Boat Discussion | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Boat Discussion

tigersnake

Tear 'em apart
Sep 10, 2003
23,810
12,393
Sintiger said:
Yep spot on.

What almost disappoints me more than our politicians over this issue is that what seems like a majority of the Australian people don't care.

Yeah, its a slim majority, but a majority. Some decent leadership could, IMO, turn that slim majority into a slim minority, but won't be holding my breath on that one. Either way, the nation is polarised at the moment, and the extent to which politics widens that divide is debateable. I'd argue a lot at the moment. This whole 'saving lives at sea' justification is a complete hoax. Abbott's line, stuck record-style, is 'the most compassionate thing is to stop the boats'. Nobody really believes that, not even supporters of this heartless policy.
 

AngryAnt

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
27,180
15,090
The compassionate thing to do is for those people to not come here. They should go and die/suffer somewhere else, so it won't offend our sensibilities or make us feel like our quality of life is diminished.
 

KnightersRevenge

Baby Knighters is 7!! WTF??
Aug 21, 2007
6,787
1,229
Ireland
Azza said:
It's a good question, as part of a bigger debate about what population we should have, and how it should be sustained and catered for. It's a shame that neither major party wants to bite that bullet.

I have a feeling that is an academic question. No one is going to build houses and sewers and train lines for people that aren't here yet. Hell they aren't doing that for the people who are! The population will grow and the infrastrucure will expand to cope. It might be an interesting exercise to try to work out what resources would be required for certain levels of population but I would be surprised if it was within cooee of the actual numbers.
 

Azza

Tiger Champion
Aug 30, 2007
4,057
0
KnightersRevenge said:
I have a feeling that is an academic question. No one is going to build houses and sewers and train lines for people that aren't here yet. Hell they aren't doing that for the people who are! The population will grow and the infrastrucure will expand to cope. It might be an interesting exercise to try to work out what resources would be required for certain levels of population but I would be surprised if it was within cooee of the actual numbers.

All of the above is what is so wrong about planning in Australia. Horne was right about the Lucky Country (in his original sense).
 

1eyedtiger

Tiger Superstar
Jun 2, 2007
1,132
1
Talk of population is pointless unless you're prepared to take the necessary steps to enforce it. Whatever you do to enforce it will be seen as draconian.

For the boat people, I really don't know. The problems in their own countries need to be resolved eventually. At the moment, the only way I can see of doing that is to get all the innocent civilians out of the middle east, wipe out every human remaining, then send the civilians back and help them rebuild, without all the religious fanatics and psychos. Bringing them into Australia by itself isn't fixing the underlying issues. You're putting a band aid on a body riddled with cancer.
 

KnightersRevenge

Baby Knighters is 7!! WTF??
Aug 21, 2007
6,787
1,229
Ireland
1eyedtiger said:
Talk of population is pointless unless you're prepared to take the necessary steps to enforce it. Whatever you do to enforce it will be seen as draconian.

For the boat people, I really don't know. The problems in their own countries need to be resolved eventually. At the moment, the only way I can see of doing that is to get all the innocent civilians out of the middle east, wipe out every human remaining, then send the civilians back and help them rebuild, without all the religious fanatics and psychos. Bringing them into Australia by itself isn't fixing the underlying issues. You're putting a band aid on a body riddled with cancer.

Not cancer. More like multiple knife wounds. What you could do is offer a safe environment and a chance to get better. What this policy advocates is stepping over the body and saying, "I didn't stab her, it's not my problem".
 

Sintiger

Tiger Legend
Aug 11, 2010
18,667
18,818
Camberwell
1eyedtiger said:
Talk of population is pointless unless you're prepared to take the necessary steps to enforce it. Whatever you do to enforce it will be seen as draconian.

For the boat people, I really don't know. The problems in their own countries need to be resolved eventually. At the moment, the only way I can see of doing that is to get all the innocent civilians out of the middle east, wipe out every human remaining, then send the civilians back and help them rebuild, without all the religious fanatics and psychos. Bringing them into Australia by itself isn't fixing the underlying issues. You're putting a band aid on a body riddled with cancer.
Helping the people at source or even in the camps is one effective way of reducing movement of people looking for safety. So what is the Australian Governemnt reaction to that ? Oh yeah, lets cut 40% off the aid budget as well.
I know for a fact that these cuts have cut specific programs that have already started in refugee camps in the Middle East, in places like South Sudan and Somalia that were bringing sanitation, clean water and education to refugees, and whilst this is being cut we send $40 million to Cambodia to line the pockets of Hun Sen's cronies to resettle the grand total of 2 people so far... it's a sick joke.
This government doesn't give a rats toss bag for these people. They quote a largely non existent queue and where it is in existence it is somewhere between 100-200 years long. Over 50 million people are stateless or refugess, about 20% of them are considered eligible for resettlement to a 3rd country by UNHCR ( the rest are " temporary'" refugees like Syrians in places like Lebanon and turkey) and around 100,000 people are resettled each year.
If we are going to talk about stopping the boats on the basis of saving lives then take saving lives seriously. Support international aid efforts don't cut the guts out of them.
 

K3

Tiger Legend
Oct 9, 2006
5,257
1,018
http://www.smh.com.au/world/how-our-qa-session-with-a-refugee-highlighted-the-poisonous-state-of-debate-in-australia-20150818-gj1xuw.html

Is this a true representation of what my country is becoming? Have the Howard and Abbott years ingrained this hatred, and fear, of asylum seekers so deeply?

Even if the 'haters' are the few, it is still so sad that they are as many as they are.

What can we do to break the haze of fear being spread by a divisionist government?
 

Sintiger

Tiger Legend
Aug 11, 2010
18,667
18,818
Camberwell
K3 said:
http://www.smh.com.au/world/how-our-qa-session-with-a-refugee-highlighted-the-poisonous-state-of-debate-in-australia-20150818-gj1xuw.html

Is this a true representation of what my country is becoming? Have the Howard and Abbott years ingrained this hatred, and fear, of asylum seekers so deeply?

Even if the 'haters' are the few, it is still so sad that they are as many as they are.

What can we do to break the haze of fear being spread by a divisionist government?
Yes K3. I was so saddened and depressed by that whole exchange. How people can be so ignorant and hateful is just beyond my comprehension.
 

scottyturnerscurse

Tiger Legend
Apr 29, 2006
5,167
2,009
Sintiger said:
Yes K3. I was so saddened and depressed by that whole exchange. How people can be so ignorant and hateful is just beyond my comprehension.

The most depressing thing was it was done off the bat of a left-leaning media organisation. Could you imagine how worse it would have been if the Terror Graph or the Hun had done it?
 

Sintiger

Tiger Legend
Aug 11, 2010
18,667
18,818
Camberwell
scottyturnerscurse said:
The most depressing thing was it was done off the bat of a left-leaning media organisation. Could you imagine how worse it would have been if the Terror Graph or the Hun had done it?
yes. The news in recent times in Europe with people dying trying to escape persecution is horrendous.

I don't know what the answer is but I do know it isn't turning their boats around and sending them back. There are more stateless people and refugees now than any time since the 2nd world war and Australia's response is send them all back and cut our aid budget.

oh well, as long as we can pay for our foxtel I guess that's ok. (to quote one of the responders to the article in the fairfax sites)
 

AngryAnt

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
27,180
15,090
As long as these people drown and die far away from here, where we dont have to see their suffering, we don't care. This is the true meaning of "Stop the Boats" and "Border Force".

This is what you wanted Australia.
 

TigerForce

Tiger Legend
Apr 26, 2004
71,410
22,314
57
Sintiger said:
yes. The news in recent times in Europe with people dying trying to escape persecution is horrendous.

I don't know what the answer is but I do know it isn't turning their boats around and sending them back. There are more stateless people and refugees now than any time since the 2nd world war and Australia's response is send them all back and cut our aid budget.

oh well, as long as we can pay for our foxtel I guess that's ok. (to quote one of the responders to the article in the fairfax sites)

I always thought the NT could do with a population boost.
 

WesternTiger

Tiger Legend
Nov 7, 2004
14,723
3,617
scottyturnerscurse said:
Staggered that no Australian paper is yet to run the most iconic photo of the refugee crisis in Europe.

That is *smile* terrible. I just looked at the link and wish I hadn't but this should be pasted across all our main stream media.
 

K3

Tiger Legend
Oct 9, 2006
5,257
1,018
WesternTiger said:
That is *smile*ing terrible. I just looked at the link and wish I hadn't but this should be pasted across all our main stream media.

Unfortunately we have good ol' Grandpa Rupert responsible for a huge amount of what we see and hear. Will never happen...
 

Sintiger

Tiger Legend
Aug 11, 2010
18,667
18,818
Camberwell
TigerForce said:
I always thought the NT could do with a population boost.
This is not about mass migration into Australia . This is about the rich countries of the world actually doing something.

We moan and groan about our economy and our deficit and as long as those dirty unwashed don't come into our country we are ok. So much of the burden for looking after these people is falling on chronically underfunded NGOs. There are more than 2 million refugees from Syria in Turkey alone, along with millions of others in Lebanon, Jordon and northern Iraq. There are millions trying to escape to the north of Iraq from ISIS held areas in that country and then we have those wanting to escape from Libya. There is a forgotten refugee crisis in South Sudan, the massive refugee camp on the Somali/ kenyan border. The list goes on and on.

Our response as a country is to make sure none of them come here and by the way we haven't got enough money to maintain our aid budget so you will have to do less. At the very least we need to be part of an effort to provide a safe haven for these people, provide them with food and fresh water and some part of a life.

We just don't give a toss because we think it is not about us. The fact is it is about us, it is about our humanity as a country and as human beings. To be honest I am tired of it, tired of arguing with people who think it is ok what we are doing. I have come to accept that my view is just a minority view.