Terrorist Attacks | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Terrorist Attacks

Brodders17

Tiger Legend
Mar 21, 2008
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He WAS seeing a doctor, his family confirmed it. The doctor thought he was doing better, so decided to start to wean him off the meds he was on (that were working but the doctor thought he might not need them any longer). He then stopped going to the doctor and his family said his behaviour changed and he moved away. The rest is history.

My concern with this, is whats the escalation process if this action happens to another patient, and they then stop going to the doctor. Who does welfare checks? Anyone? I'd hazard a guess not, but this highlights how inaction can increase risks to the public. Had welfare checks been done, even his dad said he moved back in with them and they found a whole bunch of knives which is dad confiscated them from him and he got angry and ultimately moved out again. From what the family said, they did everything they could to help him, but the system seems to have failed him.

Its all well and good changing treatment methods, but then what happens if they stop taking them. What escalation steps exist for the doctor. It can't just be that they are forgotten about, there has to be a process that protects the individual as well as the community around them.
A few thoughts- Meds often have a lot of negative side effects so doctors will want to prescribe the least amount while maintaining their effectiveness, and people taking the meds will often want to come off them, and have the right to do so. Unless there is enough reason for a court to issue a treatment order and even these are very hard to enforce- unless there is a notable risk.

People living with mental illness dont lose the right to privacy, or the right to self determination, nor are they automatic dangers to others.

And i think it was you that earlier posted that he was known to police in Queensland- this does not necessarily mean he was a danger to others, or had presented any risk. It doesnt mean police had any reason to track his movements, or follow up on his whereabouts. Sometimes police just know people who may need some assistance at times.

An awful situation all round.
 
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Sintiger

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Aug 11, 2010
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A few thoughts- Meds often have a lot of negative side effects so doctors will want to prescribe the least amount while maintaining their effectiveness, and people taking the meds will often want to come off them, and have the right to do so. Unless there is enough reason for a court to issue a treatment order and even these are very hard to enforce- unless there is a notable risk.

People living with mental illness dont lose the right to privacy, or the right to self determination, nor are they automatic dangers to others.

And i think it was you that earlier posted that he was known to police in Queensland- this does not necessarily mean he was a danger to others, or had presented any risk. It doesnt mean police had any reason to track his movements, or follow up on his whereabouts. Sometimes police just know people who may need some assistance at times.

An awful situation all round.
Couple of comments.

His mother actually said that the meds made him feel very sick, you are right about the side effects. Evidently he had been stopped and searched for knives on the Gold Coast at least once but didn't have one on him so there must have been some sort of intelligence/information on him.

I agree with what you are saying btw. Mental health is not an exact science
 

MD Jazz

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Feb 3, 2017
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A few thoughts- Meds often have a lot of negative side effects so doctors will want to prescribe the least amount while maintaining their effectiveness, and people taking the meds will often want to come off them, and have the right to do so. Unless there is enough reason for a court to issue a treatment order and even these are very hard to enforce- unless there is a notable risk.

People living with mental illness dont lose the right to privacy, or the right to self determination, nor are they automatic dangers to others.

And i think it was you that earlier posted that he was known to police in Queensland- this does not necessarily mean he was a danger to others, or had presented any risk. It doesnt mean police had any reason to track his movements, or follow up on his whereabouts. Sometimes police just know people who may need some assistance at times.

An awful situation all round.
Yeh, we would not have enough resources if everyone with a mental health condition was assumed dangerous and required tracking/follow up.
 
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Jul 26, 2004
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Couple of comments.

His mother actually said that the meds made him feel very sick, you are right about the side effects.
I know someone who got significantly worse on prescribed medication to treat depression. They basically were overdosing & developed mania symptoms. It was scary to watch them spiral. Far better off without it.
Side effects are no joke.
 
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tigertim

something funny is written here
Mar 6, 2004
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Free. You can get 'em free.
Only if you’re seeing a bulk billing psychologist (don’t think there’s any BB psychiatrists though) or if you’ve got serious MH issues and are in “the system“ seeing your mental health professional as an in or out patient.
 
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Sintiger

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Only if you’re seeing a bulk billing psychologist (don’t think there’s any BB psychiatrists though) or if you’ve got serious MH issues and are in “the system“ seeing your mental health professional as an in or out patient.
Correct a psychologist, who can’t dispense drugs

You can get a bulk billing or free psychiatrist if you are referred into the public hospital system but the wait list is probably long
 

Brodders17

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Mar 21, 2008
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Yeh, we would not have enough resources if everyone with a mental health condition was assumed dangerous and required tracking/follow up.
Its not about resources- there is no reason to assume everyone with a mental health condition is dangerous and requires tracking/follow up, so it shouldnt be the default position- unless we are happy for the wider community to live under the same conditions.
 

mrposhman

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Oct 6, 2013
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Its not about resources- there is no reason to assume everyone with a mental health condition is dangerous and requires tracking/follow up, so it shouldnt be the default position- unless we are happy for the wider community to live under the same conditions.

Certainly agree that not every person with a mental health condition needs to be followed up on, but there has to be adequate procedures in place to notify relevant authorities at times where doctor follow ups are not met, which need to be the same in both the public and private system. I assume most people with mental health conditions will have some sort of repeat follow ups with doctors to track how they are going, how the meds are going (for treatment but also side effects), and if these sessions are missed, you'd think for not only the protection of the public, but probably moreso in most cases, the protection of the individual themselves would require a welfare check up to make sure they are ok.

This clearly wouldn't be every person with a mental health condition but when those risks increase where a person can become a danger to themselves or others, there should be a procedure where we check up on them. I would hazard a guess that there isn't a lot of funding out there for this, but maybe there should be.
 

Willo

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Oct 13, 2007
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Its not about resources- there is no reason to assume everyone with a mental health condition is dangerous and requires tracking/follow up, so it shouldnt be the default position- unless we are happy for the wider community to live under the same conditions.
Agreed. Impossible to have enough resources anyway.
With the amount of people claiming mental health problems as a defence and the number who genuinely do have mental health issues who are diagnosed, and the people who do but aren’t diagnosed, there is no way we could ever have the resources to cover everyone
 

MD Jazz

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And taking action on covid when the Morrislug government is too busy doing nothing.


Free. You can get 'em free.
I think TT is correct it is not free for most. I have used the service and still paid, but as tt said it wasn't a bulk billing psychologist.
 
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MD Jazz

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I know someone who got significantly worse on prescribed medication to treat depression. They basically were overdosing & developed mania symptoms. It was scary to watch them spiral. Far better off without it.
Side effects are no joke.
It's different for everyone. Some people cannot function without medication. Most people I know who take medication for bi-polar say it takes ages to get the meds right. And it still doesn't mean they avoid depressive episodes.
 
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Sintiger

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Its not about resources- there is no reason to assume everyone with a mental health condition is dangerous and requires tracking/follow up, so it shouldnt be the default position- unless we are happy for the wider community to live under the same conditions.
I agree but It would be great if all mental health patients are followed up if they drop out of the system, not necessarily because they are dangerous but because it is better for them and us in the longer term.
That is a matter of resources. Clinicians don’t always follow up when someone drops out not because they don’t want to but because they have massive waiting lists.
One of the things that has been of concern in this space is that not enough doctors who go into specialisation pick mental health/psychiatry. That’s because it is hard, especially in the public system which has become overwhelmed.
 

22nd Man

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Aug 29, 2011
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Couple of comments.

His mother actually said that the meds made him feel very sick, you are right about the side effects. Evidently he had been stopped and searched for knives on the Gold Coast at least once but didn't have one on him so there must have been some sort of intelligence/information on him.

I agree with what you are saying btw. Mental health is not an exact science
Don’t they have random search powers?
 

Willo

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Oct 13, 2007
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I wanna kill’: Inside the alleged Islamic teen plot to unleash terror in Sydney
A group of Sydney teens are accused by police of describing themselves as “soldiers of Allah”, speaking of their excitement to “die and kill”, planning to obtain guns and listing Jewish people as targets while organising a terror attack in the days following the Wakeley church stabbing, The Daily Telegraph can reveal.

Derrick Krusche
April 28, 2024 9:25 pm
A group of Sydney teens are accused by police of describing themselves as “soldiers of Allah”, speaking of their excitement to “die and kill”, planning to obtain guns and listing Jewish people as targets while organising a terror attack in the days following the Wakeley church stabbing, The Daily Telegraph can reveal.

The four male teens – a 15-year-old, a 16-year-old and two 17-year-olds – were arrested in sweeping anti-terror raids in suburban western Sydney last Wednesday after another boy had allegedly stabbed Christian Bishop Mar Mari Emmanuel at the Wakeley church, sparking violent riots on the streets, on April 15.

According to a police fact sheet tendered to court, it is alleged the four male teens who were arrested in the raids were planning the terrorist attack after the Wakeley rioting, plans which included speaking of obtaining guns including a “shotty” and looking for abandoned homes to be used as stash houses.

The boys also spoke of their willingness to kill and die in the name of religious martyrdom, police allege in the documents.
In one conversation on the app Signal five days after the Wakeley incident on April 20, one of the 17-year-old’s allegedly wrote: “I wanna die and I wanna kill … I’m just excited”, to which the 16-year-old responded: “We’re gonna kill dw … but we need patience”
The 17-year-old then asked: “Is your plan to get caught or die or escape?”

In response, the 16-year-old wrote: “We’re gonna be planning for a while … we prefer to escape, but whatever happens … it’s the qadr (power) of Allah”.

Police allegations in fact sheet against the four boys

“I wanna die and I wanna kill … I’m just excited … Is your plan to get caught or die or escape?” – 17-year-old on Signal on April 20 after Wakeley riots.
“I really want to target the yahood (Jewish people) … we will plan it” – 15-year-old on a Signal group chat called “Plans” on April 19.


“WE ARE NOT A RELIGION OF PEACE, we don’t give a chance for anyone to come at our deen (Islam)” – social media reposted by the 15-year-old on April 17.

“I was gonna come in the junkiest clothes on Monday cos I thought we were gonna go stabbing c--ts” – one of the boys on April 20.

“I js wanna married to a religious good girl then make hijrah with her and have kids maybe but I really want to do an attack now too because I have so much hatred for these kuffar it’s not funny and I wanna do jihad now” – 15-year-old's social media post on April 21.

“It’s easy to do fire bro but shooting and bombs too hard” – the 16-year-old's post on social media on April 21.
“I know the bloke who done it he’s my mate … It’s gonna be Cronulla riots all over again” – the 15-year-old on the Wakeley stabbing and subsequent rioting.

Police allege in the documents this conversation showed there was an agreement to plan a terror attack as part of an ideological cause.

The 16-year-old also allegedly wrote online on another day: “Allah is the best of planners and we are the soldiers of Allah”.
In another conversation, police say two of the boys spoke of obtaining guns. On April 19, the 17-year-old and 16-year-old allegedly spoke about the sourcing of these guns, including a reference to a “shotty” (shotgun) and purchasing two to three “dirty guns” for $2000-$4000.

According to intercepted messages that police have obtained, the teens also allegedly spoke of who they wanted to target
On April 19, the 15-year-old was allegedly part of a Signal chat group called “Plans”, in which its members allegedly discussed the planning of a terrorist act.

The 15-year-old allegedly wrote: “I really want to target the yahood (Jewish people) … we will plan it”.
He also allegedly wrote: “I wanna do Jihad now” and “Where do youse want to do the bayah”.
Bayah in Islamic terminology is an oath or pledge of allegiance to a leader, police allege.
High profile Sydney solicitor Ahmed Dib, who is legally representing the 15-year-old boy, refused to comment when contacted on Sunday.

And the fact sheet also includes alleged communications the boys were having regarding the street rioting in Wakeley.
After the bishop was stabbed, thousands descended on the church chanting “an eye for an eye” as police barricaded themselves and the arrested boy inside.

Text messages also began circulating calling on the Assyrian Christian community to launch revenge attacks.

According to the police fact sheet, the 15-year-old posted an Instagram story praising the boy for allegedly stabbing the Bishop.
The 15-year-old then allegedly wrote to an associate: “I know the bloke who done it he’s my mate”.
Turning to the issue of rioting, the 15-yeat-old allegedly said: “It’s gonna be Cronulla riots all over again”.

Later, on April 22, the 15-year-old and one of the 17-year-olds were arrested over an unrelated alleged assault in Lurnea, the fact sheet states.
Seemingly panicking, the 16-year-old then allegedly wrote to the other 17-year-old: “Did you forget we have planning on (his) phone?” to which the other 17-year-old allegedly said: “Oh *smile*”.
The 16-year-old then allegedly said: “we were planning big stuff bro. it’s conspiracy for … conspiracy for a terror attack I think …. If their phone gets searched then we are all gone … yeah were gone cuz. For planning attacks and this and that we’re gone bro”.

Police searched the phone of the 17-year-old after the alleged Lurnea assault.

They allegedly found a note on his phone that read: “There is much to plan brothers … think of yourselves as soldiers now … you are not children, you are ions of the khilafah and there is a correct way to prepare these things”.

The four were later arrested in the raids last Wednesday. None have entered pleas and remain before the courts.
All up, five teens were charged with terrorism offences following Wednesday’s raids. Two other juveniles were arrested, but not charged


I don’t care how old they are. Just deport them and their parents back to the old country . Obviously their indoctrination starts somewhere. Set an example if this is what you plan, there is no place for you here.

And if those Sudanese gangs want to rampage through our society. Threaten to send them and their families back. If they take no notice, deport them. They’ll soon get the message
 
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Baloo

Delisted Free Agent
Nov 8, 2005
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I don’t care how old they are. Just deport them
What old country? Quite likely these kids have only one passport, an Australian one. We can't deport them anywhere if they only have an Australian passport.

and their parents back to the old country . Obviously their indoctrination starts somewhere.
Cool, now we should hold parents responsible for everything their kids do? Does that go for dinki di anglo saxon Aussies as well, or just those who can't trace their lineage back to Athelstan?

What should we do with Cauchi's parents? The name sounds woggish so we should them back somewhere as well?
 
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