U.S Presidential Election

[DavidSSS]

You know the one thing my British mates seem to have observed here, compared to the UK (where voting is obviously voluntary). As you quite rightly suggest, yes, people are encouraged to vote in a country like the UK. But because it’s not mandatory, there doesn’t seem to quite be the same saturation of voting booths.

By having a compulsory vote, the AEC have made it their mission that there will be saturation of voting booths. Give people no reason to not turn up seems to be the mantra.

I’ve worked at a lot of elections as a polling official (really enjoy it actually) and sometimes I think to myself that it could be done more efficiently and do away with a third or even half of the booths in some towns/cities. But that would be against the spirit of our system. The spin off of compulsory voting is that the system makes accessibility paramount. And that can only be a good thing.

I have ambivalent feelings towards compulsory voting. But the good outweighs the bad from my experience. The compromise would be like you say, perhaps make it more publicised that it’s only compulsory to get one’s name ticked off and hence, their right to put a blank form in the box if they so wish.

The other point I’d extend on, when you’re comparing our electoral system to the US. It’s not just that there is no consistency from state to state in the US. I believe that they don’t even have a neutral, independent electoral commission. The entire system is run by the political parties themselves. Hence the propensity for gerrymandering. We of course have independent electoral commissions at both the federal and State/Territory levels. A crucial element to maintain electoral integrity.

I used to do poll clerking, not a bad gig, especially when I lived in a town where half the people couldn't vote until the sun was down so we had everything counted and were out of there quite early.

The way the US system is set up actually means an electoral commission like ours is not legal. It really is insane, but then again this is a country (or maybe just a collection of states) where they generally elect the equivalent of the crown prosecutor (district attorney) and in some places they literally do elect the sheriff and the dog catcher. In some states the ballot for President is different depending on which county you live in (hanging chads, remember them, only in 1 county in Florida) and in others they have a standard ballot for President. The Pres is elected indirectly. They have voting machines which are ancient (gee, what could go wrong there?). It is a mess.

DS

 

[Panthera Tigris]

I used to do poll clerking, not a bad gig, especially when I lived in a town where half the people couldn't vote until the sun was down so we had everything counted and were out of there quite early.

The way the US system is set up actually means an electoral commission like ours is not legal. It really is insane, but then again this is a country (or maybe just a collection of states) where they generally elect the equivalent of the crown prosecutor (district attorney) and in some places they literally do elect the sheriff and the dog catcher. In some states the ballot for President is different depending on which county you live in (hanging chads, remember them, only in 1 county in Florida) and in others they have a standard ballot for President. The Pres is elected indirectly. They have voting machines which are ancient (gee, what could go wrong there?). It is a mess.

DS

They have ancient machines. But we can raise them ancient technology. A pencil and paper.

This is no criticism of the pencil and paper method. I think it might have been you David in another thread on economics and finance, that once put the case forward for paper being robust, tried and true technology, superior in many ways to the vast array of modern gadgets we as a society are so infatuated by. Or was it someone else (perhaps Baloo)? And I’m in 100% agreement.

 

[Baloo]

Or was it someone else (perhaps Baloo)? And I’m in 100% agreement.

Not me, I'd always be pushing the new technology, though you'd want it to be locally developed tech and rock solid secure. Maybe pencil and paper is better.

 

[Redford]

Vexatious litigant I believe the term is

See, I can always rely on you Wrathful Myrmecophile.

 

[Sintiger]

In recent primaries across the country, 85% of Trump backed candidates won, 151 out of 178. This is country wide; Bill Maher reported on it on his show Real Time with Bill Maher. Terrible indicator of the divide in this country and the depth of Trump support.

It actually shows the strength of Trump support in the Republican voters not beyond that.

 

[DavidSSS]

They have ancient machines. But we can raise them ancient technology. A pencil and paper.

This is no criticism of the pencil and paper method. I think it might have been you David in another thread on economics and finance, that once put the case forward for paper being robust, tried and true technology, superior in many ways to the vast array of modern gadgets we as a society are so infatuated by. Or was it someone else (perhaps Baloo)? And I’m in 100% agreement.

Likely me, I often say to people that paper is compelling technology.

Pencil and paper is great for elections. You would know as a poll clerk that you count the votes with scrutineers watching. If I wanted to rig an election I'd want a computer, can change thousands of votes at once. Paper ballots? Far more difficult. Can't change the votes. If you chuck a pile of them out then nothing adds up and you would have the election nullified.

I work with a lot of systems in my job, the claim that they save us time is laughable. I spend so much time messing around with rubbish that you would just cross out and rewrite on paper. The thing for me is use the technology suited to the task. Pencil and paper for ballots is the right technology.

DS

 

[Batchelor Party]

It actually shows the strength of Trump support in the Republican voters not beyond that.

Correct, but it indicates the issues that are important to Republican voters (stolen 2020 election, anti immigrant, abortion rights) and reinforces the division in the country.

 

[glantone]

It actually shows the strength of Trump support in the Republican voters not beyond that.

True but the die is cast. There's no rolling back the conviction in Trumps alternate reality. The US continues to divide. The democrats can not stay in power forever. And when they lose government it will be a different america and world.

 

[Sintiger]

Correct, but it indicates the issues that are important to Republican voters (stolen 2020 election, anti immigrant, abortion rights) and reinforces the division in the country.

True but the die is cast. There's no rolling back the conviction in Trumps alternate reality. The US continues to divide. The democrats can not stay in power forever. And when they lose government it will be a different america and world.

I know quite of lot of Americans and I am still in contact with quite a few and all of them hate Trump with a passion. Their hope is that there is sufficient support for anti Trump forces outside the Republican party because all of them that I talk to have no faith in the republicans and some of them are republicans ( or ex ones)

I was emailing with an American friend I have known for years a few months ago about it and he admitted he is scared of the future in the US. He is worried that the time running into the next election will bring violence and if Trump runs and loses maybe even worse. This is a person not prone to hyperbole.

 

[Batchelor Party]

I know quite of lot of Americans and I am still in contact with quite a few and all of them hate Trump with a passion. Their hope is that there is sufficient support for anti Trump forces outside the Republican party because all of them that I talk to have no faith in the republicans and some of them are republicans ( or ex ones)

I was emailing with an American friend I have known for years a few months ago about it and he admitted he is scared of the future in the US. He is worried that the time running into the next election will bring violence and if Trump runs and loses maybe even worse. This is a person not prone to hyperbole.

I moved to the US in 1995 and it's never been more polarized. Trump's "genius" has been to command absolute devotion to whatever he believes. Stolen elections, voter fraud, witch hunts against him and his family, you can't even have a decent political discussion with a Trump supporter. The ones I've met aren't willing to concede that anything he says is open to question. Election season may turn violent.

 

[Panthera Tigris]

Like;y me, I often say to people that paper is compelling technology.

Pencil and paper is great for elections. You would know as a poll clerk that you count the votes with scrutineers watching. If I wanted to rig an election I'd want a computer, can change thousands of votes at once. Paper ballots? Far more difficult. Can't change the votes. If you chuck a pile of them out then nothing adds up and you would have the election nullified.

I work with a lot of systems in my job, the claim that they save us time is laughable. I spend so much time messing around with rubbish that you would just cross out and rewrite on paper. The thing for me is use the technology suited to the task. Pencil and paper for ballots is the right technology.

DS

Working at elections, I have lost count of the amount of times that people ask the question, "Why use pencils? Youse go and rub it out and change it don'tchya!" Or variations of this. Similar to what you suggest, can you imagine actually being able to physically do this with all of the people in the room (Commission officials, scrutineers etc) watching over you? Near impossible.

Apparently pencils are for both integrity reasons and practicality. I was at a session where the head Tasmanian Electoral Commissioner was giving a talk about it. The logic is, when paper documents are stored, pen over time is more susceptible to fading. So if one needed to go and look back at past elections in 20-30 years time or what have you, there is the chance that some ballot forms will have faded. Pencil can fade too, but it has the added benefit that it etches the writing into the paper - ball point pens tend not to. From a practicality perspective, pencils can be used over and over again, for election after election until they become too short. So at the end of one election, you pack them up, store them and bring them out again probably for a decade before replacement. Pens would get stored and possibly seize up and not even work after being stored away for multiple years.

Once again, sometimes old ways of doing things are more compelling. To use your quote, "paper (and pencils in this example) is compelling technology." Newer and more technologically advanced is not always better by default, as we are often hoodwinked into believing.

 

[spook]

Yeah, well. I still want a hoverboard.

 

[Baloo]

Yeah, well. I still want a hoverboard.

 

[TigerMasochist]

You know how here in Australia you can be classified a legal pest or whatever it’s called (ie suing someone for something every 5 mins without substance) then don’t they have something similar in the US ?

Vexatious litigant? No such thing in septic land. Them bastards thrive on suing the *smile* out of everything.

 

[shad]

An interesting article about low level politics in the US. Not really to do with the mid-term elections but the story reads like a plot from a Micheal connelly novel.

 

[IanG]

This is what the Murdochracy and Trump lead to:

Paul Pelosi had surgery for skull fracture after home attack

The House speaker was not in San Francisco at the time.

www.axios.com

 

[tigerman]

This is what the Murdochracy and Trump lead to:

Paul Pelosi had surgery for skull fracture after home attack

The House speaker was not in San Francisco at the time.

www.axios.com

We can expect Trump to come out and say........if Paul Pelosi had a gun, he could've take the intruder out with a gut shot.

 

[Legends of 2017]

We can expect Trump to come out and say........if Paul Pelosi had a gun, he could've take the intruder out with a gut shot.

More like “ if the election wasn’t stolen this wouldn’t have happened. The police would have stopped this before it happened. Nobody has done more for law enforcement than me. Etc etc “

 

[Tigers of Old]

We can expect Trump to come out and say........if Paul Pelosi had a gun, he could've take the intruder out with a gut shot.

Trump has said nothing about this attempted murder. The silence is deafening.

 

[Baloo]

Democrats slam Kevin McCarthy over joke about hitting Speaker Nancy Pelosi with gavel

The Republican minority leader was widely criticized for a joke about hitting Speaker Pelosi with a gavel at a Tennessee GOP fundraiser.

www.usatoday.com