Welcome Tom Brown

[Brodders17]

Which begs the question why draft Brown when you already have the cattle in his position? Why wait 5 years before the opportunities start to present themselves for him - especially as a half back that shouldnt have to wait so long to develop? that could be half of his career gone by then and other gaping holes left open.

Because you dont pick players for their impact in yr 1 or 2. You pick them for their whole career. he is entering yr 3, not sure why you are talking about 5 years. and not sure how half his career could be gone.

 

[Don’t Argue]

No preseason? At Glenelg? I am pretty sure Glenelg would do a preseason.

He also played his first game in the Richmond VFL in rd 11, same as Brown.

He plays in a position we were lacking and is 2 years older than Brown.

Im not sure your point, other than deflecting from your previous post that said Brown should have been picked to replace Broad when he was suspended (except Brown had a broken wrist) and that he should have been picked to replace Vlastuin and Broad for all the games they missed (except neither of them missed a game once Brown was fit.)

I concede I got my timings wrong and looks like he was still injured so couldnt have replaced injured or suspended players before Round 11.
Coulthard came from a part time football environment at a local club and only played a couple of games for Glenelg reserves. He was also injured for almost the entire previous season. Not ideal preparation for stepping into a senior AFL environment and being elevated to the seniors, whilst Brown came from elite talent pathways since U/16 where they are hand picked to develop into professional football players. Think he had a distinct advantage over Coulthard development wise.
In the end Coulthard was selected because he was good enough. Not because we had no one else.
Anyway Brown hopefully makes selection for Round 0 and shines to forever shut me up.

 

[Don Fraser]

Great footballer but reckon MM was more fast twitch, dynamic.

Matty Knights was nonchalance par excellence.....except in that Bulldogs game.

Matthew Rogers?

 

[eZyT]

No preseason? At Glenelg? I am pretty sure Glenelg would do a preseason.

Div 1 very different to a div 2 preseason brodders

One would be 10hrs/week, the other 20-30.

Thats not to say some div 1 blokes wouldnt bludge and sit on play station for 40 hours while the div 2 blokes mix concrete.

But very, very, different beasts

 

[The_General]

Which begs the question why draft Brown when you already have the cattle in his position? Why wait 5 years before the opportunities start to present themselves for him - especially as a half back that shouldnt have to wait so long to develop? that could be half of his career gone by then and other gaping holes left open.

I think that's the crux of the angst. Is it Brown that's the issue or the fact we didn't need him and could really have used Van Helsing instead. I can certainly understand the frustration and confusion, but that's a Clark issue, not a Brown issue. It is odd.
I think it comes down to the fact we thought we had two key forwards coming, and it back fired. If we had Ben King and Himmelberg on the list would folks care about Brown baking slowly in the reserves? I strongly doubt it.

 

[fastin bulbous]

best available is the supposed recruiting method, particularly in the first round. I think a few of us were surprised with brown at that pick but weren’t a few others circling? With vlastuin’s concussion issues we may see brown as a regular sooner rather than later.

 

[The_General]

best available is the supposed recruiting method, particularly in the first round. I think a few of us were surprised with brown at that pick but weren’t a few others circling? With vlastuin’s concussion issues we may see brown as a regular sooner rather than later.

Possible, but I certainly hope not. Nick is inspiring and I love the guy.

 

[toothless]

not sure why you are talking about 5 years.

If Brown makes it, I would expect him to start hitting his prime years from his fifth year.

and not sure how half his career could be gone.

A general statement, we don't know how long anyone's career will last.

 

[toothless]

If we had Ben King and Himmelberg on the list would folks care about Brown baking slowly in the reserves? I strongly doubt it.

It's possible, Hairy Hindenburg is better as a defender as he's rightfully playing there now permanently. While King is spudding it up at Gold Coke, neither come close to Jack (neither will Van Hoogenband for that matter but he is exactly the type of player we are crying out for). King reportedly on a mil & Hindenberg on $800k would push those numbers even higher so I'm personally glad we didn't go down that path.

 

[eZyT]

. I can certainly understand the frustration and confusion, but that's a Clark issue, not a Brown issue. It is odd.

If we had Ben King and Himmelberg on the list would folks care about Brown baking slowly in the reserves? I strongly doubt it.

getting pretty circular now.

I strenuously said 'its not browns fault where he or anyone else was picked' at the outset,

I also outlined the bust declaration, whether premature or overdue, is aimed at the recruiter rather than the player.

then I made really explicit, how part of my BUST formulae was opportunity cost, including list needs not met.

now your pretty much saying what I said, after raging against it?

(in leiu of head scratch emoji)

 

[Don’t Argue]

getting pretty circular now.

I strenuously said 'its not browns fault where he or anyone else was picked' at the outset,

I also outlined the bust declaration, whether premature or overdue, is aimed at the recruiter rather than the player.

then I made really explicit, how part of my BUST formulae was opportunity cost, including list needs not met.

now your pretty much saying what I said, after raging against it?

(in leiu of head scratch emoji)

Welcome to the darkside @The_General

 

[momentai]

Not quite true mate.

Grimes was clearly crap last year for example. Graham was in before our run. I'd say he's not improved a lot since we got him. He came in ready, but had pretty much not improved significantly since then.
Bolton was held out for a while, despite frustration from PRE, due to some kinks in his game. The talent was there. But he wasn't exactly establish in his first 2 years. Higgins and Baker, came in on the back of a decline in performance by other smalls like Butler. If Butlers form hadn't dropped, do you really think they would have played before him?
Balta came in via necessity due to the Rance injury leaving us too short.
Of our young guys, I'm probably most disappointed in Banks and Clarke. I think our wings and small forwards last year were under performing. Ross was probably our best wing and I don't think that's his natural spot, despite liking him as a player.
Sonsie was kept out of our midfield whilst we toyed with going again, and his lack of fitness. Did the club overall get a benefit out of stretching Cotch to 300, when it could have gotten games into Sonsie for example etc?
As for Brown, his gig will be in defence from what I'm told. His spot would be taken in the 22 by Vlastuin and/or Broad. He wasn't a player we needed to draft for immediate returns. I think he's got AFL quality and a future, but he's doing an apprenticeship. I agree though, if he were an electrician, I'd like to see him doing more than wiring up PowerPoints and light switches by now.
But we were trying to eek out another finals run last year. I can confirm we're trying to do the same this year too. One last dice roll, before a "retooling of the list". If there's an established player from that era, unless the unpick themselves, they're going to have first dibs.

Where does this come from this last dice rule stuff? Poor decision if true.

 

[The_General]

Where does this come from this last dice rule stuff? Poor decision if true.

Well Hardwick wanted a last dance. He said it explicitly.
In terms of this year, we've still got roughly the same list. Reiwoldt was past it last year, but courageous for fighting on. As was Cotchin. The other loss was Soldo.
With a fit Lynch, Gibcus, and the core our of list still there (albeit older) the club don't think that we should be uncompetitive. However there's feeling Prestia, Grimes, etc will drop off after this year, so it's one last attempt.
Do you think the list is incapable of making finals?

 

[The_General]

getting pretty circular now.

I strenuously said 'its not browns fault where he or anyone else was picked' at the outset,

I also outlined the bust declaration, whether premature or overdue, is aimed at the recruiter rather than the player.

then I made really explicit, how part of my BUST formulae was opportunity cost, including list needs not met.

now your pretty much saying what I said, after raging against it?

(in leiu of head scratch emoji)

Sorry if you feel I'd I hurt your feelings EZ. Wasn't intentional.

No, didn't read the formula post. Sorry, but was written after I first quoted you I believe.
My posts anove are basically saying I understand the frustration. I can agree with that.

I just don't like folks giving up on our young fellas, especially with such a long time on his contract and with the absolute lack of support he's gotten from day 1. Imagine being his parents (or the player himself) and reading this stuff. I remember reading really similar things about Houli, B Ellis (not directly linked to any single poster). Folks give up too easily on our players here when the emotion kicks in.

Luckily the club have faith in him.

 

[The_General]

Welcome to the darkside @The_General

My wife always says I look good in black. I thought it was cause she's a big johnny cash fan...didn't know it suited my inner being too!

 

[eZyT]

Sorry if you feel I'd I hurt your feelings EZ. Wasn't intentional.

no feeling hurt no worries.

 

[DuD_Delist]

Sorry if you feel I'd I hurt your feelings EZ. Wasn't intentional.

No, didn't read the formula post. Sorry, but was written after I first quoted you I believe.
My posts anove are basically saying I understand the frustration. I can agree with that.

I just don't like folks giving up on our young fellas, especially with such a long time on his contract and with the absolute lack of support he's gotten from day 1. Imagine being his parents (or the player himself) and reading this stuff. I remember reading really similar things about Houli, B Ellis (not directly linked to any single poster). Folks give up too easily on our players here when the emotion kicks in.

Luckily the club have faith in him.

That kind of stuff drove George into retirement.

 

[momentai]

Well Hardwick wanted a last dance. He said it explicitly.
In terms of this year, we've still got roughly the same list. Reiwoldt was past it last year, but courageous for fighting on. As was Cotchin. The other loss was Soldo.
With a fit Lynch, Gibcus, and the core our of list still there (albeit older) the club don't think that we should be uncompetitive. However there's feeling Prestia, Grimes, etc will drop off after this year, so it's one last attempt.
Do you think the list is incapable of making finals?

I have us winning it of course.
But there is a need for a rebuild.
I agree with you that some of our older players have struggled and will continue to do so. The two you mention have already dropped off imo as have at least two others.
Unfortunately again imo that group pushing on and depriving younger players coming in, will cost us, with no changes likely early, and that time wasted.

 

[Tigers of Old]

Be interesting to see if he still gets picked this week. May do.

 

[Brodders17]

Anyway Brown hopefully makes selection for Round 0 and shines to forever shut me up.

You wont have to shut up (just acknowledge you were wrong and I, and others, were right!)