Terrorist attacks in Paris

[bullus_hit]

Let's hope. I know, let's demonise the half million Australians who are Muslim as terrorists who can't be trusted. That will make Australia much safer, for sure.

Interesting isn't it? Australia has one of the better records of social cohesion, Muslims haven't caused much trouble here yet many seem to be agitating for confrontation. Let it get out of hand and you start giving credibility to fascist groups, Europe is already grappling with this as we speak. As one extremist fringe grows in numbers, so to will the other side, the mainstream then gets caught in the crossfire.

 

[Brodders17]

I can say with confidence that people who look like this...

...are more likely to murder you at random than others.

i know you like stats. can you tell us how many people have been killed in Austraya over the last few years by people who "look like that"?

can you tell us how many have been killed people who dont "look like that"?

im guessing more have been killed by the later.

 

[millar time]

True, I was shocked to hear the Bible advocated stoning and cutting off people's hands.

Yes, I feel much safer knowing that white nationalists are here to restore harmony to the world.

Whose advocating following any religious teachings? Dark ages babble. At least the Christians have undergone some sort of reformation and don't create mass chaos when satire is aimed at their idols.

And I can't stand white nationalists either. These rise up or reclaim groups attract the same type of blinkered nutter.

 

[millar time]

Interesting isn't it? Australia has one of the better records of social cohesion, Muslims haven't caused much trouble here yet many seem to be agitating for confrontation. Let it get out of hand and you start giving credibility to fascist groups, Europe is already grappling with this as we speak. As one extremist fringe grows in numbers, so to will the other side, the mainstream then gets caught in the crossfire.

mass Muslim immigration working out well for France hey? I suppose it's the Frenchs fault for not assimilating well?

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

i know you like stats. can you tell us how many people have been killed in Austraya over the last few years by people who "look like that"?

can you tell us how many have been killed people who dont "look like that"?

im guessing more have been killed by the later.

I don't know the numbers, or the number of lives saved through foiled acts of Islamist terrorism.

Their numbers are small and they're being monitored. Wait until they have a foothold.

I think some of you are totally ignorant of what a Paris-style attack would do to this country.

 

[bullus_hit]

mass Muslim immigration working out well for France hey? I suppose it's the Frenchs fault for not assimilating well?

I think there's some telling messages from the France situation, the first being the sheer idiocy of deliberately provoking the extremists into action. The cartoons were akin to putting a target on ones head, in the name of freedom to insult one's religion, they have paid with their lives and have put all French people front and centre in a guerilla war. I personally don't see the point in religious satire, it achieves very little and inflames the lunatic fringes. As Australians we have a generally good record of assimilation, if anything we should be grateful that very few have incidents have occurred and that the community generally works together. But this isn't guaranteed to last if people keep taking keep taking cheap potshots, if you label every Muslim a terrorist then you are creating the perfect breeding ground for radicalism.

 

[mrposhman]

mass Muslim immigration working out well for France hey? I suppose it's the Frenchs fault for not assimilating well?

So there have been what 10, maybe 15 terrorists over the last couple of years to hit France? You might need a calculator, but the proportion is tiny compared to the millions (there are at least 2m immigrants from North Africa mainly Morroco. Algeria and Tunisia living in France) that actually live in France. A lot of these migrants (as with most european countries) have lived there relatively peacefully for decades. Your point is incredibly subjective.

Having said that, the one thing that I will say about muslims (and this is more from growing up in the UK) but muslims (particularly those from areas such as Pakistan) seem to either struggle or refrain from assimilating into society as well as others. The british had mass migration after both the 1st world war and the 2nd and there was a lot of migration at that point of Hindu's, Sikhs and Muslims. From my experience the sikhs and hindus have merged into society much better. Why that is I'm not sure.

 

[millar time]

so freedom of speech and rule of law are condoned but let's make sure we don't upset the Muslims cause guess what - they don't care about the law if you "insult" their prophet. If you endorse or condone that thinking your just another apologist for terrorism. Spare me your victim blaming. All the more reason to cease any Muslim immigration if that's the prevailing attitude. Religion of peace?

 

[jb03]

I think there's some telling messages from the France situation, the first being the sheer idiocy of deliberately provoking the extremists into action. The cartoons were akin to putting a target on ones head, in the name of freedom to insult one's religion, they have paid with their lives and have put all French people front and centre in a guerilla war. I personally don't see the point in religious satire, it achieves very little and inflames the lunatic fringes. As Australians we have a generally good record of assimilation, if anything we should be grateful that very few have incidents have occurred and that the community generally works together. But this isn't guaranteed to last if people keep taking keep taking cheap potshots, if you label every Muslim a terrorist then you are creating the perfect breeding ground for radicalism.

That's simply excusing the perpetrators and leads one step closer to the abolition of free speech.

 

[Baloo]

A bit worrying see that Daesh are achieving their goal to create an us v them divide between Muslims and the rest.

 

[millar time]

A bit worrying see that Daesh are achieving their goal to create an us v them divide between Muslims and the rest.

fWIW I'm against all religions. Just think Islam is the most regressive and would prefer the country I live in not face the uncomfortable task of assisting it modernise.

It will eventually happen, the emancipation of women will ensure it but there'll be a ton of trouble in between.

 

[bullus_hit]

so freedom of speech and rule of law are condoned but let's make sure we don't upset the Muslims cause guess what - they don't care about the law if you "insult" their prophet. If you endorse or condone that thinking your just another apologist for terrorism. Spare me your victim blaming. All the more reason to cease any Muslim immigration if that's the prevailing attitude. Religion of peace?

Is insulting people with generalisations productive or counterproductive? Think it over, you may save yourself a lot of heartache down the track.

That's simply excusing the perpetrators and leads one step closer to the abolition of free speech.

I don't know about you but I recognise there are always limits to freedom of speech, if the dialogue has been designed to offend then one better be prepared for the consequences. I certainly wouldn't go to Thailand and insult the King in the name of free speech, common sense should apply to all situations. Inflaming people on the grounds of religion never ends well, this is the one truism throughout history. I'm sure that if you transplanted the word Muslim with the word Jew, you would be howled down for anti-semitism, you may even be charged by police. Islamophobia will not solve the problem of radicalism, it will make it worse, this is the bottom line.

 

[Sintiger]

I think some of you are totally ignorant of what a Paris-style attack would do to this country.

No not ignorant. I am fearful of it because it will be used as an excuse to marginalise the rest of the muslim community who had nothing to do with it and wouldn't support it

I think the ignorance comes from people who think that the very people who should be our greatest allies in this should be spoken of as the potential enemy. The greatest strength we can have as a community is to support the people who have the most influence to alleviate the problem, other muslims.

I don't know the answer because no one does but I know what the answer isn't and that's hatred and exclusion. If we do that we give this small minority of wackos the very thing they crave the most which is a wider conflict between western society and islamic society. I for one have no intention of playing a part in giving it to them. Baloo's statement below is to that point.

A bit worrying see that Daesh are achieving their goal to create an us v them divide between Muslims and the rest.

 

[Sintiger]

sorry for the spelling mistakes. Still waiting for someone to point out the flaws in Hitchens logic.

http://www.inquisitr.com/1735647/christopher-hitchens-islam-comments-resurface-after-charlie-hebdo-its-the-most-depraved-religion/

It is wrong because not every muslim believes that countries should be ruled under sharia law and that should achieved through jihad as an armed struggle. Many muslims believe in and live peacefully and happily in societies with secular governments separate from religion, they also believe that the literal translation of jihad is to struggle which has no connotation of armed conflict at all.

The nutcases believe what Hitchins talks about, so do the ones who commit the most violence.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

I think the ignorance comes from people who think that the very people who should be our greatest allies in this should be spoken of as the potential enemy. The greatest strength we can have as a community is to support the people who have the most influence to alleviate the problem, other muslims.

Again there's the conundrum - how do you know who's on our side?

Major Held in Fort Hood Rampage Is Charged With 13 Counts of Murder

It's a situation deliberately orchestrated by IS. I'd sooner trust a large shark not to bite me than assume all of our Muslims are peaceful.

 

[millar time]

It is wrong because not every muslim believes that countries should be ruled under sharia law and that should achieved through jihad as an armed struggle. Many muslims believe in and live peacefully and happily in societies with secular governments separate from religion, they also believe that the literal translation of jihad is to struggle which has no connotation of armed conflict at all.

The nutcases believe what Hitchins talks about, so do the ones who commit the most violence.

But no one is claiming every Muslim behaves or thinks this way. But vast numbers do. Are they all nutcases or simply devout believers? As LTRTR alludes to how do we identify the non-nutcases?

 

[Tigers of Old]

I don't know about you but I recognise there are always limits to freedom of speech, if the dialogue has been designed to offend then one better be prepared for the consequences. I certainly wouldn't go to Thailand and insult the King in the name of free speech, common sense should apply to all situations. Inflaming people on the grounds of religion never ends well, this is the one truism throughout history. I'm sure that if you transplanted the word Muslim with the word Jew, you would be howled down for anti-semitism, you may even be charged by police. Islamophobia will not solve the problem of radicalism, it will make it worse, this is the bottom line.

There's a lot of sense in this post.
My dear old mum & dad told me never to discuss religion or politics at a party.
Was sage advice.
There's free speech and then there's common sense at the risk of offending somebody.
Still there's being offended and then there's mass murder too..

 

[Sintiger]

But no one is claiming every Muslim behaves or thinks this way. But vast numbers do. Are they all nutcases or simply devout believers? As LTRTR alludes to how do we identify the non-nutcases?

Hitchens was generalising about the religion and so effectively he was presenting it as the facts of the religion but he was wrong. You asked what was wrong and I told you but you just choose not to believe it.
You are slipping back into opinion with no basis in fact.

Again there's the conundrum - how do you know who's on our side?

It's called living your life, choices about who to trust and who not to are made by us every day. There are stories like that over and over in general life, the murderer or rapist who seemed like a good bloke stories that happen all the time.

There is also another conundrum, what is our side? Reclaim Australia are anti ISIS but they aren't on my side. You are going back to George W type rhetoric again.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

There is also another conundrum, what is our side? Reclaim Australia are anti ISIS but they aren't on my side. You are going back to George W type rhetoric again.

Come off it, that is *smile*. Reclaim Australia aren't plotting to blow up the MCG on GF day.

Hitchens was generalising about the religion and so effectively he was presenting it as the facts of the religion but he was wrong. You asked what was wrong and I told you but you just choose not to believe it.
You are slipping back into opinion with no basis in fact.

Then it's equally wrong to refer to Aboriginals as a group when there are hundreds of distinct tribes with their own characteristics. Practicality over complexity.

 

[Sintiger]

Come off it, that is *smile*. Reclaim Australia aren't plotting to blow up the MCG on GF day.

Seriously ?

When did I say they were? You raised "sides" not me. My post was simply stating that Reclaim Australia don't represent me and they are on the anti-ISIS "side" meaning it is far more complex than simple words like that.