In an ideal world we would be getting games into our top 30 picks from 2021 but Gibcus is injured and Brown, Sonsie and Banks aren't best 22 players at the moment and they probaly don't deserve games whilst there is a mathematical chance of playing finals.
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Changes vs Fremantle
- Thread starter Smoking Aces
- Start date
Obviously Gibcus is injured, and Brown has just returned from injury. Sonsie, by the sounds of it, isnt doing what is asked at VFL level, so should stay there.
Banks, on the other hand, appears to be doing what is asked, and is very close to selection. At some stage, finals or not, they should be looking to play him. Even if we make finals we still need to be getting some games into those kids who deserve them, and who are our future.
He has an ego and there is nothing wrong with that but if he doesn’t get it and get out of the way of his own volition, the match committee is there to do it for him.
The RFC is an ongoing concern and ought not to be a vehicle in place to cater to Jacks desire to break records.
Yeah, but his pressure is better than any other small forward that we have. The ball is coming out too easily.
Btw our coaches have no issues putting players straight back in after missing X amount of games.
If MRJ needs to play 1-2 ressies games so be it. Love to see Coulthard come in, first game today did well, with 14 disposals, 1 goal and 5 marks.
Love to see Coulthard come in but not M Jr until he does something about his footskills. His passing in particular is awful. It is hard to believe Morris, Lambert and others have not done more to assist in this regard.
Lambert in fact when he first started couldn’t kick length or direction but I believe that was sorted out by Craig in the vfl.
Some one needs to do something here.
Jaaacks the only experienced key forward we've got available at the moment. Somebody's got to be the anchor point that you set the rest of the forward line around.
As for Jaaack hanging around to break Richo's record, phhht. He's got 300 games n 3 flags plus an almost identical tally of career goals. He's already got some numbers that Richo can only dream about.
Thats incredibly harsh on jack, but having been reading some of your posts about Jack over the last year or so, you obviously have a bee in your bonnet over him. Indicating that he is selfish and only playing for records is complete *smile* IMO. If that were the case, why would Jack bother to compete like he did in those contests around the centre square on Sunday that ultimately forced the turnover that won us the game? Surely if he's only it fo himself, he stands inside 50 and the ball is intercepted and moved into our D50 and we lose the game?
You clearly have an agenda around Jack and you can see it with some of the sly little digs you give him every now and again.
Personally I don't get how any Tiger can have that attitude with Jack. He's proven himself to have moved away from that selfish brat that we drafted to become a fully engaged team person in our squad. You can see that even in games. Again look at Sunday, if he's only playing for records for himself, Jack marked at the top of the square but did he just go back and kick the goal, no his immediate thought was to handball to Juddy and he would run in and kick the goal on the line, the fact that he stuffed up the 1m handball and then kicked the goal anyway was more about Jack's reactions but his instinct was to bring another teammate into play and not kick the goal himself.
Some of your comments on Jack are bordering on being downright disrespectful to him.
He is actually on track for a 40 plus goal season - why should he rest when he is our leading goal kicker, daylight second.
And they are also just plain wrong. If jack wasn't doing enough to get a game AND we had better options, they might have a point.
I don't think he is. Much more likely won't rest because we need him in the side.
Jack has won some games for us, no doubt.
But the KPF cupboard is deplorable and Nank isn’t a forward’s haemorrhoid.
Jack has contributed to our losses too. He has been non-existent in some games and has applied zero defensive pressure.
You can’t carry that inconsistency during a genuine finals campaign and I’m glad we won’t have this problem next year when we truly start building again.
But the KPF cupboard is deplorable and Nank isn’t a forward’s haemorrhoid.
Jack has contributed to our losses too. He has been non-existent in some games and has applied zero defensive pressure.
You can’t carry that inconsistency during a genuine finals campaign and I’m glad we won’t have this problem next year when we truly start building again.
Yes and no. On Jack.
In the games where we have lost, can you point to ANY player that didn't contribute to the loss in some way?
Jacks struggled in a handful of games.
Pies - We were outclass throughout that game
Suns - WE were deplorable as a team
Essendon - Was double teamed by the extra defender, and we didn't man it up. We certainly didn't help Jack at all with our tactics
Port - Allir was allowed to do things to Jack that Harvey Weinstein would be proud of
He has been more than comptititive in the other 7 games he has played. So 7 out of 11 and he has been more than servicable.
Why not flip it around and say if we had a young forward with these stats across 11 games, I'd hazard a guess and say you would be stoked.
9.6 disposals, 4.5 marks, 1.9 goals, 1.2 behinds, 0.5 goal assists, 1.9 tackles, 1.9 CM's and 2.5 marks inside 50.
Jack certainly isn't as good as he was in his prime and anyone that thought he would is on crazy pills, but he is currently ranked 22nd in the AFL for average goals per game amongst all players.
The tall forwards in front of him are:
Max King 3.67, Cameron / Curnow 3.17, Ben Brown 3, Daniher 2.73, Allen / Hawkins / Larkey / Lewis 2.67, Mihocek 2.58, Walker 2.55, Ben King 2.5, Lynch 2.25, Finlayson 2.2
So Jack is ranked 15th amongst tall forwards for average goals this year. If he was at the start of his career we would be lauding that, but because he is at the end we think he is done and should retire midway through the season.
We certainly need to find a path towards our next tall forwards, but at this stage Jack is doing well, he matches up well with his peers and is impacting games. He isn't keeping anyone out of the team that is ripping up the VFL, so we need to recruit in the off season to replace him.
We all agree that some of our list management decisions around talls, particularly forward, may not match up to expectations and we have neglected it, but there is no magic wand that fixes this part way through the season.
You have the nerve to describe him as having come to the club as a selfish brat and then continue with whinging about something I didn't actually say.
The question raised for discussion was about what should happen with both Trent and Jack, after finals become a mathematical possibility.. I was addressing that question. Try and focus.
For sure we rest players periodically.
But of the 6 you mention 2 are key possies - the rest are runners. At 1 rest in 4, it means 1 extra kid a game.
So between Hugo, Banks, Sonsie and Cumbo they get 2 development games as playing the kids.
Jack's rest gives a game to Miller or Biggie.
Grimes to Brown
I'm managing expectations. We will give kids a taste but its not a full plunge
I think we play Jack and Trent throughout, with regular rests. I can see why others think differently.
Hawks shafted Roughhead to the 2s and a miserable ignominous end. Think we are better than that.
If Graham is tradeable we are playing him. Apart from we rate him and value his input and teamwork, If he gets no games he will walk for nix.
Regardless, we have standards and playing kids instead of dedicated team-committed players with the runs on the board is a great way to undermine the standards.
You trade Mansell HRS and Ross, all fringe players in a 15th side? Do you like 5th round picks ?
You might trade the captain Nank. Absolute zero that the club does.
I can agree he has liabilities and its not a dominant position.
But kicking out the 3 time premiership warrior? Club would lose its way. The culture and ethos slip away.
No way it happens
I don't think many (probably including Jack) would disagree that he was selfish when he came to the club so not sure of your point. He has matured into the ultimate team man and still is. Your assertion was he was playing on to beat Richos record and that goes against what the club needs, and I was pointing out if that was the case then he wouldn't be doing the team things that he is actually doing on the field.
Jack we will play throughout, He is still contributing at a good level compared to his peers. As I mentioned before, ranked 15th amongst talls for average goals per game this season.
Trent on the other hand, I have mixed feelings about. Love the guy, but I feel like the version of Cotch we are seeing now is a shell of the great man in his prime, and he is adding very little to our team dynamics, potentially swinging more to the negative (running power etc) than the positive. Personally I think the time has come for Cotch, he will most certainly hit 300 games next week against the Saints, but after that decisions need to be made. We are a running type / small forward down with Cotch playing the role that he is and there are options in the 2's now that could play instead of him, Hugo could be trialed further forward of the ball, Steely is playing fairly well, we have Banks playing well etc. There are options for that role. Sonsie if he can up his workrate is another option. MRJ and Coulthard will also become options over the coming weeks.
I think your stance on Jack is pretty fair TBH
As long as you concede his defensive efforts really aren’t up to AFL standard as of 2023
