Terrorist attacks in Paris | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Terrorist attacks in Paris

YinnarTiger

Tiger Legend
May 2, 2007
7,544
732
75
Gippsland
saigon tiger said:
Islamic state sounds pretty similiar to Islam must be some connection!

People who refer to Daesh as Islamic State have been entrapped by Daesh's propaganda.

Daesh is neither Islamic nor a state.

If you call them Islamic State, ISIS or ISIL you are indirectly legitimizing them.

They hate being referred to as Daesh.
 

mrposhman

Tiger Legend
Oct 6, 2013
18,183
21,977
YinnarTiger said:
People who refer to Daesh as Islamic State have been entrapped by Daesh's propaganda.

Daesh is neither Islamic nor a state.

If you call them Islamic State, ISIS or ISIL you are indirectly legitimizing them.

They hate being referred to as Daesh.

Like it or not, Daesh are Islamic. Their members are all Islamic or converts to Islam. That they are entrenched in an extreme version of Islam does not mean they are not Islamic. What people need to ensure though is that they do not scapegoat all muslims with the same brush.

Its the same as Christianity and the version of Christianity that some people follow, for instance white supremisists and the KKK.
 

mrposhman

Tiger Legend
Oct 6, 2013
18,183
21,977
YinnarTiger said:
Calling KKK and white supremacists Christian is just as silly as calling Daesh Islamic.

Like it or not, their ideologies are broadly based on parts of the Qu'ran and the Bible. The fact that they completely ignore parts of them and only focus on the extreme parts is what makes them differ from the vast majority of Muslims and Christians.
 

YinnarTiger

Tiger Legend
May 2, 2007
7,544
732
75
Gippsland
mrposhman said:
Like it or not, their ideologies are broadly based on parts of the Qu'ran and the Bible. The fact that they completely ignore parts of them and only focus on the extreme parts is what makes them differ from the vast majority of Muslims and Christians.
Using that sort of logic I reckon I could mount a proof that Malcolm Fraser was a Marxist.
 

gutfull

Tiger Superstar
Jul 6, 2013
2,192
375
waiting said:
mrposhman you may have a valid point too!

Are they an easier target though? They have had what three terrorist " events the past year?

120 dead the latest I'm hearing.

Sad

Lets see if the Muslim community DENOUNCE this attack !! Hope they do so !! Bet they don't !!!
 

Baloo

Delisted Free Agent
Nov 8, 2005
44,179
19,054
gutfull said:
Lets see if the Muslim community DENOUNCE this attack !! Hope they do so !! Bet they don't !!!

You should read a bit. They have, multiple communities in multiple countries. A bit like Catholic communities the world over we're denouncing IRA bombings.
 

gutfull

Tiger Superstar
Jul 6, 2013
2,192
375
Baloo your a comic at the key board , and no doubt a lover of their community...Bet you have NEVER lived in an Islamic State ? I HAVE .Bet you never dated a Muslim Lady mate ? I have .Bet you know Jack *smile* about them or there culture ?

You need to do 1 or all of the above before you tell me to read a bit PAL......
 

tigersnake

Tear 'em apart
Sep 10, 2003
23,797
12,365
I believe the causes are economic rather than religious or cultural. Population keeps growing, and inequality keeps growing. Middle class shrinking, underclass growing. I read yesterday the richest 80 people have more money than the poorest 25% of the global population. May have been more actually, it was over 2.5 billion people. Something has to give on inequality for any positive change to happen.
 

tigersnake

Tear 'em apart
Sep 10, 2003
23,797
12,365
gutfull said:
Baloo your a comic at the key board , and no doubt a lover of their community...Bet you have NEVER lived in an Islamic State ? I HAVE .Bet you never dated a Muslim Lady mate ? I have .Bet you know Jack sh!t about them or there culture ?

You need to do 1 or all of the above before you tell me to read a bit PAL......

?
 

Baloo

Delisted Free Agent
Nov 8, 2005
44,179
19,054
gutfull said:
Baloo your a comic at the key board , and no doubt a lover of their community...Bet you have NEVER lived in an Islamic State ? I HAVE .Bet you never dated a Muslim Lady mate ? I have .Bet you know Jack sh!t about them or there culture ?

You need to do 1 or all of the above before you tell me to read a bit PAL......

Depends on your definition of an Islamic state really. Never lived in the Middle East but I've lived in Muslim countries in Asia. And I've dated more than a couple Muslim girls. Spent plenty of fun times every year as a guest in Muslims households during Hari Raya. So you've just lost that bet. Can't win one tonight can you.

Now, back to the point. You asked if Muslims communities would denounce the attacks. Just spend a bit of time reading the international news agencies and you'll see they already have. As they have all terrorist attacks where the terrorists have used Islam as their reason for being.
 

saigon tiger

Tiger Superstar
Jun 4, 2010
2,396
1,222
tigersnake said:
I believe the causes are economic rather than religious or cultural. Population keeps growing, and inequality keeps growing. Middle class shrinking, underclass growing. I read yesterday the richest 80 people have more money than the poorest 25% of the global population. May have been more actually, it was over 2.5 billion people. Something has to give on inequality for any positive change to happen.

Im a firm believer in this train of thought! The inequalities of wealth in the world will cause lots of future unrest.
 

waiting

Tiger Legend
Apr 15, 2007
14,058
9,171
Victoria
129 dead
Over 350 injured
Nearly 100 critically

I was talking about an issue that I'm going to raise now in the light that one of the terrorist got through border from Syria?

Our concerns is that how does our country and other countries across the world tackle this humanitarian issue with the threat that people can slip through the cracks as a refugee but their motive is more sinister!

Our intelligence , European countries intelligence and others are going to play a major part in the future. There may always be occasions where it will be impossible until after the event.

Our involvement to assist the USA , France, UK and our other Allies may only makes a possible hate target in the future.

We can't live in fear to our freedom and way of life.

I hope I haven't upset any people of Syrian background or have family there. It's just something brought up in conversation last night watching the events in Paris.
 

BT Tiger

Moderator
Staff member
Jun 5, 2005
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Warragul
tigersnake said:
I believe the causes are economic rather than religious or cultural. Population keeps growing, and inequality keeps growing. Middle class shrinking, underclass growing. I read yesterday the richest 80 people have more money than the poorest 25% of the global population. May have been more actually, it was over 2.5 billion people. Something has to give on inequality for any positive change to happen.

I think u might be referring to the 80/20 rule where 80% of the world's wealth is owned by less than 20% of the population.
 

Sintiger

Tiger Legend
Aug 11, 2010
18,643
18,748
Camberwell
The whole situation makes me sad and angry and there is no easy answer to this but I know that the answer is not exclusion. The vast majority of the 11 million or so refugees from this war are escaping from the exact same people who are behind the Paris massacres. They have the same enemy we have. The answer cannot be that we don't share the fight with them, that we exclude them, that we see their loss as any less than our own.

I was talking to a muslim woman yesterday morning of Lebanese background. With tears in her eyes she told me that she cannot understand what is happening and that they were nothing but grateful for the way of life they have in Australia. We cannot isolate people like that, it will make the situation worse not better.

This article in Al Jazeera sums up how so many muslims feel.

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2015/11/je-suis-muslim-151114163033918.html

Je suis Muslim
I wish to join the march of humanity on every corner of this fragile earth against barbarism as a Muslim and a human.


Hamid Dabashi is the Hagop Kevorkian Professor of Iranian Studies and Comparative Literature at Columbia University.

@HamidDabashi

I am a Muslim. As a Muslim, I wish to pay my respect to those Parisians who lost their lives on that terrifying night on November 13. As a Muslim, I wish to express my condolences to all those who have lost a loved one during this diabolic attack in Paris. As a Muslim, I wish to express my solidarity with the French people suffering now the trauma of this murderous mayhem perpetrated on innocent people.

As a Muslim, I wish to denounce any and all acts of genocidal, homicidal, and suicidal violence, anywhere in the world; and in particular, I wish to denounce the criminal gangs gathered under the flag of "Islamic State" or any other similar group terrorising innocent people from India, Afghanistan and Pakistan to Iraq and Syria, from North Africa to Turkey, and from the Arab and Muslim world to Europe and the US.
World leaders condemn deadly attacks in Paris

I wish to ask, can a Muslim today say that she or he is a Muslim, and then say what I just said? Am I - and millions of other Muslims like me - allowed to express our sympathies, solidarities, and sorrows on this horrific occasion, and do so from the innermost depth of our humanities as Muslims?

In a speech expressing his solidarity and sympathy with the French, US President Barack Obama said, "This is an attack not just on Paris, its attack not just on the people of France, but this is an attack on all of humanity and the universal values that we share."

Of course, the attack on the French is an attack on humanity, but is an attack on a Lebanese, an Afghan, a Yazidi, a Kurd, and Iraqi, a Somali, or a Palestinian any less an attack "on all of humanity and the universal values that we share"? What is it exactly that a North American and a French share that the rest of humanity are denied sharing?

In his speech, UK Prime Minister David Cameron, speaking as a European, was emphatic about "our way of life", and then addressing the French he added, "Your values are our values, your pain is our pain, your fight is our fight, and together, we will defeat these terrorists."

What exactly are these French and British values? Can-may, a Muslim share them too - while a Muslim? Or must she or he first denounce being a Muslim and become French or British before sharing those values?

These are loaded terms, civilisational terms, and culturally coded registers. Both Obama and Cameron opt to choose terms that decidedly and deliberately turn me and millions of Muslims like me to their civilisational other.

Today, Muslims have replaced those Jews and become the civilisational other of Europe, and these heads of states, Obama and Cameron, on this particularly traumatic moment in Paris, perpetuate that demonisation by casting Muslims as Muslims outside the purview of humanity.

They make it impossible for me to remain the Muslim that I am and join them and millions of other people in the US and the UK and the EU in sympathy and solidarity with the suffering of the French.

As a Muslim I defy their provincialism, and I declare my sympathy and solidarity with the French; and I do so, decidedly, pointedly, defiantly, as a Muslim.

When Arabs or Muslims die in the hands of the selfsame criminal Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) gangs in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, or Lebanon, they are reduced to their lowest common denominator and presumed sectarian denominations, overcoming and camouflaging our humanity. But when French or British or US citizens are murdered, they are raised to their highest common abstractions and become the universal icons of humanity at large.

Why? Are we Muslims not human? Does the murder of one of us not constitute harm to the entire body of humanity?

I am who I am

Some 400 years ago, in his Merchant of Venice, William Shakespeare turned the internally demonised other of the European Christianity - the European Jew - into a figure of defiance against systematic stigmatisation and allowed his Shylock character to cry out loud:

"I am a Jew. Hath not a Jew eyes? Hath not a Jew hands, organs, dimensions, senses, affections, passions? Fed with the same food, hurt with the same weapons, subject to the same diseases, healed by the same means, warmed and cooled by the same winter and summer, as a Christian is? If you prick us, do we not bleed? If you tickle us, do we not laugh? If you poison us, do we not die?"

Today, Muslims have replaced those Jews and become the civilisational other of Europe, and these heads of states - Obama and Cameron - on this particularly traumatic moment in Paris, perpetuate that demonisation by casting Muslims as Muslims outside the purview of humanity.

By doing so, they are making it impossible for Muslims to remain Muslims and join in the universal march of humanity against the barbarity of ISIL or any other murderous act of homicide. Why? I refuse to allow them or anyone else to alienate me from who I am.

I am a man. I am a Muslim. I am a human being - and, precisely, as all of those and remaining true to who I am, I wish to join the march of humanity on every corner of this fragile earth against barbarism.

Please, President Obama and Prime Minster Cameron, stand aside and make room for me. I wish to join the rest of humanity and denounce this barbaric act. Would you mind?

Hamid Dabashi is Hagop Kevorkian Professor of Iranian Studies and Comparative Literature at Columbia University in New York.
 

tigersnake

Tear 'em apart
Sep 10, 2003
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BT Tiger said:
I think u might be referring to the 80/20 rule where 80% of the world's wealth is owned by less than 20% of the population.

that was very old news. Its actually worse than I thought I read, Richest 85 people have more money than almost half the global pop.

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jan/19/global-wealth-oxfam-inequality-davos-economic-summit-switzerland
 

waiting

Tiger Legend
Apr 15, 2007
14,058
9,171
Victoria
Thanks for the insight sintiger!

tigersnake , well what can say about that stat! Worse than I even imagined.
 

LeeToRainesToRoach

Tiger Legend
Jun 4, 2006
33,186
11,548
Melbourne
tigersnake said:
I believe the causes are economic rather than religious or cultural. Population keeps growing, and inequality keeps growing. Middle class shrinking, underclass growing. I read yesterday the richest 80 people have more money than the poorest 25% of the global population. May have been more actually, it was over 2.5 billion people. Something has to give on inequality for any positive change to happen.

Has nought to do with terrorism.

These people are lost without something to hate, it's in their DNA. Give them the best of everything and they'd still hate. They're easy prey for radicals.

Shut the doors until they demand peace in their own backyard, with or without US assistance.
 

Sintiger

Tiger Legend
Aug 11, 2010
18,643
18,748
Camberwell
LeeToRainesToRoach said:
Has nought to do with terrorism.

These people are lost without something to hate, it's in their DNA. Give them the best of everything and they'd still hate. They're easy prey for radicals.

Shut the doors until they demand peace in their own backyard, with or without US assistance.
You think they are not demanding peace now? Shut the doors and there will be millions killed. The horror of 200 French people will be dwarfed by the loss of millions of totally innocent Syrians, Lebanese and Iraqis. We will also be creating a generation of bitter people who would feel betrayed.

I know people who have been there, in the refugee camps with the actual people fleeing. They feel hopeless and betrayed, they can't understand why noone is doing anything to help them. The vast majority don't want to go to Germany or Hungary or Australia they want to go home and they can't.

Don't ask me what the answer is, I don't know. I do know what the answer isn't and that's closing the borders, treating every muslim like a terrorist and pretending the problem doesn't exist.
 

gutfull

Tiger Superstar
Jul 6, 2013
2,192
375
Baloo said:
Baloo your a bigger clown than l gave you credit for l don't go on this board to win an argument .I stick to facts , you read newspapers and you believe what you read , standard quote from a die hard Muslim , we're sorry this happened !!! Black Bla ..
Australia need to STOP immigration of Islam now !!!
Depends on your definition of an Islamic state really. Never lived in the Middle East but I've lived in Muslim countries in Asia. And I've dated more than a couple Muslim girls. Spent plenty of fun times every year as a guest in Muslims households during Hari Raya. So you've just lost that bet. Can't win one tonight can you.

Now, back to the point. You asked if Muslims communities would denounce the attacks. Just spend a bit of time reading the international news agencies and you'll see they already have. As they have all terrorist attacks where the terrorists have used Islam as their reason for being.