Damien Hardwick [Merged]

[AngryAnt]

Dont forget Nipper Gordon was given a fair run at the small forward/flanker position as well.

Morris didn't work out.
Newman did OK as a forward and could be switched back when required.
Jake King was great in the role as a defensive small forward who put the defenders in doubt and kicked goals as well.

Clearly Dimma is striving for a small forward who can either be a classy goal kicker or failing that can add value defensively and chip in. No ones really fit the bill since King, so he's been cycling them through.

 

[Carter]

Why bother having a discussion then? Its one thing to say 'Dimma is too conservative, hasn't given Lloyd and Lennon enough games, given Newman and Morris too many'

Its another thing to say or imply he's played Newman and Morris in the fwd line for the last 3 years, doesn't like players who kick goals (dunno if you said that).

You think your argument is self-evident, it isn't. Has Dimma favoured CN and SM over BL and SL? If so, by how much? A lot, or a little? And if you are right, why? Was BL ready? Is SL good enough? And even though the SM experiment was broadly a failure, we had some good wins where his fwd pressure did have an impact, so I for one could see where he was going with it, even if it failed.

You didn't actually respond to the points I made in my post. I'd actually like to see some meat on the bones of your argument, it would be genuinely interesting to me. Games played in the fwd line by small and med fwds over the last 3 years.

Also you ignore counter arguments, Lennon was only running one way, Morris experiment failed and he moved on, and the biggie, every single person and their dogs know we lack a classy med-small fwd. Lennon might be it, he's being brought in, Rioli might be it, Lloyd for me probably won't be it, but I like having him on the list for depth in that area

I put forward an opinion, one you apparently don't like. We all watch footy and make our own conclusions.

I have no intention of trawling through various stats to provide meat to the bones.

You can agree, disagree or trash the argument as you see fit.

Dunno why that's so perplexing. I never invited a debate with you so why the angst that I haven't provided more material?

Just trash my argument and move on eh?

 

[tigersnake]

I put forward an opinion, one you apparently don't like. We all watch footy and make our own conclusions.

I have no intention of trawling through various stats to provide meat to the bones.

You can agree, disagree or trash the argument as you see fit.

Dunno why that's so perplexing. I never invited a debate with you so why the angst that I haven't provided more material?

Just trash my argument and move on eh?

K. coming from the master mover-onnerer. when it suits

 

[TigerForce]

What did that old goose KB say today about Dimma and Benny? Trying to start a rift within the club?

I just noticed the article in the Hun.

 

[seven]

What did that old goose KB say today about Dimma and Benny? Trying to start a rift within the club?

I just noticed the article in the Hun.

KB hasn't had his name in the paper for nearly a week now.
Had to say something to promote himself.

 

[lamb22]

- Jake King example proved a backman could succeed as one

The Jake King example proved that a guy who played mid and forward all his development years could chip in at back pocket for a few seasons.

PS King and Morris are chalk and cheese. One could roost the ball both feet and was a considered user of the ball plus he could get it plus he could intimidate defenders plus he had footy smarts.

The other is Morris.

 

[leon]

The Jake King example proved that a guy who played mid and forward all his development years could chip in at back pocket for a few seasons.

PS King and Morris are chalk and cheese. One could roost the ball both feet and was a considered user of the ball plus he could get it plus he could intimidate defenders plus he had footy smarts.

The other is Morris.

Not sure what you are really firing at here. For some posters, the mere mention of 'Morris' induces a paroxysm of scathing venom; this following upon the prior erasure from their living memory of anything good he ever did on a football field in his whole football career. I never defended him anyway; doubted from the outset that he had the skill-set to succeed forward but it has been pointed out by others on PRE, he did the occasional pressure act, tackle or turnover. Overall, a terrible move by Dimma as I implied, but I was trying to depict what I think Hardwick's thought process was. And why he deserves blame for it; the lack of future planing in drafting SFs. He simply expected Kingy to keep on.
But Jake did start his AFL career as a SB and was relatively successful; maybe even better as a SF. I never claimed they were really comparable players, just trying to depict what many others think too: that Dimma has been 'dim' when it comes to understanding what is really required to be a quality SF. In a hole he went for two experienced SBs thinking they could play DF.
For the record, I don't blame Morris for his 2015 demise as much. I haven't forgotten the countless times I have witnessed him throw his head and body in harm's way down back where he mostly belongs. I respect his courage and commitment, probably same for why he was elected to the leadership in '15. But recognise him as a limited footballer with unfortunate deficiencies for today's game too.

 

[Sintiger]

Sure you're handling this, Sin? Wouldn't want you to blow a gasket or anything.

I stand by my statement that Dimma doesn't have much use for the likes of Short, Butler, Lennon, McBean.

It's just the way he likes to set up.

And now over to you for more rage ;D

Its not rage, believe me I am not angry. Didn't give it another thought all day. People who are obviously wrong, then try to manipulate discussions to pretend they are not annoy me, but it's more a mozzie buzzing in my ear annoying than rage. They annoy me because it's impossible to have a decent discussion with them because they are incapable of admitting they are wrong.

I suspect you are one of these people, you certainly demonstrate those traits.

You are so obviously wrong on this point, there is no way Dimma would be Coach if the recruiters were deliberately recruiting players that were kryptonite to him, it's not really hard to understand that to be honest. Have a shot at it.

 

[Prince Gwilliam]

Dont forget Nipper Gordon was given a fair run at the small forward/flanker position as well.

Morris didn't work out.
Newman did OK as a forward and could be switched back when required.
Jake King was great in the role as a defensive small forward who put the defenders in doubt and kicked goals as well.

Clearly Dimma is striving for a small forward who can either be a classy goal kicker or failing that can add value defensively and chip in. No ones really fit the bill since King, so he's been cycling them through.

Maybe we just haven't had the right genuine class small forwards to pick over recent years but Hardwick needs to understand their importance.
Amazing to hear him say this week he'd pick Conca and Griffiths again tomorrow over Lloyd and Lennon. He actually said if Griff had kicked those two sodas he missed the coaches would be geniuses. Well guess what Dimma, he didn't.

Problem a lot of posters have is you could see Morris wasn't the answer after 1-2 games. It was pig headed stubbornness to keep playing him.
Newman did 'ok' but averaged less than one goal a game.
If Jake King is our benchmark we're in trouble. Kingy was much loved and played a role but never kicked more than 30 goals in a season. Not good enough standard to be Top 4 /elite team

 

[billyb#40]

Maybe we just haven't had the right genuine class small forwards to pick over recent years but Hardwick needs to understand their importance.
Amazing to hear him say this week he'd pick Conca and Griffiths again tomorrow over Lloyd and Lennon. He actually said if Griff had kicked those two sodas he missed the coaches would be geniuses. Well guess what Dimma, he didn't.

Problem a lot of posters have is you could see Morris wasn't the answer after 1-2 games. It was pig headed stubbornness to keep playing him.
Newman did 'ok' but averaged less than one goal a game.
If Jake King is our benchmark we're in trouble. Kingy was much loved and played a role but never kicked more than 30 goals in a season. Not good enough standard to be Top 4 /elite team

Not to defend Kingy but in a reasonably young ordinary team he ran the forward line and educated a lot of blokes as to where to go and was a hard tackling defensive forward who often shook loose the ball for others to capitalise. Also took some run off the other teams best attacking back. Stopped playing because of a broken foot rather than form. Better to play with than against.
And always got under Clokes skin, enough to get him a game on its own.
Not bad for a short angry man, who wasn't seen as good enough to get to AFL level.

 

[Carter]

Its not rage, believe me I am not angry. Didn't give it another thought all day. People who are obviously wrong, then try to manipulate discussions to pretend they are not annoy me, but it's more a mozzie buzzing in my ear annoying than rage. They annoy me because it's impossible to have a decent discussion with them because they are incapable of admitting they are wrong.

I suspect you are one of these people, you certainly demonstrate those traits.

You are so obviously wrong on this point, there is no way Dimma would be Coach if the recruiters were deliberately recruiting players that were kryptonite to him, it's not really hard to understand that to be honest. Have a shot at it.

What on earth are you talking about?

I haven't deviated one iota from my original statement.

Our recruiters have selected players from the 2014 and 2015 drafts that Dimma has limited use for.

There are over arching list objectives that occasionally reside outside the head coaches sphere of influence. Remember, recruiters and coaches both have a direct report to head of football dept. Church and government are not always mixed.

Project players are a good example. I have trouble imagining head coaches being completely comfortable recruiting skinny talls with years of development ahead before seniors could possibly beckon.

It's fine if you think this is notion is "stupid" and "delusional". That's PRE.

Dunno what the fuss is all about.

 

[Bullarto Tiger]

Thoughtful, considerate communication of one's thoughts is usually a very good means of eliciting dynamic yet respectful discussion between parties to the conversation.

 

[Tigaman]

Dimma going into this year with same top level cattle plus Yarran. Other add ons yet to be proven. Hardwick has to address the CHF position .. CHF these days requires player who is not static to that position but is like a centreman. Dimma has had Griff at CHF then in ruck relieving Ivan & it has been an absolute disaster. I would slot McIntosh there.

 

[Sintiger]

What on earth are you talking about?

I haven't deviated one iota from my original statement.

Our recruiters have selected players from the 2014 and 2015 drafts that Dimma has limited use for.

There are over arching list objectives that occasionally reside outside the head coaches sphere of influence. Remember, recruiters and coaches both have a direct report to head of football dept. Church and government are not always mixed.

Project players are a good example. I have trouble imagining head coaches being completely comfortable recruiting skinny talls with years of development ahead before seniors could possibly beckon.

It's fine if you think this is notion is "stupid" and "delusional". That's PRE.

Dunno what the fuss is all about.

There is no fuss Carter. My recent posts have been about one statement you made, nothing more. That our recruiters select players that are kryptonite to Dimma.

All I have said is that is a stupid statement because it means there is a complete breakdown between what the Coach wants and the recruiters are picking. There is no way that a club would operate like that.

You keep on diluting your statement by saying things like "not completely comfortable" or "limited use for". You didn't say that, you said kryptonite. The concept that Coaches and recruiters don't always agree 100% is normal and well understood but you went further to feed your anti Dimma bias.

PRE is also about calling people on ridiculous posts, you do it as well constantly. I am just calling you on one.

FWIW I haven't been in favour of our forward set up either and certainly wasn't a fan of the failed 8-9 game experiment with Morris as a forward. I have been encouraged by our recruiting because it shows to me that as a club, coaches and recruiters together, we are recognising our deficiencies.

 

[Tigers of Old]

FWIW I haven't been in favour of our forward set up either and certainly wasn't a fan of the failed 8-9 game experiment with Morris as a forward.

It hasn't just been the Morris move but that was certainly the most baffling decision in a long line of errors.
Think what I find most frustrating is that our coach perseveres with his off season 'experiments' for half a season before he stubbornly realises it's not working.
Hardwick's arguably cost us top 4 births the past couple of seasons due to our slow starts before he finally listens to somebody else.
Another slow start this season should rightly see him under the pump. Our window is open & this list is too good to waste with dumb coaching moves.

 

[Sintiger]

It hasn't just been the Morris move but that was certainly the most baffling decision in a long line of errors.
Think what I find most frustrating is that our coach perseveres with his off season 'experiments' for half a season before he stubbornly realises it's not working.
Hardwick's arguably cost us top 4 births the past couple of seasons due to our slow starts before he finally listens to somebody else.
Another slow start this season should rightly see him under the pump. Our window is open & this list is too good to waste with dumb coaching moves.

As i said i wasn't in favour of it. I understand what he was trying to do which was replace Jake King but I didn't think that was necessary and he picked the wrong player to do it anyway.

On the positive side the decision was to move Lids more into the forward half which was a real success.

The recruiting we have done means there are more options going forward as well. Rioli, Lennon, Edwards and Lloyd are all capable of spending significant time forward in those small and medium roles. I think we will find that martin and Cotchin will spend more time forward as well with the interchange cap in place.

 

[Carter]

There is no fuss Carter. My recent posts have been about one statement you made, nothing more. That our recruiters select players that are kryptonite to Dimma.

All I have said is that is a stupid statement because it means there is a complete breakdown between what the Coach wants and the recruiters are picking. There is no way that a club would operate like that.

You keep on diluting your statement by saying things like "not completely comfortable" or "limited use for". You didn't say that, you said kryptonite. The concept that Coaches and recruiters don't always agree 100% is normal and well understood but you went further to feed your anti Dimma bias.

PRE is also about calling people on ridiculous posts, you do it as well constantly. I am just calling you on one.

FWIW I haven't been in favour of our forward set up either and certainly wasn't a fan of the failed 8-9 game experiment with Morris as a forward. I have been encouraged by our recruiting because it shows to me that as a club, coaches and recruiters together, we are recognising our deficiencies.

Sounds like nitpicking to me but I respect your position ;D

 

[Brodders17]

On the positive side the decision was to move Lids more into the forward half which was a real success.

it seems those bagging Hardwick and his forwardlne are happy to ignore that Lids and ShEdwards have spent considerable time there over the last couple of years.

 

[Carter]

it seems those bagging Hardwick and his forwardlne are happy to ignore that Lids and ShEdwards have spent considerable time there over the last couple of years.

Shed hasn't and deledio has.

 

[Brodders17]

Shed hasn't and deledio has.

You think CD rank Edwards as an elite midfielder? or as an elite small forward? im guessing the latter, and im guessing it is because that is where he spends the majority of his time.
funnily enough 3 of our 4 CD 'elite' players are forwards. yet Hardwick doesnt like to put class in the forwardline?