When we lost to the bombers this year at the ground I just laughed. It’s the only way. Well played.The person that died too young must've been an absolute c*** with the way they're teeing off
Fully sik maaaaaate.
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Carltony
- Thread starter Sintiger
- Start date
Carlton don't seem to have any semblance of a game plan when it comes to moving the ball. They struggle to take territory via handball or score off turnover, two things that are vital in the modern game.
Perhaps a fresh batch of assistants under Voss will change things in 2024 - as it did for Dimma at the end of 2016 - but the signs aren't promising. Relying on scoring from stoppage isn't a good sign.
Show me evidence anyone is a great coach and I'll show you equal amounts of evidence that they're a *smile* coach.
Voss is smart, knows how to play the game brilliantly, and is a great communicator who commands respect and attention from everyone. He ran the Port midfield in 2020 and they were the second best team in the competition. There's no question he is eminently qualified and capable of being a great coach.
It all comes back to the best kept secret in the AFL, the biggest factor in success is luck. No-one wants to admit it, because everyone needs to hang on to the feeling they have some control over their destiny, but with the equalisation measures in the competition, all you can do is hope you luck into the right group of players who click and are capable of winning.
Outcome and results proves a great coach right. It is the proof of anything. Hardwick is a perfect example of this - not sure what argument you could make there to say he is not. It is about the whole that is delivered - including recognising what playing group is needed. The jury is still out with Voss and they have been out such a long time they must be almost in a coma - there is far more evidence to say Voss is not even a good coach - and nothing to say he is a great one. His time at Port as an assistant coach - maybe that is what is he great at, as an assistant, still where did Port end up in 2020? There is only one measure of greatness at the end of the season for a coach. Voss though was a great player - it was a natural game for him, so natural he may not actually know what made him naturally talented - ergo how can he teach such greatness then.
Here's why Voss is a poor coach, he inherited a premiership team and ran it into the ground with abysmal player management. Shunning a club champion in Bradshaw to accommodate a loose cannon in Fevola was only the beginning. he then proceeded to weaken the list further by selling future club champions in Docherty, Crisp & Yeo for absolute peanuts. His knowledge as a game day tactician also questionable, players like Walsh have been turned into outside runners while finishers like Cerra have been turned into extractors, wrong way around for these player types. At present the gameplan consists of bombing it long and hoping the talls mark the ball, if not the Blues have been found wanting due to a severe lack of crumbing talent. I'm not knocking him for the state of the bottom six but he isn't helping himself with the present approach. Carlton used to be the envy of every club when they had Betts & Garlett but have since attempted to turn midfielders like Fisher & even Walsh into part time forwards. If I was a prospective coach I would be licking my lips, the core is there with two Coleman medalists, a future captain in Walsh, Adam Cerra who is a classy finisher & Weitering who is an AA defender. There's also some solid replacements coming through the ranks, Cowan, Binns & Hollands plenty to work with. The difficult parts are already in place, one draft could solve plenty & perhaps one big trade similar to the SA clubs last year. Missed the boat with Brad Scott, he was the best bet from the field they interviewed. I was personally in disbelief at Vossy's appointment, one of the strangest decisions in living memory.
not sticking up for Voss, but i dont know he had much say in those guys leaving- certainly not Docherty and Yeo, who left along with Polec and maybe Longer and 1 other., and I doubt he would have been involved in trade negotiations- they all walked out on the club.
Crisp was clearly undervalued- probably by the wider footballing world at the time too.
I guess the other question to ask though around those players is, why did so many of them want to leave? What was the driver behind that? Poor club culture, poor leadership etc. Thats at least partly on the coach. Its why I feel sorry for Leppa, as he is now labeled as a failed coach, yet what he inherited set him up for failure.
They were a poor performing club, with their draft picks from the prio3 3 draft periods mainly wanting out, what hope did the guy have.
You look at the players they drafted in the time that Leppa was coach.
2014 - Harris Andrews
2015 - Schache, Hipwood, Keays, Mathiesen
2016 - McCluggage, Berry, Witherden, McInerney
Those were the years where they drafted the start of the team they have now. Leppa was thrown a pile of *smile* and then was thrown to the wolves when they were crap. Not many ways you can polish a *smile* is there.
The year after he was sacked they then drafted 4 more of their current best team.
2017 - Rayner, Bailey, Starcevich, Payne
I reckon he bridged the gap between Vossy's destruction and handing over the reins to Fagan after going through the worst years. He was a lamb to the slaughter and why if Leppa was available he has to be in consideration for our next coach, we shouldn't be talking him down because he was given a job like that. Had no chance from the time he was given the job.
Docherty spent huge amounts of time playing reserves, for a pick 12 it was horrible player management, his performances didn't warrant such treatment, I was not the least bit surprised he wanted out. If you are willing to pay pick 12 on a player then you need to give them match time. Brisbane spent pick 5 on Polec and sold him for chump change, this erosion of draft capital was typical of the Voss era, I'm struggling to see any winning trades over that period. Yeo probably the most vulnerable given he was a WA product but what a steal for a second rounder & what a loss for a rebuilding Brisbane.
Nah.
Damien Hardwick made the team better year on year excluding 2016. And 2016 and early 2017 is instructive - failure led to a changed attitude and a changed game plan - boom, 3 flags.
Voss has made his teams worse year on year. No doubt he has some great coaching strengths but maybe he's just not cut out to be a senior coach.
Or go with Ross Lyon. Turning St Kilda around from last year - just luck? He's a great coach and motivator. Explain how St Kilda were unlucky last year and somehow lucky this year.
Luck is a factor, inspired coaching is a much bigger factor.
As some yank sports dude once said, "the harder I work, the luckier I get".
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Polec never lived up to pick 5. Billy Longer was Adam Pattison V2. Not a great loss there.
Yeo played 8 games year 1, 19 games year 2 under Voss, he wanted to go home, hardly Voss's fault.
Docherty arrived at Brissy with a hip issue, no preseason in year one. Didn't play at all and year two played 13 games under Voss, hardly poor management.
The Fev trade is what hurt his legacy. Gave up Lachie Henderson and pick 12 (Kane Lucas but a lot of good players taken afterwards and got Fev and pick 27 (Caluum Bartlett, Mitch Duncan) the next pick. And also when Fev was playing well, the Lions looked like flag contenders. Got smashed by injury.
The Carlton list is super average. Voss isn't the issue.
If Luke Sayers and Brian Cook had not stated and repeated that "we want someone with senior coach experience" would Voss have gotten the job?
They were batting their eyelashes at Clarkson, Lyon and to a lesser extent Brad Scott and got rejected by all of them. Voss was just lucky to be the last man standing with a decent enough resume to fit the bill.
They were batting their eyelashes at Clarkson, Lyon and to a lesser extent Brad Scott and got rejected by all of them. Voss was just lucky to be the last man standing with a decent enough resume to fit the bill.
Don't you think there's a pattern here? Polec played his best football once he left Brisbane, Crisp another who thrived at Collingwood, Yeo looked like a completely different player at West Coast. I see development issues, aside from the first 10 weeks of 2022 most Carlton players have gone backwards, even Cripps has looked cooked, this coming off a Brownlow year. I would love to inherit Carlton's list, the age profile of the spine is cherry ripe, the midfield lacking one quality ball user, perhaps two but I think you can sort that out in one draft. They are missing a couple of goal sneaks, that is doable and relatively instant impact with low end draft picks.
Yes - to me that's a big tell. If players get worse not better, allowing for age of course, questions arise. Sure, some players just do better in different environments, but if it's a pattern then questions have to be asked.
The popular word is a sheila on the board didn't want Ross Lyon. Otherwise he was home and hosed.
A lot of Carlton supporters are pretty f****d off at her and the club for kowtowing to what they describe as 'woke' management. Even more so now that Ross has the Saints up and about.
A lot of Carlton supporters are pretty f****d off at her and the club for kowtowing to what they describe as 'woke' management. Even more so now that Ross has the Saints up and about.
Feeling what You're Putting Down BB.
We know how it feels man.
That elimination loss to your Baggers and then Elimination belting/ belittling at the hands of Port in 14 were reality checks for the RFC who thought they were thereabouts.
Blues actually are not that far off to be honest and thats what's driving Blues fans nuts the expectation its leading to disappointment but the addition of one or 2 quality recruits and a complete buy in by all players including the preparedness of all of them to sacrifice their own games for the good of the side will see them go to the next level.
Geelong did It in 07
Hawthorn did It
Richmond did it at eh end of 2016
Skunks are currently doing it.
Carlton need to do it.
They also need to get their ship straight and tight off field.
Like Essendon both clubs still suffering in the back room.
The admin side was where the TIgers took their first step towards finally getting to were they wanted to be.
On field came after 2016 and the no holes barred straight talk no shitt sessions between players and coaches.
Buy in off the field to set the course for the club then buy in on it to chase the Flag.
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Next Board election pretty easy to see who's getting shot out of a cannon over the top of the Legends Stand
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I suspect your comments on Voss are due to your involvement with Port.
So I respect that.
But to say it’s all down to luck is far fetched.
When do we start talking about Fagan as a failed coach? Wrong thread but gee he escapes scrutiny.
When they lose at the G again in the finals. Must be last straw if so.
