Noah played a totally different role to what Rhyan and Seth do. Seth and Rhyan play high half forwards and hit up to the back flank. Noah barely left the forward 50. Played better as a target today. Steely played the high half forward role for the VFL team a role I think he's slightly undersized for.
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Welcome Noah Cumberland
- Thread starter Berwick boy
- Start date
Agree with all of this. I like Cumbo, and hope he gets his opportunity sometime this season. But.
Right now, I don't feel confident when he has the ball. And that's at VFL level. Consistent, he is not.
Why's Campbell been getting opportunities ahead of him? Because he plays a very different role, his pre-season and early form warranted it, and we seem to be giving kids a block of games to build experience. This isn't a bad thing - I'm sure all the Cumbofans would want him to get a guaranteed block of 4 games too, to help him avoid the pressure of playing every game like it's his last. Is Campbell ready for a spell in the 2s? Yeah, probably. Is Cumbo the obvious replacement? Or is it Banks? Or Coulthard?
Why's Mansell been getting games ahead of him? Again, pre-season and early form warranted it, and his pressure game has been miles above anything Cumbo has dished up, at least up until the last couple of weeks. And he's a million percent less flaky. The coaches know what they're going to get with Mansell each and every week. Cumbo is a lottery.
If Cumbo wants Mansell's spot (and frankly I can't see him taking anyone elses), I reckon he needs to show he can play at least to the level of the last couple of weeks on a consistent basis. And then I hope he gets a block of 4 guaranteed. That's not holding him to higher standards than anyone else, that's holding him to the same standard.
I think its likely that the roles they play are slightly different, as in Mansell gets right up the ground. At times this year we've had him coming in from the defensive side of the centre bounce. Thats not Cumbos gig. Thats not to say that we shouldn't have a player like Noah in the team, but both Mansell and Campbell play much higher up the ground than we see of Cumbo, which suits Coulthard or Green coming in for them IMO more than Noah, so it comes down to the role we expect them to play.
Take a look at these heat maps of when Mansell gets his disposals and its clear the role that he's playing.
Player Summary - DFS Australia
AFL Fantasy stats by year, including player and team records going back as far as the 2012 season.
dfsaustralia.com
I think some of this is why we aren't as dangerous going inside 50 as we should be at the moment though, as we are deliberately trying to push up the ground to open up the F50 when we can. When teams don't necessarily follow us like melbourne didn't last week, they just left players back to double team it stunts out ability to score. Ie. we go higher up the ground and win more ball, aim to drag opponents up the ground to get our taller forwards 1 on 1. If this doesn't happen, we end up with more players around the ball and can win the ball easier up the field, but then have lower numbers than the opposition when we move inside 50, therefore those that leave players back can intercept at will.
If you look at Seths heat maps as well, last week he more resembled a winger than a forward.
And they are not doing a good job at it. We have no key forwards with Balta and Lynch out and the MC has a smaller forward line to kick our goals. This is failing too but hey let's keep doing what's not working. I want to see Cumberland and Coulthard come in. Add a different dimension. The bottom line is we need goal kickers in that forward line and if you aint kicking goals as a small forward out you go.
Mansell and Campbell are not kicking goals and not putting any real pressure going by their numbers.
Re: who's spot could cumbo take - Yze said recently that MRJ's good form is part of reason cumbo isn't playing.
The point is, we are trying to open our forward line up and win the ball in the midfield. We don't have as good a midfield as pretty much anyone we are playing, so we are trying to get extra men in there to support our midfield and extract the ball. This means we have to surrender players in the forward line. Both Campbell and Mansell can do this, Cumbo can't.
The alternative is, we get smashed in the midfield, can't get the ball forward and our forward line still doesn't score but we also get scored much heavier against.
Unfortunately with the injuries we have, we won't be winning too many games, far too much quality out, but what we are trying to do is to stay in games. This gives the younger boys good experience, getting flogged every week, look no further than North for what will happen. I think we are making the right call, but that means surrendering more natural forwards for those that can roam further up the ground.
Look past the stats and look at heatmaps of how these boys are playing. You are comparing players in the VFL and AFL who are playing completely different roles, essentially extra wingers and comparing them to goal scoring forwards. Obviously those stats will look strange from an offensive point of view.
I think its likely that the roles they play are slightly different, as in Mansell gets right up the ground. At times this year we've had him coming in from the defensive side of the centre bounce. Thats not Cumbos gig. Thats not to say that we shouldn't have a player like Noah in the team, but both Mansell and Campbell play much higher up the ground than we see of Cumbo, which suits Coulthard or Green coming in for them IMO more than Noah, so it comes down to the role we expect them to play.
Take a look at these heat maps of when Mansell gets his disposals and its clear the role that he's playing.
Player Summary - DFS Australia
AFL Fantasy stats by year, including player and team records going back as far as the 2012 season.
I think some of this is why we aren't as dangerous going inside 50 as we should be at the moment though, as we are deliberately trying to push up the ground to open up the F50 when we can. When teams don't necessarily follow us like melbourne didn't last week, they just left players back to double team it stunts out ability to score. Ie. we go higher up the ground and win more ball, aim to drag opponents up the ground to get our taller forwards 1 on 1. If this doesn't happen, we end up with more players around the ball and can win the ball easier up the field, but then have lower numbers than the opposition when we move inside 50, therefore those that leave players back can intercept at will.
If you look at Seths heat maps as well, last week he more resembled a winger than a forward.
I do get what you're saying so it also falls back on the coaches as this strategy aint working. Mansell would be lucky to get a game in most teams.
Campbell, I rate and would be a good winger but he needs to go back to ressies and work on his game.
Quite simply lets play goal-kickers who can hit the scoreboard. Coulthard today looked good waltzing up the ground and has clean skills.
Cumbo in and around 50 would be a dangerous matchup as he's quick, and strong on the lead.
Anyway as I stated in a previous post if Mansell put up the numbers that Cumbo got today. With 14 disposals, 6 marks, 6 tackles and 7 shots on goal (1G and 6B) he would be lauded for his game. Cumbo is set to higher standards than others and you can't tell me otherwise.
Can’t “pot” Cumberland but you’re saying Mansell is fair game?
Hes not forcing Dusty out but that’s the position. If Dusty gets managed he may get an opportunity.
Cumbo can take any spot in the forward line who isn't performing. You can't have Campbell and Mansell dishing up subpar performances weeks on end and retaining their spots. Junior, Cumbo, and Coulthard that looks more dangerous than Junior, Mansell and Campbell.
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You always make good arguments Poshman, but suggesting Cumbo doesn’t get potted, or people are not potting him, is not one of them - and it has been pretty personal at times
Easy answer, Cumbo played well today and last week too so why pot him if he has had good games?
Now to add more clarity if Cumbo is playing *smile* 4 weeks in a row go for it. Mansell is average at best. Has kicked 3 goals in 7 games. The last 3 hasn't hit the scoreboard hence why I want him OUT
When we’re not winning we really should be turning the team over , that’s more older players I’d shove aside but youngsters like mansell and cambo needn’t have a mortgage on a spot yet
very much a Georgie kinda game by the Cummerbund yesterday. Had himself a serious load of nearly almost happening. First half was patchy n he could hardly get near it, second half he was all over it. Should have easily rewarded himself with a three or four goal game, but at least for all his nearly almost he never dropped the head n kept working hard. Thought he'd been shot again late in the last qtr when he got crunched under a marking pack n spent a few minutes gimping around n holding his back, but in true campaigner style he found a way to loosen up n keep working to the end of the game. Surprised by comments that he doesn't get up the ground n simply plays in our forward fifty. See him in most games chasing and working through the midfield up to our defensive 50 at times.
Mansell is the defensive fwd.Has to work o/time to make up for Dustys lack of.
Ever heard of the defensive fwd?You should we had a few over the past 6yrs.
Thats a Strange theory.A team manager having the last say on team selection.If Yze allows that then he shouldn't be coach.
Bingo. Dusty's current AFL role is the role Cumberland plays at VFL level.
Yes have heard of defensive forward looked it up and Mansell just doesn’t get a mention
His title is General Manager – Football Performance IMO he has too much power on team selection
What else could explain why it’s still going on under our third coach?
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