, been hopeless on infrastructure, and their whole platform rests on giving a corporate tax cut that will half go overseas. Turnbull presents well though, thats all they've got
tigersnake said:
Jobs and Growth. Rhymes with Stop the Boats.
This last Coalition term in government has been great for the Lulz but apart from that.. the Abbott and Peta show with memorable for Captain's Picks and a knighthood for Prince Phillip.. and then the non-entity that has been Malcolm. ScoMo, Chris "the Fixer" Pyne, Dutton, and Ms Asbestos Bishop.. surely the most uninspiring Front Bench of ever. Oh forgot Matthias Cormann but hey, easy to do.
Bill Shorten is possibly the weirdest looking and awkward git around but he deserves a run ahead of that mob.
tigersnake said:
Not true. If most of the party didn't like MitM he wouldn't be the leader.
NBN is a stuff up but if you remember MitM is a tech savvy bloke. The Coalition NBN solution was an Abbott plan and he put MitM to oversee it to try and eject MitM. It will get fixed soon enough no matter who wins
I still feel MitM, with his business achievements, is the best candidate to be PM at the moment. Hopefully an elected win will quiet down the Tea Party mob, or at least turn them into nothing but an annoying lunatic fringe with no bite.
I am a true swing voter in that I have voted for both sides more than once. In this instance I prefer to give Malcolm a real shot at it. Shorten for me owes the unions too much and will do their bidding. But we'll see I guess.
Surely the "Brexit" campaign has taught us that politics has become so tainted as to be virtually pointless. Politicians now speak almost entirely in "newsspeak". Language has been bastardised to such a degree as to be now the opposite of what it evolved for; namely to transmit information. Politispeak is now a vehicle of disinformation. It is a contest to see who can say the least with the most words. Politicians answer simple questions with meandering and incoherent ramblings so that everyone has forgotten what the question was by the time they get to the end. Everyone except the journalist (if they are any good) but they both know the journo has limited time and so using it up means they have to move on at the expense of any meaningful discourse and the "news editor" will cut it out and find a grab to be repeated ad nauseum anyway.
I hate them all.
ullhair ullhair ullhair
:duh :duh :duh
:happy :happy :happy
I hate them all.
ullhair ullhair ullhair :duh :duh :duh
:happy :happy :happy
Baloo said:
MT was the minister in charge of the NBN. On every front, except 'stopping the boats' if thats your thing, they have failed dismally. NBN, the budget, built nothing, they are particularly bad on the environment, I thought they'd be bad but I overestimated them.
I just don't get this 'competent image' thing. It perplexes me, (with the odd exception but Abbott got in), that people would vote that way. They are all politicians, they all implement policies and stuff up on occasion. It should be about policies, thats it. The Union thing I can understand to some extent, I just think its overstated in this case, considering the above.
Baloo said:
No, Malcolm is the leader because they had to dump Abbott and he was the only prospect. 3/4 of his own party see him as too left.
He won't fix the NBN and Labor might not either. He can't change the plan he implemented and Labor can't commit billions more dollars to fix the Frankenstein's monster that Mal created. Politics beats tech savvy every day of the week unfortunately.
antman said:
The ALP have said its too far gone to go back to their original NBN plan, their policy is 20% more fibre to the home than will currently happen, whatever that is. The
Baloo said:
I don't want government to mimic business. I want a return to government that serves the people and society first. If business could provide all the needs of society at all levels government would be unneccessary but that is a Giardisis-like pipe dream. Government used to look 20-50 years down the road and take on public works to provide the infrastructure in advance of the need for it.
The NBN was such a project. The implementation by Labor was cumbersome and overly heavy on hardware at the consumer end, it could easily have been fixed by stopping at the edge of the premisis and letting the consumer buy the neccessary hardware to avail of it, just as they do now. What Abbott/Turnbull did is way OTT.
But there should be many more large scale public works that provide employment and forward thinking. Water infrastructure, solar plants, rail projects, public transport, space exploration.
Malcolm thinks like a businessman and that is how conservatives think government should work. Small scale. Low cost. Balance the books. Give business a free arm to do the work they think is acheivable and profitable.
This is a direct quote from you " You can't get away from the fact that you value something (i.e. foreign aid), you want others to pay for it, and you're willing to hold a gun to their head to make sure they do so. You accuse others of greed, yet how much greedier can you get to condone theft for your own purposes?"Giardiasis said:
You said I am willing to hold a gun to people's heads, don't confuse this with police and taxation. It is offensive. I have never held a gun to anyone's head, in fact I have never held a gun !!!
In the end it is just where individuals draw the line. You yourself have said (I believe) that Government's should only exist to enforce property rights and for defence, so I take from that you are not an anarchist. If that is true and the Government exists in your utopian world then it must get funding from somewhere, I assume from taxes. In that world what would happen if someone didn't pay taxes to fund the Government to enforce property rights ? Would they get arrested or is that optional?
The fact is all we are talking about is the role of Government and therefore the size of the taxes to fund that role. The only alternative to some form of Government funded by the people is anarchy.
The ultimate conclusion of your view is that if there is any Government at all then any taxes are theft. We are only talking about the size of the theft and what the stolen money is used for.
Baloo said:
Yes and no. On balance unions have been a force for good, unless you own a business maybe. But even then, better conditions boosts productivity and enables people to buy more stuff, which helps the economy etc etc. Yes Unions have been corrupt, but I'd argue nothing on big business, drop n the ocean in terms of impact. But who gets more coverage?
I'm not rusted on though. I was raised by rusted-on working class parents, and I left school and did a trade at 15 before going back to school and uni. Now, I think the big handbrake on Aus political progress now are the level of union influence on the ALP. The Coalition will always be the coalition, they never change, the ALP just have to be OK the win, its sad but true, but they struggle to do that. Union membership in society is 30-odd%, in the ALP the influence is 70-odd percent. They have to fix that, full stop, they have to better represent society.
Its a free country baloo you can vote for whoever you want, but this is a political discussion thread, we enter expecting to be challenged, annoyed and entertained.