Terrorist attacks in Paris | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Terrorist attacks in Paris

LeeToRainesToRoach

Tiger Legend
Jun 4, 2006
33,186
11,546
Melbourne
Coburgtiger said:
If you're seriously suggesting that I have to be part of Reclaim Australia, if I oppose ISIS, then you've lost it.

Well you could form a third, neutral, pacifist side. But somehow I don't think IS would take that into account if they got their hands on you.

Reclaim Australia ain't the captain of our side.

You spew a lot of dangerous nonsense on this thread.

Nonsense is an opinion I can readily accept. But dangerous? Really? The only thing dangerous here is a certain belief system. And complacency.

I could no sooner assault or even verbally abuse a random Muslim, unprovoked, than I could a member of my own family. But hey, I'm a live and let live kinda guy. It's just that some Muslims believe in live and let die.
 

mrposhman

Tiger Legend
Oct 6, 2013
18,102
21,767
LeeToRainesToRoach said:
Yeah there's something wrong with the religion when people can justify what the likes of IS are doing by quoting verbatim from its sacred text. I can't even claim the Koran is being misinterpreted. It says what is says.

Islam is a religion that is out of control.

Its hardly like the Bible has never before been used in the same method. The Crusades is an example of this. All to do with misinterpretation of a religious book in order to influence certain outcomes.
 

Brodders17

Tiger Legend
Mar 21, 2008
17,811
11,995
LeeToRainesToRoach said:
When was the last time anyone cited the Bible as a licence to kill?

About 2 weeks ago.
http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/At-least-9-injured-in-shooting-near-Colorado-Springs-abortion-clinic-435597
 

Brodders17

Tiger Legend
Mar 21, 2008
17,811
11,995
LeeToRainesToRoach said:
Yeah there's something wrong with the religion when people can justify what the likes of IS are doing by quoting verbatim from its sacred text. I can't even claim the Koran is being misinterpreted. It says what is says.

it says what it says in Arabic, therefor it is all interpreted, and as far as i know there are different interpretations of what is written.
 

LeeToRainesToRoach

Tiger Legend
Jun 4, 2006
33,186
11,546
Melbourne
Brodders17 said:
About 2 weeks ago.
http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/At-least-9-injured-in-shooting-near-Colorado-Springs-abortion-clinic-435597

Did he quote from the Bible or provide any religious justification for his actions?

Tell you what. I'll refrain from posting on this topic again until an Islamist act of terrorism kills multiple people on Australian soil. Merry Christmas!
 

mrposhman

Tiger Legend
Oct 6, 2013
18,102
21,767
LeeToRainesToRoach said:
Did he quote from the Bible or provide any religious justification for his actions?

Tell you what. I'll refrain from posting on this topic again until an Islamist act of terrorism kills multiple people on Australian soil. Merry Christmas!

Wow you really have low expectations for the intelligence of the australian people. The majority of people will not be as reactionary as you appear to think.
 

millar time

Tiger Cub
Nov 25, 2015
67
0
Sintiger said:
Firstly is that I have never what you say I am fond of repeating, you won't find that posted by me.

Secondly this was in response to a statement about interpretation and that the manual is at fault. I was just using this as an example that the Koran "manual" is no more toxic than the bible "manual" which, given that we have very few if any Christian terrorists around, reinforces the point that it's not the manual at fault as you state but the interpretation at fault.

Ironic that they didn't go around quoting sections of the Quran and making fun of it - reckon that would have been safe?

Both are stories for another time, at least the Christians have attempted some sort of reformation. Can only imagine a world where people weren't brainwashed from birth into these cults.
 

millar time

Tiger Cub
Nov 25, 2015
67
0
Sintiger said:
ever read the Old Testament ? I am no great advocate for either or indeed any religion or book but I am firmly of the belief that the vast majority of Muslims adhere to the statement of a Muslim witness to the stabbing in London yesterday.

" you ain't no Muslim bro "

They take the ancient writings of violence in th Koran the same way as many Christians take calls for violence in the bible.

You are the one who is intimating there is something inherently evil in the religion not me. My statement has always been that it is not the problem of the religion to the Koran it is the interpretation of a few.

What"s a few, that's the second time you've slipped that in.
 

Sintiger

Tiger Legend
Aug 11, 2010
18,552
18,506
Camberwell
millar time said:
Ironic that they didn't go around quoting sections of the Quran and making fun of it - reckon that would have been safe?
No probably not, but that wasn't the point they were making.
millar time said:
What"s a few, that's the second time you've slipped that in.
A few is more than two, relatively small number, vast minority ...what else do you want ? It's not the 2nd time I have mentioned it because I have consistently said it, far more than two times. The muslims we should be worried about are a tiny minority based on my not inconsequential experience with muslims.
What I can tell you is that I have met many many muslims in my life over a period of 25 years, many in SE Asia are my friends. I have no hesitation in trusting any of them.
I can also tell you that I know 4 people who have worked in the refugee camps for escaping Syrians and Iraqis. All of them report back the hatred these people have for ISIS and talk about the amazing resilience and humanity of those people.
Live in your world if you like but my view is that you only have one thing to base your view on and that is fear.
LeeToRainesToRoach said:
Tell you what. I'll refrain from posting on this topic again until an Islamist act of terrorism kills multiple people on Australian soil. Merry Christmas!
There is not one person posting in this thread who has said that an attack on Australian soil could not happen. If it did it would prove nothing more than a member of a minority view of Islam got away with an attack. If you think an attack in Australia proves your view then you are wrong again.
 

Coburgtiger

Tiger Legend
May 7, 2012
5,046
7,262
LeeToRainesToRoach said:
Well you could form a third, neutral, pacifist side. But somehow I don't think IS would take that into account if they got their hands on you.

Reclaim Australia ain't the captain of our side.

Nonsense is an opinion I can readily accept. But dangerous? Really? The only thing dangerous here is a certain belief system. And complacency.

I could no sooner assault or even verbally abuse a random Muslim, unprovoked, than I could a member of my own family. But hey, I'm a live and let live kinda guy. It's just that some Muslims believe in live and let die.

I'm actually not that concerned about what Isis would do to me if they got their hands on me. I'm more likely to get beheaded riding my bike down Sydney road.

I'm more likely to die by falling down my stairs, or just good old fashioned heart failure. When it comes to violence, I'm much more likely to get beat up/assaulted by some drunken bogans in the city on a Friday night.

Isis are not that powerful. Constant fear mongering is more immediately dangerous than anything they can do.

In all honesty, I'm more scared of Reclaim Australia than ISIS.
 

tigertim

something funny is written here
Mar 6, 2004
30,098
12,510
Coburgtiger said:
I'm actually not that concerned about what Isis would do to me if they got their hands on me. I'm more likely to get beheaded riding my bike down Sydney road.

I'm more likely to die by falling down my stairs, or just good old fashioned heart failure. When it comes to violence, I'm much more likely to get beat up/assaulted by some drunken bogans in the city on a Friday night.

Isis are not that powerful. Constant fear mongering is more immediately dangerous than anything they can do.

In all honesty, I'm more scared of Reclaim Australia than ISIS.

Why is that?
 

Coburgtiger

Tiger Legend
May 7, 2012
5,046
7,262
Because racism, prejudice and vilification are much more of a threat to Australia as a society than potential terrorist attacks.
 

millar time

Tiger Cub
Nov 25, 2015
67
0
Coburgtiger said:
Because racism, prejudice and vilification are much more of a threat to Australia as a society than potential terrorist attacks.

I hope you're right. Islam is the biggest threat to world harmony, simply because of the restraints it places on personal freedom. Whilst we are reasonably isolated from fundamentalist activity it hasn't missed us. Just hope this so called tiny minority of mis-interpreters stay away.
 

bullus_hit

Whatchu talkin about Jack?
Apr 3, 2006
15,227
5,668
Coburgtiger said:
Because racism, prejudice and vilification are much more of a threat to Australia as a society than potential terrorist attacks.

This is the truth, one just needs to follow the Republican primaries to get a sense of the fear & hatred being stirred up, Donald Trump wants to ban any Muslim from entering the country, whether a citizen or not. The battle is not with 1.6 billion people, it's with a devious form of terrorist, a group that knows all too well how to confect rage under the guise of the Koran. The mere fact Al Qaeda don't subscribe to their methods should be a timely reminder that these are mentally unhinged criminals. Tarnish 25% of the worlds population with the same brush and you have every chance of stirring the hornets nest.
 

Sintiger

Tiger Legend
Aug 11, 2010
18,552
18,506
Camberwell
bullus_hit said:
This is the truth, one just needs to follow the Republican primaries to get a sense of the fear & hatred being stirred up, Donald Trump wants to ban any Muslim from entering the country, whether a citizen or not. The battle is not with 1.6 billion people, it's with a devious form of terrorist, a group that knows all too well how to confect rage under the guise of the Koran. The mere fact Al Qaeda don't subscribe to their methods should be a timely reminder that these are mentally unhinged criminals. Tarnish 25% of the worlds population with the same brush and you have every chance of stirring the hornets nest.
Donald Trump is scary, far more dangerous to the US than ISIS.

The way he talks about Syrian refugees is just plain wrong from a factual point of view. I posted on another thread some weeks ago that the number of refugees who have arrived in the US since 9/11 who have been charged with any offences related to terrorism is zero. There is just no basis in fact that refugees from places like Syria have any propensity for violence against the state whatsoever. In fact they are refugees because they are escaping from ISIS !
 

tigertim

something funny is written here
Mar 6, 2004
30,098
12,510
Coburgtiger said:
Because racism, prejudice and vilification are much more of a threat to Australia as a society than potential terrorist attacks.

But isnt this what ISIS etc are doing as well but to a far more destructive level? (And please dont mistake me for a fan of RA!)
 

Coburgtiger

Tiger Legend
May 7, 2012
5,046
7,262
tigertim said:
But isnt this what ISIS etc are doing as well but to a far more destructive level? (And please dont mistake me for a fan of RA!)

Don't mistake me, ISIS are way more evil than Reclaim Australia, way more insane, cowardly, violent. But they are less powerful, and less immediately dangerous to our society than the values Reclaim Australia represent. In fact, they are essentially doing the same job. ISIS are responsible for some sporadic extremely violent and abhorrent acts. That, in itself, is not causing terror here. The terror is arising from certain political movements here (and in other western countries) stirring up fear, indiscriminate hostility, xenophobia and prejudice.

There are posters here who are clearly terrified of ISIS, and as a result, they have become proponents of actions which would act to separate our society, and create a conflict which didn't previously exist. Those messages are inherently dangerous. And the posters here have never had any contact with anything ISIS have ever done. Nor has anyone they know. It's not just ISIS doing the job of terrorisng, it is our political leaders - our recent PM kept talking about "Death Cults who are coming after us" - and parties that are fostering terror.

I guess it depends on what you qualify as destructive. I think fear and prejudice are far more destructive on a global scale than violence in and of itself. Granted, the aim of terrorism is to foster that fear and prejudice. But it's not possible for a terrorist group to do that on it's own. We have to engage them.
I would suggest we don't help the cause.
 

Brodders17

Tiger Legend
Mar 21, 2008
17,811
11,995
http://www.watoday.com.au/comment/we-need-to-harden-up-unreasonable-fear-of-terrorism-serves-the-enemy-20151207-glhkt0.html

We need to harden up: unreasonable fear of terrorism serves the enemy
Date December 7, 2015

Peter Hartcher
Sydney Morning Herald political and international editor
During a radio broadcast, Islamic State claim the couple believed to be responsible for the San Bernardino shootings were supporters of the militant group.
Why do political movements use terrorism? Because it works, at least initially, as recent events show. Not in the scale of its killing, which is very small.

"The success of these atrocities lies in the way they compel our attention," says Conor Gearty of the London School of Economics in his book Terror, published in 1991, long before so-called Islamic State or Daesh had been conceived.

Terrorists prey on our fears, and our fears exaggerate the dangers beyond any rationality. That's why it's called terrorism – it's the clinical deployment of terror to produce a specific behavioural response.


Illustration: John Shakespeare
That's clear even from the title of the Daesh strategy guide, the 2004 online book written by the man who calls himself Abu Bakr Naji. It's title: "The Management of Savagery". And, as an exercise in sowing wild-eyed fear, it still works every time.

The World Health Organisation's latest available figures tell us that about 56 million people die worldwide each year.

Far and away the biggest killer is heart disease, responsible for 7.4 million deaths in 2012. That's mostly death by lifestyle indulgence, and mostly in the rich countries. Another among the top 10 killers is road accidents, the cause of another 1.3 million deaths worldwide.

By contrast, terrorist attacks last year killed about 43,500 people globally, according to the Global Terrorism Database. Or about 0.08 per cent of all deaths. That's fewer than half the number where "alcohol" was listed as the cause.

Is terrorism in the top 10? Of course not. If it were ranked in the list of biggest killers, it would come in at number 65. Just ahead of appendicitis.

You can halve the number of terrorism-related deaths if you exclude war zones, like Iraq and Syria. And you can cut it by a further quarter if you subtract the deaths of the terrorists themselves, blown up by their own bombs.

So we're left with some 15,000 deaths of innocent victims a year worldwide, outside war zones. On the rankings of cause of death, that would put it somewhere between multiple sclerosis and leprosy. It's that rare.

But the terrorists measure success not in mass deaths but in mass audiences. "Terrorists want a lot of people watching, not a lot of people dead," a US expert on the subject, Brian Jenkins, remarked in 1998.

Are you going to going to go around in a state of fearfulness because of a fear that you might die of appendicitis? Are you going to vote according to which political party is best to deal with the threat of leprosy? Is the Western world going to declare war on traffic?

Absurd, of course. Yet consider Western responses to the fear of terrorism. A third of people in Britain say they're afraid of going to public events such as concerts or football matches.

In this year's Lowy poll "found that of eight potential risks to Australia's security, Australians rank terrorism-related threats first, second and third."

Rather than growing hardened to terrorism, we seem to be growing more panicked.

For instance, the terrorist attacks on London's tube trains and buses in 2005 killed 52 innocent people and injured over 700. Most tube and bus services resumed the next day.

After the recent Paris attacks, that killed 130 and injured 368, neighbouring Brussels shut down its subway system for four days, the longest closure since World War II, plus it closed its schools and museums and many retail outlets and other facilities too.

Why? Because of threats, the Brussels authorities said, that were specific enough to close down the city yet not specific enough to indict the plotters. This is the sweet spot for terrorists.

It's a tremendous achievement that a handful of murderous thugs can cow any major European city into a four-day shutdown based on mere chatter, but how much greater is it when that city is the de facto capital of the European Union and the headquarters of NATO?

More rewarding yet for Daesh is the election result in France on the weekend. The far-right National Front party of Marine Le Pen won the biggest share of the vote in regional elections.

National Front has been gaining for several years now. It's been fuelled by anti-immigrant sentiment and economic anxiety.

But it seems to have been turbo charged by the terrorist attacks and the apparent vindication of its anti-Islamic stance.

The grand prize for Daesh, of course, would be US misjudgment. A rising anti-Islam hysteria in the US threatens to fuel the division and fear that the terrorists seek to promote. And by panicking the US political system, the terrorists seem to moving the US towards a military misjudgment too.

For four years, US president Barack Obama, like all Western leaders, has been guilty of wishing away the civil war in Syria. Obama is gradually coming to the conclusion that the US needs to lead a solution, not run from it.

It was the chaos of Syria and Iraq that nurtured Daesh. Its so-called caliphate there is its greatest trophy. An intelligent, co-ordinated, international strategy to bring a political solution to the Syria-Iraq continuum of chaos is a prerequisite to defeating Daesh.

So far there is no strategy. And so far the US and other Western countries are reacting to Daesh terrorist atrocities by reflexively sending more planes and troops in the absence of a strategy. This will add to the chaos, not solve it.

We need to harden up. The West needs to be as calculating as the terrorists, and as purposeful. Unreasoning fear and political panic only serve our enemy.

Peter Hartcher is international editor.
 

AngryAnt

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
27,162
15,026
donald-trump-has-surged-to-the-top-of-2-new-2016-polls.jpg


Donald and ISIS are on the same page when it comes to clashes of civilisations.
 

TigerForce

Tiger Legend
Apr 26, 2004
71,262
22,173
57
antman said:
donald-trump-has-surged-to-the-top-of-2-new-2016-polls.jpg


Donald and ISIS are on the same page when it comes to clashes of civilisations.

Muzz-lims. Is this as bad a humour as USAMA (Bin Laden) was?