Cardinal George Pell, The Catholic Church and Child Sex Abuse | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
  • If you are having trouble logging in to the forum please contact [email protected] // When reseting your password or awaiting confirmation please check that your email is correct and also your junk/spam emails.
  • IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.

Cardinal George Pell, The Catholic Church and Child Sex Abuse

22nd Man

Tiger Legend
Aug 29, 2011
6,296
1,572
Essex Heights
Interesting article by Jon Faine: https://www.theage.com.au/national/...-a-reality-check-20200407-p54hul.html?ref=rss

Includes this section:



And



The jury system relies on having members of the community assess the evidence on its merits. The judgement of the members of the community has now been thrown out, effectively along with the evidence given by the victim. This is hugely problematic.

DS
I'd be a bit wary of JonFsines legal analysis.... He was a lawyer 30 years ago.
And he has been very closely involved with the Foster family who suffered terribly. His impartiality would be somewhat compromised in this case.
And jury decisions are overturned , that's what appeals court are there for.... Though more often it's on a point of law....which many people would say he was as guilty as sin but because a judge didn't advise a jury correctly the verdict is over turned. That's the system.
And judges can even instruct a jury not to find someone guilty if they believe the evidence does not stack up.
 

22nd Man

Tiger Legend
Aug 29, 2011
6,296
1,572
Essex Heights
Actually he was probably the perfect choice for that organisation.

Surprised to see Georgie Porgie head up the Hume and stop at a servo today. I reckon he would have been a pretty good chance to get anything from abuse to a smack in the face.
The lynchmob couldn't get past the camera crews.
 

22nd Man

Tiger Legend
Aug 29, 2011
6,296
1,572
Essex Heights
It most certainly involves the RFC when you have a pedophile supporter act as a patron.

I've actually emailed Brendon several times on this issue and others. Never had a response so I don't bother anymore.
So the Club obviously thinks they don't have anything to contribute. And as for him ignoring you, does prove that all the talk from the club about being responsive to fans is just corporate clap trap if he cannot even send back the generic reply "thanks for your email. The Club welcomes members views on a range of topics. Eat em alive, B Gale LLB"
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

Jake

Tiger Superstar
Apr 2, 2005
1,500
440
Actually he was probably the perfect choice for that organisation.

Surprised to see Georgie Porgie head up the Hume and stop at a servo today. I reckon he would have been a pretty good chance to get anything from abuse to a smack in the face.


Didn't even get a pie or a can of the black doctor for the trip.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: 1 user

Tiger44

Tiger Superstar
Sep 23, 2005
1,043
178
Notice Georgie Porgie didn't need his walking stick to get into and out of the Shop - must have just been a temporary thing!!!!
 
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: 3 users

DavidSSS

Tiger Champion
Dec 11, 2017
4,182
4,728
Melbourne
Don't mind this take on the High Court Appeal.


Yes, interesting that appeal courts are now judging evidence not just questions of law.

But, the high court didn't hear the witness testimony, yet they apparently have a better idea of whether it was credible.

If they are just going to ignore jury decisions then be honest and say so, and abolish juries if one's peers are no longer seen to be fit to judge one.

DS
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

Sintiger

Tiger Legend
Aug 11, 2010
12,990
3,330
Camberwell
No he's innocent.

I can't say it any better than the bloke in the Australian this morning;

The exoneration of George Pell has revealed institutional flaws in Victoria that will tarnish Australian justice in the eyes of the world. Those shortcomings must be remedied.

The baseless conviction of Cardinal Pell is an international scandal that will rank alongside the jailing of Lindy Chamberlain for the murder of her baby, who was actually taken by a dingo.

Just like the Chamberlain case, the Pell disaster will inevitably find its way into a movie that will do no favours for the standing of Australian justice.

Two of the state’s most senior judges — Chief Justice Anne Ferguson and Court of Appeal president Chris Maxwell — have been shown to have made a fundamental error; the reliability of the state’s jury system has been left in doubt; and the wisdom of the state’s police in effectively advertising for complaints about the cardinal is open to question.

The immediate blame will inevitably rest with the Court of Appeal. But that court also boasts the real hero in this affair: judge Mark Weinberg, who defied the state’s anti-Pell frenzy and delivered a powerful, 204-page dissent whose reasoning has now been vindicated.

The High Court’s 44-page unanimous judgment amounts to a primer for the judiciary, particularly in Victoria, on how criminal justice is supposed to work. That primer was needed: if an innocent man can be jailed without a proper basis in law, nobody is safe.

The pain for Victoria does not end there. Pell’s tormentors in the media will need to re-examine the way they engaged in years of character assassination that has left them looking foolish.

The state government cannot escape the fallout. Victoria should join NSW by allowing high-profile criminal matters to be heard by a judge alone — without the assistance of a potentially biased jury.

The worst aspect of this case is that Victorian legislation meant the Pell jury was denied the full story about the man who claimed to have been assaulted by the cardinal.

Relevant evidence about the complainant was kept from the jury by virtue of legislation that was put in place with the clear intention of protecting those who claim to be victims of sexual assault.

The Pell jury was never told that the complainant had a history of psychological problems that required treatment. Nor were they told that Pell’s legal team was rebuffed in court — in the absence of the jury — when they attempted to gain access to records showing the extent of this man’s psychological problems.

That episode is outlined in the special leave application that was filed in the High Court by Pell’s legal team, led by Bret Walker SC. During the trial, it would have been a contempt of court for anyone to reveal this incident.

That application, which is a public document on file with the High Court, says “the applicant (Pell) could not tell the jury that the complainant had had psychological treatment and the applicant had been denied the ability to obtain records of it”.

That needs to change.
they are tow diffe
If the Royal Commission report shows Pell has a case to answer for concealing the crimes of others, he'll no doubt be charged over it.
There is no way this is true LTRTR

if everyone in the Catholic Church and other institutions who concealed information about child abusers were to be charged there would hundreds of them lined up at the courts. There is no point in pursuing it given the burden of proof.

Pell’s defence against this is that he was never told or made aware of anything, even relating to Gerald Risdale who abused countless boys and was a friend of Pell in Ballarat. Conveniently the major people who supposedly didn’t tell him are dead.

I have no doubt whatsoever he covered up and essentially aided years of sexual abuse of boys and he is straight out lying when he says he didn’t know.

As for a lack of compassion and care for victims well that is not a crime but it just reinforces to me what a scumbag he really is.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

KnightersRevenge

Baby Knighters is on board.
Aug 21, 2007
6,388
430
Ireland
Yeh an article in The Aust supporting Pell - amazing. And agree abuse is often predicated on the powerless. Great the author thinks we shouldn't listen to anyone with physcological issues.

None of us on PRE would get a say

For balance an article also in the Aus concludes thusly:

George Pell appeal: Don’t accept sanitised history of clerical abuse said:
...
By this time, there were police engaged in the earnest investigation of offending priests and other clerics. They invariably describe their work at the time as largely unsupported by their senior colleagues. One detective who first brought the monstrous Christian Brother Ted Dowlan to justice wrote memos to senior police almost begging for the establishment of a task force. His requests were ignored.
Other detectives carried out their investigations largely in private, deeply suspicious of sharing information with colleagues in the fear that their investigations would be compromised.2
That is the potted history. There’s more, of course. In Ballarat. In Melbourne and elsewhere in Victoria. It speaks of manifest failures, wilful ignorance and systemic corruption.
When we move to the present and VicPol’s Sano Task Force’s pursuit of George Pell ending in ignominy, the question must be asked, did Victoria Police seek to erase its dismal history by the failed pursuit of one man, a prince of the Church?
Consider an alternate reality where John Day had been charged and sentenced to a long term of imprisonment for his crimes against children in Mildura in 1972. Or if Ridsdale had been brought before the courts and prosecuted in Inglewood 1974. Hundreds of victims would have been spared the trauma of abuse. There is no other way of looking at it.
We understand the Catholic Church’s failings, the miserable felonious business of covering up and moving clerical paedophiles onto other parishes and new groups of unsuspecting victims. What is barely known is the role of the police in facilitating those crimes.
There’s no shortage of guilt. More than enough to go around.


JACK THE INSIDER/
 
Last edited:

KnightersRevenge

Baby Knighters is on board.
Aug 21, 2007
6,388
430
Ireland
Yes, interesting that appeal courts are now judging evidence not just questions of law.

But, the high court didn't hear the witness testimony, yet they apparently have a better idea of whether it was credible.

If they are just going to ignore jury decisions then be honest and say so, and abolish juries if one's peers are no longer seen to be fit to judge one.

DS

And this seems to support Faine's case. It also aligns with my understanding of how the High Court is supposed to operate.
 

tigertim

something funny is written here
Mar 6, 2004
24,253
3,520
Yes, interesting that appeal courts are now judging evidence not just questions of law.

But, the high court didn't hear the witness testimony, yet they apparently have a better idea of whether it was credible.

DS
As I understand it the high court judges watch the video evidence and read transcripts just as the court of appeal judges did last year.
 

The Big Richo

Moderator
Aug 19, 2010
3,914
5,163
The home of Dusty
I see Pell is going to be interviewed by Andrew Bolt on Tuesday.

I've been paying for two Foxtel subscriptions for over 20 years, if this interview goes the way I think it will I'll be done.
 
  • Haha
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users

MD Jazz

Tiger Legend
Feb 3, 2017
5,824
2,808
I see Pell is going to be interviewed by Andrew Bolt on Tuesday.

I've been paying for two Foxtel subscriptions for over 20 years, if this interview goes the way I think it will I'll be done.
Bolt will not be able to restrain himself.
 

LeeToRainesToRoach

Tiger Legend
Jun 4, 2006
29,387
7,312
Melbourne
I see Pell is going to be interviewed by Andrew Bolt on Tuesday.

I've been paying for two Foxtel subscriptions for over 20 years, if this interview goes the way I think it will I'll be done.

Wouldn't bother. You already know it's going to be like Tracey Holmes' interview with Hird.
 
  • Angry
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users