Danny Frawley

glantone

dog at the footy, punt rd end
Jun 5, 2007
1,066
5
I call bs on that one. What about the people left behind. None of us are experts on this, but at the end of the day, all of us are accountable to our loved
ones. II see it as the easy way out. Just sayin.
After a recent OD fail a friend of mine explained you just want it all (the suffering) to end. Family, friends, partners dont figure in the equation. There's no weighing up of consequences. It's just about ending the pain.

It's not an easy way out. It's the only way out ... as experienced at the time. This is the tragedy of the illness.
 
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Bullarto Tiger

Tiger Legend
Mar 17, 2012
8,152
974
A lot has been said about talking etc but I think much more emphasis should be on getting professional help. I don't know what Lifelinesay if you call them but surely they would have to say Se your doctor first. If your doctor or the specialist they refer you to says you don't have a mental illness treatable with medication and other treatments then see a psychologist ir counsellor to deal with the underlying stressor...relationship, self worth, financial, etc.
to me theses things can't be solved over a beer with a mate.
There is much truth in what you say, Twenty-Second. Professional help is vital if one is finding it hard to rise above the blackness/darkness.
That said, it is good to have some mates with whom you can be open with about life's woes.
Men do need to learn to become better communicators and to understand and accept that it's really okay to reveal and admit to vulnerabilities.
 

123kid

Tiger Superstar
May 1, 2016
1,626
343
Men do need to learn to become better communicators and to understand and accept that it's really okay to reveal and admit to vulnerabilities.
In my opinion (and just an opinion) the opposite is true and 20-30 years from now society’s attitude on this issue will change. I think we’ll do more good by accepting that lots of men aren’t wired that way, and it is probably harmful to assume otherwise.

Otherwise, the underlying assumption is “it’s your fault for remaining depressed because you’re not a good enough emotional communicator to fix yourself”.

I heard a radio ad yesterday that pressured me into talking to someone and telling me what to say in response to an R U OK question... it made me feel bad because I knew I wouldn’t respond in the “ideal” way they told me too.

So you’ve either gotta completely change the instincts of millions of men... or tailor intervention to better suit those men.

It’s true that some will benefit from talking, so I’m not burying the idea, but many won’t benefit and we shouldn’t blame men for not adjusting because their brains evolved to have larger areas in spatial reasoning and smaller areas in verbal fluency.

Right now, the only healing pathway that exists for depressed men is to go to the doctor, take depression meds, and eventually muster up the courage to talk to a psychologist.... which usually doesn’t work. I think 70% of the time it doesn’t work (mixed between genders) and this number is higher for men.

We don’t need to change men, we just need more treatment options to accommodate them... we already have talking intervention strategies in place and they don’t work very well for men.

Then again society in general is becoming more feminised, so maybe you’ll be right and men will learn to speak up
 
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TigerMasochist

Walks softly carries a big stick.
Jul 13, 2003
18,417
610
I heard a radio ad yesterday that pressured me into talking to someone and telling me what to say in response to an R U OK question... it made me feel bad because I knew I wouldn’t respond in the “ideal” way they told me too.
Ahhhh R U OK day. The flatulent tokenism of seeming.

What would you do if you asked the question of a neighbour or work colleague n the answer came back that he had a gun in his pocket n was about to use it, or was just getting into the car so that he / she could ram it into a pylon at 200kph?
Yeah, Nah. Right mate good for a laugh. Doubt there'd be many who'd actually turn n suddenly admit what they were thinking about to either family, friends or token acquaintances
 

waiting

Tiger Legend
Apr 15, 2007
6,764
715
melbourne, victoria
Went off his medication was the reason leading to the crash.
True TF.

Anita mentioned that he stopped his medication and that he stop going to his appointments as well !

Was feeling better and therein lies the problem at times with this disease. You think you are on top of it and an incident, a word, an argument with a loved on or even YOU and it can hit you again.

Its a cycle that can often strike and return. Like a revolving door.

Depression comes in many forms. Doesnt discriminate. Doesnt pick and choose depending on race, nationality or how much money is in your pocket.

I must admit that for a number of days after the news broke i posted my anger at the Herald Sun article as to their reasoning posting such an article and i probably went too far.

It took me maybe 4-5 days to post again and that was during the game ( Lions vs Tigers final ).

I took it hard. I felt for his family. I felt for his friends.

I read the comments many posted on here, most were of a sensitive beautiful nature and a few were quite harsh.

Sometimes us men can be our own worse enemies. Not only to others but mainly to ourselves. To show vulnerability isnt a failure of us as men but a sense that we too have feelings, can hurt ,feel pain and can struggle with what life dishes out.

Not all men were created equal is the old saying which is so true.

With Wednesday being his funeral it will be an emotional day for all his family, friends but also for people who really enjoyed listening to him on radio and his infectious laugh.

I dont really know why im writing this but i just wanted too.

lifeline 13 11 14

beyond blue 1300 22 4636
 
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TigerForce

Richmond has a better list.
Apr 26, 2004
48,880
1,153
True TF.

Anita mentioned that he stopped his medication and that he stop going to his appointments as well !

Was feeling better and therein lies the problem at times with this disease. You think you are on top of it and an incident, a word, an argument with a loved on or even YOU and it can hit you again.

Its a cycle that can often strike and return. Like a revolving door.

Depression comes in many forms. Doesnt discriminate. Doesnt pick and choose depending on race, nationality or how much money is in your pocket.

I must admit that for a number of days after the news broke i posted my anger at the Herald Sun article as to their reasoning posting such an article and i probably went too far.

It took me maybe 4-5 days to post again and that was during the game ( Lions vs Tigers final ).

I took it hard. I felt for his family. I felt for his friends.

I read the comments many posted on here, most were of a sensitive beautiful nature and a few were quite harsh.

Sometimes us men can be our own worse enemies. Not only to others but mainly to ourselves. To show vulnerability isnt a failure of us as men but a sense that we too have feelings, can hurt ,feel pain and can struggle with what life dishes out.

Not all men were created equal is the old saying which is so true.

With Wednesday being his funeral it will be an emotional day for all his family, friends but also for people who really enjoyed listening to him on radio and his infectious laugh.

I dont really know why im writing this but i just wanted too.

lifeline 13 11 14

beyond blue 1300 22 4636
Good post W. I just never knew Danny suffered this badly.
 

22nd Man

Tiger Champion
Aug 29, 2011
4,684
246
Essex Heights
There is much truth in what you say, Twenty-Second. Professional help is vital if one is finding it hard to rise above the blackness/darkness.
That said, it is good to have some mates with whom you can be open with about life's woes.
Men do need to learn to become better communicators and to understand and accept that it's really okay to reveal and admit to vulnerabilities.
The Frawley family statement wraps it all up for me, both Spuds particular circumstances and the process for any of us to follow if similarly Impacted. (And yes 123 it may not be immediately effective, permanent or complete )
 

eZyT

Tiger Legend
Jun 28, 2019
10,974
1,661
Anita Frawleys statement was really powerful and positive.

a proper destigmatising statement.

She highlighted the real, fatal consequences of poorly treated depression

and eluded to there fact that medication regimes are often

like shooting flies with a shotgun.

Spud was feeling a million bucks, bullet proof Anita said.

dare I venture probably for two reasons. 1. The meds are designed to get some serotonin and dopamine squirting, but its a very imprecise science. These things work pretty good and a patient easily gets too much juice, and feels really good. and who needs pills and doctors when you feel really good?; Feeling too good has consequences too. You can make some risky decisions, say some risky things, burn bridges; and 2. The relief that comes from scrambling your way out of a seemingly bottomless, slimy, dark pit produces its own natural euphoria. You're looking at The Devil disappearing in the rear vision mirror. Your soul has flown back into your body, and the sun and the moon and the stars are throwing beautiful shadows all of a sudden. So who wants to pay a shrink $300 to talk about the footy really fast and risk having the doc put the bit back over the tongue?

So, yeah.

Thanks Anita for being so damn honest, and sharing that really important pragmatic message when its the last thing you felt like doing.

please note, I am not suggesting people do not use pharmaceuticals to treat depression.

I am suggesting 1. do so under the supervision of a shrink you trust (GP's can be pretty **** at managing depression. If its bad, have a loved one ask around for a good shrink and get a referral off your doc and go see them; most shrinks are batshit crazy but they can be very good hand with a hand on the tiller of the brain. I find a good simple measure of a shrink is how they respond when you or a loved one asks them 'can you bulk bill, we are a bit skint at the moment?' ) and 2. Trust your loved ones and the feedback they give you about your mood and behaviour. 3. understand that you are probably a whole heap of meat stretched over bone, controlled by hormones and chemicals (sure, your love of Richmond is a real and intangible thing that defies biology and meditation works), and your own insight, feedback and care from your loved ones and some professional supervision will get the machine working good again.

Finally, depressed people are my heroes. whether they get out of bed or not, whether they slay the dragon or not, whether they come to the realisation that we are all in this together, or not.
 
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Scoop

Tiger Legend
Dec 8, 2004
19,636
460
Finally, depressed people are my heroes. whether they get out of bed or not, whether they slay the dragon or not, whether they come to the realisation that we are all in this together, or not.
Outstanding prose. Slay the Dragon is the perfect analogy. You never know when the dragon/depression will swoop down from the clouds and start breathing fire. When it does, your never sure how long it will last and where it goes one it's down it's damage. But the spectre of it on the horizon is sometimes more unbearable than the fire.

The one thing I do know about dragons/depression no one ever defeats them on their own. Don't let anyone fight a dragon on their own.
 
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eZyT

Tiger Legend
Jun 28, 2019
10,974
1,661
The one thing I do know about dragons/depression no one ever defeats them on their own. Don't let anyone fight a dragon on their own.
my oldest brother fought a real doozy on his own for 30 years and he didnt lose.

he's my hero and he's not on his own anymore.
 
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spook

It is only the intellectually lost who ever argue.
Jun 18, 2007
11,054
1,139
Danny was a victim of his own machismo, his ingrained belief ( no matter what he said) that he - Danny Frawley - was weak for needing the help he was getting. Anita said it was his competitive desire to declare he'd won the battle - no doubt - but I'm sure when it all came flooding back he berated himself, "Spud, you weak ****. You weak, weak ****."
He was wrong then, just as he was right to encourage others to put their hand up.

I endorse everything ezy posted.
 
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eZyT

Tiger Legend
Jun 28, 2019
10,974
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You are a good man EzyT.

How did your boy go with his footy this year?
He's tracking well thanks waiting. He's growing well and he is working on his speed and pertinently, his game above the shoulders.

2020 is a big year for him.
 
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spook

It is only the intellectually lost who ever argue.
Jun 18, 2007
11,054
1,139
He's tracking well thanks waiting. He's growing well and he is working on his speed and pertinently, his game above the shoulders.

2020 is a big year for him.
How's his left foot?
 

waiting

Tiger Legend
Apr 15, 2007
6,764
715
melbourne, victoria
He's tracking well thanks waiting. He's growing well and he is working on his speed and pertinently, his game above the shoulders.

2020 is a big year for him.
Good stuff EzyT!
All the best for him next year ok.

It’s all above the shoulders(mostly). Confidence is a big thing. Keep encouraging him.
 
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