Thoroughbred racing | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
  • IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.

Thoroughbred racing

Tiger44

Tiger Superstar
Sep 23, 2005
1,163
359
Fairly average day but didn't do too much damage to the bank balance. Didn't take the quinella as went off the Japanese horse after the barrier draw. Vow and Declare was 3 wide the trip but did have cover - thought he had his chance. Will get the 2 miles so must be a live chance against the internationals.

No idea re Cox Plate at this stage - will wait until final field and barriers.

Go Tigers

T44
 

eZyT

Tiger Legend
Jun 28, 2019
21,434
25,776
I am genuinely confused by the absence of a coherent counter argument on the current thoroughbred mistreatment story.

I reckon Im pretty well placed to have an objective opinion on the this one; I've been a thoroughbred punter for 40 years, I was a vegetarian for 15 years for ethical reasons (these days I stick to wild caught fish, grass-fed beef and free range chicken) and now Im a beef producer.

In the 7.30 story, I didn't really see any acts of cruelty, unless you consider quick clinical slaughter cruel. There was footage of a slaughter man disrespecting the carcass of an animal with a kick, which I dont condone, but its hardly paradigm shifting. Slaughtermen are not gentle souls as a rule.

I can entirely understand the argument from animal liberationists, vegetarians, vegans. They dont eat meat and generally wouldn't feed their dogs meat, so all slaughter is bad. Consistent and reasonable argument from that perspective. I respect their viewpoint and would not seek to marginalise them because I like a punt.

But the rest of society? I honestly can't see a logical reason why a racehorse should die of old age in a paddock, but a laying hen, a dairy cow, a beef cow, a lamb, a pig are fair game for the BBQ.

Like I said, Im not arguing that horses love to race and are pampered and its all rosy. Not at all. I'm simply confounded by the unchallenged differentiation between horse meat and other meat.

Its cultural right? same as we frown at the Vietnamese for eating dogs (tried some when I was there, along with horse tripe. The dog meat was possibly the most disgusting tasting thing ever to pass my lips but that probably cultural too)

Is it a carefully calculated, emotive and well-timed ambit claim? I suspect so. Fair enough. I'd just like to see someone marketable, say Francesca Cumani, eating a chicken burger in the parade ring. Maybe a lovely looking flame grilled Rhode Island Red thigh of a hen who could run faster than all the other hens with a graceful gait and a proud conformation.

I am philosophically of the view that, if the animal is in abundance (i.e not a whale or a pangolin), meat is meat.

and yes, the meat should be unequivocally well treated en route to the plate and this is often not the case in the racing industry.

what do you bloke reckon?
 
Last edited:

Tiger44

Tiger Superstar
Sep 23, 2005
1,163
359
I am genuinely confused by the absence of a coherent counter argument on the current thoroughbred mistreatment story.

I reckon Im pretty well placed to have an objective opinion on the this one; I've been a thoroughbred punter for 40 years, I was a vegetarian for 15 years for ethical reasons (these days I stick to wild caught fish, grass-fed beef and free range chicken) and now Im a beef producer.

In the 7.30 story, I didn't really see any acts of cruelty, unless you consider quick clinical slaughter cruel. There was footage of a slaughter man disrespecting the carcass of an animal with a kick, which I dont condone, but its hardly paradigm shifting. Slaughtermen are not gentle souls as a rule.

I can entirely understand the argument from animal liberationists, vegetarians, vegans. They dont eat meat and generally wouldn't feed their dogs meat, so all slaughter is bad. Consistent and reasonable argument from that perspective. I respect their viewpoint and would not seek to marginalise them because I like a punt.

But the rest of society? I honestly can't see a logical reason why a racehorse should die of old age in a paddock, but a laying hen, a dairy cow, a beef cow, a lamb, a pig are fair game for the BBQ.

Like I said, Im not arguing that horses love to race and are pampered and its all rosy. Not at all. I'm simply confounded by the unchallenged differentiation between horse meat and other meat.

Its cultural right? same as we frown at the Vietnamese for eating dogs (tried some when I was there, along with horse tripe. The dog meat was possibly the most disgusting tasting thing ever to pass my lips but that probably cultural too)

Is it a carefully calculated, emotive and well-timed ambit claim? I suspect so. Fair enough. I'd just like to see someone marketable, say Francesca Cumani, eating a chicken burger in the parade ring. Maybe a lovely looking flame grilled Rhode Island Red thigh of a hen who could run faster than all the other hens with a graceful gait and a proud conformation.

I am philosophically of the view that, if the animal is in abundance (i.e not a whale or a pangolin), meat is meat.

and yes, the meat should be unequivocally well treated en route to the plate and this is often not the case in the racing industry.

what do you bloke reckon?

Like your thinking Ezy. The things that astounds me is all these people coming out all up in arms about this. It has been happening for as long as I can remember (bit like the live baiting thing with the dishlickers). If people didn't realize it then they must live with their heads in the sand!

Also annoying is the current crop of positive spin stories about how well treated horses are - we don't need this. Accept the treatment is what it is and move on.

All this is doing is giving animal liberationists a platform and the timing is of course at the peak of exposure to the horse world. Bring it up in June next year and wouldn't get a mention in the first ten pages of news.

Have raced horses all my adult life - most slow (like me) and I am sure very few have been treated to a life of leisure in a lush paddock and a warm rug. That is life. No one wants to see any animal mistreated but there is always a cost benefit analysis.

Surprised GWS or Adelaide supporters haven't come out and complained about how we destroyed them mercilessly in the GF's!

T44
 

eZyT

Tiger Legend
Jun 28, 2019
21,434
25,776
Time to start the Cox Plate discussion.

How come Lys Grasiuex hasn't had a start in 8 weeks,

but only in the last week, she just has to turn up and she wins?

Is it group-think on steroids?

I reckon she's a very good horse and a huge chance, but she's shorter than Winx in 2015?

Ive read that her times over 2000 are seconds superior to the rest, but also read that the Japanese clock starts a length out of the barriers and stops a length before the winning post! Surely that cannot be true? Anyone?
 

LeeToRainesToRoach

Tiger Legend
Jun 4, 2006
33,186
11,546
Melbourne
In the 7.30 story, I didn't really see any acts of cruelty, unless you consider quick clinical slaughter cruel. There was footage of a slaughter man disrespecting the carcass of an animal with a kick, which I dont condone, but its hardly paradigm shifting. Slaughtermen are not gentle souls as a rule.

I'd only heard about it and figured I didn't need to watch animals being tortured. But if that's all it was - abattoirs being abattoirs - then this controversy is way overblown.

For those crying foul - what do they think their pets eat?

Now Lloyd Williams is chiming in with a call for a complete whip ban.
 

Tiger44

Tiger Superstar
Sep 23, 2005
1,163
359
Time to start the Cox Plate discussion.

How come Lys Grasiuex hasn't had a start in 8 weeks,

but only in the last week, she just has to turn up and she wins?

Is it group-think on steroids?

I reckon she's a very good horse and a huge chance, but she's shorter than Winx in 2015?

Ive read that her times over 2000 are seconds superior to the rest, but also read that the Japanese clock starts a length out of the barriers and stops a length before the winning post! Surely that cannot be true? Anyone?
Damian Lane apparently said she is the best horse he has sat on and was lengths better than last weeks Caulfield Cup winner. That alone must make her hard to beat. To add to that I think the rest of the field are an even bunch (MJ the best of them in my opinion) Lys Grasiuex has drawn wide but I think will race forward and may just be too good for them.
 

tigerman

It's Tiger Time
Mar 17, 2003
24,151
19,620
I'm filthy that Humidor didn't get a start in the Cox Plate, he's had 2 starts an the Valley, both in the Cox Plate, for a 2nd and a 3rd. He runs well there, the track suits him.
 

eZyT

Tiger Legend
Jun 28, 2019
21,434
25,776
I'm filthy that Humidor didn't get a start in the Cox Plate, he's had 2 starts an the Valley, both in the Cox Plate, for a 2nd and a 3rd. He runs well there, the track suits him.

I feel for anyone who backed him all-in,

but I agree with the committee that X0005 isnt a cox plate form line.

I dont follow Japanese racing at all, but on times Lys Gracieux beats Winx in all 3 cox plates by a minimum of 3 lengths.

Can someone explain this to me? Or is she going to win on Saturday by 9 lengths?
 

LeeToRainesToRoach

Tiger Legend
Jun 4, 2006
33,186
11,546
Melbourne
I feel for anyone who backed him all-in,

but I agree with the committee that X0005 isnt a cox plate form line.

I dont follow Japanese racing at all, but on times Lys Gracieux beats Winx in all 3 cox plates by a minimum of 3 lengths.

Can someone explain this to me? Or is she going to win on Saturday by 9 lengths?

Pretty sure the clock starts in front of the gates, after the horses are up to speed; e.g. a 2000m race might actually be 2020m, but only the last 2000 is timed.

The figures are approximate for illustration, but you get the idea.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

eZyT

Tiger Legend
Jun 28, 2019
21,434
25,776
Pretty sure the clock starts in front of the gates, after the horses are up to speed; e.g. a 2000m race might actually be 2020m, but only the last 2000 is timed.

The figures are approximate for illustration, but you get the idea.

yeah that what I read but couldn't quite believe. The same story I read says the clock stops before the winning post so as not to interfere with the camera.

Sounds very odd from the nation that brought us some pretty good cameras and clocks?

I think the fast tracks they race on makes time comparisons difficult too.

Jeez I wish they had taken Winx to the Japan Cup or similar.
 

tigerman

It's Tiger Time
Mar 17, 2003
24,151
19,620
I feel for anyone who backed him all-in,

but I agree with the committee that X0005 isnt a cox plate form line.

I dont follow Japanese racing at all, but on times Lys Gracieux beats Winx in all 3 cox plates by a minimum of 3 lengths.

Can someone explain this to me? Or is she going to win on Saturday by 9 lengths?

A lot of variables ezy, depends how she handles the track, and the track conditions with the rain that's forecast. She had a rating of 124 winning her last start, which is what MJ rated at as a 3yo last year.

Humidor got injured in last years Cox Plate in which he ran 3rd. He came back 10 months later after missing the Autumn, and got better with each run.
He was a head off finishing 3rd in his last start in the Caulfield Stakes.
Oh well Verry Elleegant will kick their brains in.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

eZyT

Tiger Legend
Jun 28, 2019
21,434
25,776
Japan Racing Association.

":This is a broad explanation of how we time the Japan Cup. The race is run over 2400m. The starting line is placed 5m ahead of the stalls, therefore the distance from the stalls and the winning post is of a total of 2405m. However, we start timing the race 1m before the starting line (4m after the stalls) until 1m before the winning post.
The reason why we cannot put the auto chronometer on the winning post line, is because there are already the photo finish camera and its mirror placed there. So we moved it one meter behind and the same for the start line to keep the same distance."
 

Jake

Tiger Superstar
Apr 2, 2005
1,998
1,206
I'm filthy that Humidor didn't get a start in the Cox Plate, he's had 2 starts an the Valley, both in the Cox Plate, for a 2nd and a 3rd. He runs well there, the track suits him.

Another thing why would they trial him on a heavy 10. seems weird.

 

tigerman

It's Tiger Time
Mar 17, 2003
24,151
19,620
Rail in the true position at the Valley tonight, the track looked to play ok, a few leaders winning and a few coming from back in the field.

Will be interesting to see how the track plays tomorrow.
 

Leysy Days

Tiger Legend
Feb 26, 2004
21,331
7,933
Happy Mystic Journey day everyone!!!

Cmon the little Tassie champ, put them to the sword!!

Have a gazillion bonus bets loaded up into her all spring.

Be positive Damma! Do that and she can absolutely win.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

tigerman

It's Tiger Time
Mar 17, 2003
24,151
19,620
Good luck to MJ’s supporters, i’m taking her in a quinella with the favourite.
Taking D Lane all up, except for R1.

Edit

I have included Verry Elleegant in my quinella, her and MJ have drawn to get a good run.
 
Last edited: