Terrorist Attacks

[Sintiger]

This is Australia. You can say what you like without getting stabbed for it. Sorry but you are way off here Sin.

You are making assumptions about what I mean which are wrong.
I am not talking about the stabbing I am talking about the near riot afterwards. This guy attracted the lunatic fringe. It can escalate to retaliation which is why it is a complicated situation.

 

[MD Jazz]

His family said today that he was diagnosed with schizophrenia in his teens and was on medication, was doing well and then his doctor started to wean him off the medication and then his mental health started to deteriorate. He then moved away from them, and then moved further into NSW and the rest is history.

I think questions need to be asked of doctors where a medical solution is working, why would they try and change it and not then have regular checkups. If he missed them, then it should be setting off massive alarm bells.

His own family don't blame the police in either QLD or NSW, but sounded like they had serious questions about the advice from their doctor.

A bit tough to call out his doctior based on the above posh.

Schizophrenia is a very difficult illness to treat. I lived a few doors from a guy with schizophrenia who I befriended as we often crossed paths at the local cafe. He was super smart, a member of mensa (so he told me but I believe him). He built me a few computers from scratch, did networking and in general converstaion had great knowledge of all sorts of subjects. I actually had him doing some IT work for clients, building computers and setting up networks etc. He had told me about his mental health challanges but I never saw anything (to that stage) that would worry you. One day at a clients he had a total shutdown, he just couldn't continue. He couldn't speak or drive, basically just got overwhelmned. We stopped the work. A few weeks later later he called me from a payphone trying to evade a CATT. Eventually ended up in an institution for about 6 weeks. I visited him a few times at the facility, he was heavy doses of lithium. I still keep in touch, but he has not worked properly for 25 years (his period with me was less than a month) and is on a disability pension. He has no family support (from NZ originally). He rings me and in various conversations has told me he is running an international charity, talks with Elon Musk regularly and drives the fastest car in melb. He has joined a few churches as they provide free meals at times. He has eviction notices from his rental as he cannot pay the rent (the couple he lived with moved out) and is about 6 months behind in payments. He said he is not worried as he has read the Residential Tenancies Act back to front and has at least another 6 months before he thinks they will be able to actually get him out. He now regularly texts me quotes from the bible.

I doubt he is potentially violent but who knows. He made some very disparaging remarks about the real estate agent (female) that manages the property he is in. Some of the stuff he talks about on the phone is crazy. I do not know if he is taking medication. What is he capable of?

 

[Tigers of Old]

You are making assumptions about what I mean which are wrong.
I am not talking about the stabbing I am talking about the near riot afterwards. This guy attracted the lunatic fringe. It can escalate to retaliation which is why it is a complicated situation.

You think the Terrorist who is Muslim is worried about the things you're talking about?
The mob is most likely furious because their priest got stabbed & nearly murdered right in front of them.

 

[mrposhman]

A bit tough to call out his doctior based on the above posh.

Schizophrenia is a very difficult illness to treat. I lived a few doors from a guy with schizophrenia who I befriended as we often crossed paths at the local cafe. He was super smart, a member of mensa (so he told me but I believe him). He built me a few computers from scratch, did networking and in general converstaion had great knowledge of all sorts of subjects. I actually had him doing some IT work for clients, building computers and setting up networks etc. He had told me about his mental health challanges but I never saw anything (to that stage) that would worry you. One day at a clients he had a total shutdown, he just couldn't continue. He couldn't speak or drive, basically just got overwhelmned. We stopped the work. A few weeks later later he called me from a payphone trying to evade a CATT. Eventually ended up in an institution for about 6 weeks. I visited him a few times at the facility, he was heavy doses of lithium. I still keep in touch, but he has not worked properly for 25 years (his period with me was less than a month) and is on a disability pension. He has no family support (from NZ originally). He rings me and in various conversations has told me he is running an international charity, talks with Elon Musk regularly and drives the fastest car in melb. He has joined a few churches as they provide free meals at times. He has eviction notices from his rental as he cannot pay the rent (the couple he lived with moved out) and is about 6 months behind in payments. He said he is not worried as he has read the Residential Tenancies Act back to front and has at least another 6 months before he thinks they will be able to actually get him out. He now regularly texts me quotes from the bible.

I doubt he is potentially violent but who knows. He made some very disparaging remarks about the real estate agent (female) that manages the property he is in. Some of the stuff he talks about on the phone is crazy. I do not know if he is taking medication. What is he capable of?

Maybe I was a bit harsh with the way I worded it but there needs to be specific follow up guidelines of what happens when you change meds, and also needs to include when police are involved to do welfare checks.

From all reports the meds that Cauci was on were working for nearly 20 years of his life, and as he was doing so well (there is a lot about how you describe the guy you know and Cauci - both very smart) but when changing meds things can change very quickly. I'm not sure if there is a specific set of guidelines to follow, but there needs to be follow up appointments with the doctor when things change (and I understand Cauci stopped going to his doctor) but where were the red flags for him? Surely this should include police intervention as a prevention measure for the community?

Ie. go off the meds, stop seeing your doctor, then we need someone to go and do a welfare check on the guy.

Maybe its not the doctor specifically but the system that I was getting at, but ultimately, when changing meds for the benefit of the patient you also need to make sure that the community remains protected. We know what can happen with people with mental health conditions (and the US is a great indicator of this) and weapons, so there needs to be strict guidelines that should be followed when changing things like this, and what the escalation procedures are, including getting in touch with the family of the individual and obviously them via the police or some sort of welfare group.

 

[mrposhman]

You think the Terrorist who is Muslim is worried about the things you're talking about?
The mob is most likely furious because their priest got stabbed & nearly murdered right in front of them.

I tend to agree with that but then why were they attacking police and ambulance crews. IMO thats a despicable response from them for people that are actually there to try and help.

 

[Tigers of Old]

I tend to agree with that but then why were they attacking police and ambulance crews. IMO thats a despicable response from them for people that are actually there to try and help.

As I have said already no doubt that was wrong. Whilst would have been extremely traumatic to witness the initial violence in their church, I'm not excusing that behaviour towards police & ambulance whatsoever.

 

[MD Jazz]

Maybe I was a bit harsh with the way I worded it but there needs to be specific follow up guidelines of what happens when you change meds, and also needs to include when police are involved to do welfare checks.

From all reports the meds that Cauci was on were working for nearly 20 years of his life, and as he was doing so well (there is a lot about how you describe the guy you know and Cauci - both very smart) but when changing meds things can change very quickly. I'm not sure if there is a specific set of guidelines to follow, but there needs to be follow up appointments with the doctor when things change (and I understand Cauci stopped going to his doctor) but where were the red flags for him? Surely this should include police intervention as a prevention measure for the community?

Ie. go off the meds, stop seeing your doctor, then we need someone to go and do a welfare check on the guy.

They can have meds but how does anyone ensure they take them? This guy lives alone with very little support. Not even sure he would see a doctor.

I have a few friends with depression, often they start feeling great and stop taking meds. They then go downhill. Can have some awful depressive episodes. Back on meds.

 

[thegdog]

I tend to agree with that but then why were they attacking police and ambulance crews. IMO thats a despicable response from them for people that are actually there to try and help.

Besides the stabber, Every rioter - A disgrace to the human race. Politicians have destroyed the best country in the world.

 

[Baloo]

The Canadian priest is a complete nutjob and no doubt upset many, but the attack has been declared a terrorist attack by police.

 

[mrposhman]

They can have meds but how does anyone ensure they take them? This guy lives alone with very little support. Not even sure he would see a doctor.

I have a few friends with depression, often they start feeling great and stop taking meds. They then go downhill. Can have some awful depressive episodes. Back on meds.

He WAS seeing a doctor, his family confirmed it. The doctor thought he was doing better, so decided to start to wean him off the meds he was on (that were working but the doctor thought he might not need them any longer). He then stopped going to the doctor and his family said his behaviour changed and he moved away. The rest is history.

My concern with this, is whats the escalation process if this action happens to another patient, and they then stop going to the doctor. Who does welfare checks? Anyone? I'd hazard a guess not, but this highlights how inaction can increase risks to the public. Had welfare checks been done, even his dad said he moved back in with them and they found a whole bunch of knives which is dad confiscated them from him and he got angry and ultimately moved out again. From what the family said, they did everything they could to help him, but the system seems to have failed him.

Its all well and good changing treatment methods, but then what happens if they stop taking them. What escalation steps exist for the doctor. It can't just be that they are forgotten about, there has to be a process that protects the individual as well as the community around them.

 

[Sintiger]

You think the Terrorist who is Muslim is worried about the things you're talking about?
The mob is most likely furious because their priest got stabbed & nearly murdered right in front of them.

No I don't and I didn't say he did so please don't put words in my mouth. He is clearly a very disturbed boy.

These people outside the church grew in number after the incident mainly and it was a very dangerous situation. All I am saying is this guy attracts a lunatic fringe, have a read at what he has been saying and preaching. That's dangerous and why the Islamic community has been very fast in damage limitation and condemnation.

 

[spook]

I'm not sure how you got from this:

Besides the stabber, Every rioter - A disgrace to the human race.

to this?

Politicians have destroyed the best country in the world.

 

[TigerMasochist]

I always thought it was 6 states but my maths is a little rusty

Old fart musta left Tassie off the map or missed counting a finger or something. Doesn't change the point though, Ausnalia's a three ring circus when it comes to trying to get anything done.
Set of federal rules, individual sets of state rules, more sets of local council rules and never the twain shall meet, yet they all overlap and impose on one another. You're not going to ping me for not counting enough again are ya Sin?

 

[Sintiger]

Old fart musta left Tassie off the map or missed counting a finger or something. Doesn't change the point though, Ausnalia's a three ring circus when it comes to trying to get anything done.
Set of federal rules, individual sets of state rules, more sets of local council rules and never the twain shall meet, yet they all overlap and impose on one another. You're not going to ping me for not counting enough again are ya Sin?

I just thought it was funny TM, glad you could laugh !!

Always said that if we were putting Australia together again we wouldn't do it this way because we have too many layers of government, massively over governed. The states should only be for sheffield shield cricket and state of origin footy.

There are multiple examples of waste and issues because of the states, in health, education, transport, the courts and the police. This is an example of that.

 

[Sintiger]

He WAS seeing a doctor, his family confirmed it. The doctor thought he was doing better, so decided to start to wean him off the meds he was on (that were working but the doctor thought he might not need them any longer). He then stopped going to the doctor and his family said his behaviour changed and he moved away. The rest is history.

My concern with this, is whats the escalation process if this action happens to another patient, and they then stop going to the doctor. Who does welfare checks? Anyone? I'd hazard a guess not, but this highlights how inaction can increase risks to the public. Had welfare checks been done, even his dad said he moved back in with them and they found a whole bunch of knives which is dad confiscated them from him and he got angry and ultimately moved out again. From what the family said, they did everything they could to help him, but the system seems to have failed him.

Its all well and good changing treatment methods, but then what happens if they stop taking them. What escalation steps exist for the doctor. It can't just be that they are forgotten about, there has to be a process that protects the individual as well as the community around them.

Just a comment/observation

He had moved outside the public health system to a private psychiatrist which is interesting because those guys cost a bomb. To see one he would also have needed a referral, maybe he got that from the public health system or maybe a GP.

If someone stops going to a private psychiatrist it would be very unlikely to be followed up unless he was considered dangerous. It is far more likely for follow up to happen if he was in the public system and stopped going to mental health outpatient services but even then the resources are so stretched it may not happen.

It is a very good point you make but the resources in this space are very limited, mental health patients fall through the cracks all the time unfortunately. If someone has heart problems and stops getting treatment what's the consequences, the person may die, but in mental health this sort of event is the risk.

 

[Tigers of Old]

No I don't and I didn't say he did so please don't put words in my mouth. He is clearly a very disturbed boy.

These people outside the church grew in number after the incident mainly and it was a very dangerous situation. All I am saying is this guy attracts a lunatic fringe, have a read at what he has been saying and preaching. That's dangerous and why the Islamic community has been very fast in damage limitation and condemnation.

All good. Also want to apologise for having a bit of a crack earlier. Wound up a bit tight myself with all these incidents going on.

 

[MD Jazz]

Just a comment/observation

He had moved outside the public health system to a private psychiatrist which is interesting because those guys cost a bomb. To see one he would also have needed a referral, maybe he got that from the public health system or maybe a GP.

If someone stops going to a private psychiatrist it would be very unlikely to be followed up unless he was considered dangerous. It is far more likely for follow up to happen if he was in the public system and stopped going to mental health outpatient services but even then the resources are so stretched it may not happen.

It is a very good point you make but the resources in this space are very limited, mental health patients fall through the cracks all the time unfortunately. If someone has heart problems and stops getting treatment what's the consequences, the person may die, but in mental health this sort of event is the risk.

You can get a mental health plan from your GP and get a discount for 10 sessions per year with a psychiatrist/psychologist. But yeh, a private physician is around $220 plus per hour. If you are not working that is simply unaffordable.

And as you say, unless you present as some sort of danger to society the minute you stop attending nothing would be done by that treating physician.

 

[Sintiger]

All good. Also want to apologise for having a bit of a crack earlier. Wound up a bit tight myself with all these incidents going on.

No issue at all . My original comment was lacking in detail when I looked at it and was open to misinterpretation.

 

[Sintiger]

You can get a mental health plan from your GP and get a discount for 10 sessions per year with a psychiatrist/psychologist. But yeh, a private physician is around $220 plus per hour. If you are not working that is simply unaffordable.

And as you say, unless you present as some sort of danger to society the minute you stop attending nothing would be done by that treating physician.

That's cheap for a psychiatrist. I know someone who paid a $600 gap fee (on top of private cover) for a private Psychiatrist consultation and waited 4 months to get an appointment.

He must have seen a psychiatrist and not a psychologist because a psychologist can't prescribe meds, they aren't doctors.

 

[mrposhman]

Just a comment/observation

He had moved outside the public health system to a private psychiatrist which is interesting because those guys cost a bomb. To see one he would also have needed a referral, maybe he got that from the public health system or maybe a GP.

If someone stops going to a private psychiatrist it would be very unlikely to be followed up unless he was considered dangerous. It is far more likely for follow up to happen if he was in the public system and stopped going to mental health outpatient services but even then the resources are so stretched it may not happen.

It is a very good point you make but the resources in this space are very limited, mental health patients fall through the cracks all the time unfortunately. If someone has heart problems and stops getting treatment what's the consequences, the person may die, but in mental health this sort of event is the risk.

Good points and it probably points as you say to an underfunding issue within our society but with more and more people being diagnosed with mental health conditions we need to have processed in place to make sure that the patient and the public are protected. Clearly this guy wasn't of sound mind, 1 of the French people that challenged him with the bollard claimed that his eyes looked blank I think was the expression, like no-ones home, but bearing in mind they had his condition controlled, there has to be some way that we change the system to protect both the patient and the public from changes to their condition. Only funding and increasing employment in this area will that be addressed but maybe it will now be at the forefront of policy.