David Hicks [Split from Saddam thread]

[the claw]

So, your legal process would be:

1. Capture/apprehension
2. Jail term, punishment
3. charges
4. trial
5. more punishment


Didn't you read his post. He stated 5 years without a trial was disturbing. Far be from to answer on bubbles behalf but I would have thought the legal process should be straightforward:

1. Capture
2. Charges
3. Trial
4. Punishment
5. Rehabilitation

i agree but on the last there should not be a need firing squad is the only rehab that piece of *smile* deserves.

 

[Broadsword95]

People don't live in a vacuum. Of course Australians will be more concerned when it is an Australian being held in such conditions.



An Australian?

I'd contend he gave that right up when he became the cowardly soldier of fortune who became a terrorist who'd kill an Australian for a handful of dollars.

Better men kill for a fistful of dollars. Don't know exactly who though...

 

[IanG]

Gitmo was not the perfect solution. These terrorists were released under the watch of the Bush administration because it's not easy identifying terrorists. But closing down Gitmo won't make identifying terrorists any easier.

I would have thought it proved that guantanamo has even less justification now than it ever had.

 

[RemoteTiger]

Last week we learned that Abdullah Ghulam Rasoul, the Taliban's new top operations officer in southern Afghanistan, was a former Guantanamo Bay prisoner released to the Afghan Government in December 2007. Now known as Mullah Abdullah Zakir, he's commanding areas where the violence has been ramped up in recent months.

In January it was reported that another former inmate at Guantanamo Bay, Said Ali al-Shihri, had emerged as deputy leader of the al-Qa'ida network in Yemen.

According to US officials, al-Shihri, allegedly involved in the bombing of the US embassy in Sana'a last year, and released from Gitmo in 2007, was handed over to the Saudi Government and entered a Saudi rehabilitation program for former jihadists. Nice idea. Didn't work. It turns out you can count on the Taliban and al-Qa'ida to spot the real talent.

Maybe they were Terrorist arseholes when in Gitmo and the Yanks still couldn't figure that our - or maybe they were fundamentalist religious arseholes that after their stint in Gitmo became Terrorists.

Our side is not perfect.

What have the Yanks and the rest of the free world done to these people to make them hate us so much? Maybe the raping and pillaging of their country's natural resources - maybe simply just ripping them off to maintain our standard of living while paying no attention to their standards of living.

We are not Saints and we are prone to looking after ourselves at the expense of others - right through history this sort of activity has always caused uprisings

As for Claw saying we are fighting with one hand tied behind our back and wanting to put a bullet in each of them. Mate you become as low as them - our Defence forces fight for freedom and for all people to be treated equally. If we do what you want then those ideals that make our Defence forces so strong are lost and we become as barbaric as them. Its got fuckall to do with making us feel nice - it is to place us as the civilised people on this planet.

 

[1eyedtiger]

Maybe they were Terrorist *smile*s when in Gitmo and the Yanks still couldn't figure that our - or maybe they were fundamentalist religious *smile*s that after their stint in Gitmo became Terrorists.

Our side is not perfect.

What have the Yanks and the rest of the free world done to these people to make them hate us so much? Maybe the raping and pillaging of their country's natural resources - maybe simply just ripping them off to maintain our standard of living while paying no attention to their standards of living.

We are not Saints and we are prone to looking after ourselves at the expense of others - right through history this sort of activity has always caused uprisings

As for Claw saying we are fighting with one hand tied behind our back and wanting to put a bullet in each of them. Mate you become as low as them - our Defence forces fight for freedom and for all people to be treated equally. If we do what you want then those ideals that make our Defence forces so strong are lost and we become as barbaric as them. Its got *smile*all to do with making us feel nice - it is to place us as the civilised people on this planet.

As far as Muslims are concerned, I don't think that the free world has done anything to make them hate us. It's their religion that teaches them to hate us and everything we stand for. Our very existence is offensive to the fanatics. They believe that all non-believers are infidels and either need to be converted or slaughtered. They refuse to accept anybody else's right to exist. What can you do?

I also don't think that western nations have raped and pillaged Islamic countries for natural resources. At least, no more than Australia has been raped and pillaged for our natural resources. My impression is that the governments of these countries are very wealthy, it's the people who are poor. I don't see how that's the fault of western nations. We pay what we're asked to pay for their natural resources and with regards to oil, we're held at ransom by OPEC who control and manipulate a large portion of the world's oil market. Maybe their standard of living has more to do with dictatorial style governments who couldn't care less about their own citizens and then lay the blame at our feet.

 

[Liverpool]

As far as Muslims are concerned, I don't think that the free world has done anything to make them hate us. It's their religion that teaches them to hate us and everything we stand for. Our very existence is offensive to the fanatics. They believe that all non-believers are infidels and either need to be converted or slaughtered. They refuse to accept anybody else's right to exist. What can you do?

I also don't think that western nations have raped and pillaged Islamic countries for natural resources. At least, no more than Australia has been raped and pillaged for our natural resources. My impression is that the governments of these countries are very wealthy, it's the people who are poor. I don't see how that's the fault of western nations. We pay what we're asked to pay for their natural resources and with regards to oil, we're held at ransom by OPEC who control and manipulate a large portion of the world's oil market. Maybe their standard of living has more to do with dictatorial style governments who couldn't care less about their own citizens and then lay the blame at our feet.

:clap :clap :clap

Yes, it wears a bit thin the "look what the Yanks have done to them" as some sort of excuse or justification for them bringing terrorism to the whole world.

Their matra is simple:

Become a Muslim or die.

Pretty simple, I would have thought.

 

[RemoteTiger]

So the Yanks are perfect? The worlds greatest benefactor - *smile* me this is so wrong and worst part is you know it - the Yanks are so disliked in many many parts of the world because of their arrogant behaviour.

I do not condone Islamic Fundamentalist behaviour - but I can also see why the west is so disliked.

And in a short period of time it will not matter as the world's leading economy will shift from the Americas to Asia - thank God our current leader and past 2 leaders have and are laying the foundations for us to be included in their transition to the world's wealthiest economy.

 

[Liverpool]

So we have a bunch of "Australians" arrested today plotting to kill their fellow Australian soldiers.

Ah, you have to love multiculturalism! :

Trial then execute.....or stripped of their citizenship and returned to their country of origin.
Pretty simple punishment but effective.

And again....I haven't heard one word through the media (radio, TV, or newspaper) where Islamic clerics and the islamic community as a whole are denouncing and protesting against this disgraceful act of offending their religion.

We'll hear the complaints and stories when someone is told they can't wear a burkha...thats offensive and 'racist'.
We'll hear the complaints and stories when there is no prayer room at Melbourne Uni....thats offensive and racist too.
But when people within their own Islamic community are arrested for plotting to kill fellow Australians.....no calls of offensive behaviour or racism then.
The silence is deafening.

 

[scottyturnerscurse]

Dunno how much of it is about religion. And that applies to a few of your other posts above as well.

I live in the Gulf and travel to some of these other countries of interest quite often.

It's about, in this order:

US support of Israel
Foreign troops in Afghanistan
Foreign troops in Iraq
Foreign troops stationed in Saudi.

The fundos that I know don't mind whether you are Christian. In fact, it's preferable you are a Christian rather than an atheist. Jesus, remember, is an apostle in the Koran.

 

[poppa x]

These turkeys are apparently from Somalia or support a regime in Somalia.
I heard a cleric from Somalia on the radio this morning claiming these guys were all non violent, etc etc.
In other words, the sort of guy you'd bring home to meet mum. :rofl

 

[scottyturnerscurse]

Says it all really.

http://www.theage.com.au/photogallery/national/counterterrorism-raids-across-melbourne/20090804-e7yd.html

 

[Big Cat Lover]

Says it all really.

http://www.theage.com.au/photogallery/national/counterterrorism-raids-across-melbourne/20090804-e7yd.html

:rofl :rofl

 

[TigerForce]

Says it all really.

http://www.theage.com.au/photogallery/national/counterterrorism-raids-across-melbourne/20090804-e7yd.html

:hihi

Eddie Al McQaeda.

 

[Liverpool]

Dunno how much of it is about religion. And that applies to a few of your other posts above as well.
I live in the Gulf and travel to some of these other countries of interest quite often.
It's about, in this order:
US support of Israel
Foreign troops in Afghanistan
Foreign troops in Iraq
Foreign troops stationed in Saudi.
The fundos that I know don't mind whether you are Christian. In fact, it's preferable you are a Christian rather than an atheist. Jesus, remember, is an apostle in the Koran.

If you go by what they say themselves....it is all about religion.
You only need to look at the Islamic countries and the way Christians are treated as the 'enemy'....for example, just last weekend:

Pakistan questions 200 after 8 Christians killed
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=8244909

....and the Yanks helping Israel riles them up because they are anti-Jew, which to me is also a religion.

A perfect example is the Iranian leader:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad_and_Israel

It is a pretty simple concept:
Its either Islam or you are an infidel and should die.

 

[Tygrys]

Dunno how much of it is about religion. And that applies to a few of your other posts above as well.

I live in the Gulf and travel to some of these other countries of interest quite often.

It's about, in this order:

US support of Israel
Foreign troops in Afghanistan
Foreign troops in Iraq
Foreign troops stationed in Saudi.

The fundos that I know don't mind whether you are Christian. In fact, it's preferable you are a Christian rather than an atheist. Jesus, remember, is an apostle in the Koran.

Every time Muslims expose themselves for what they are their judisfications change - the constant is a hatred of non-believers sanctioned by their Koran and their Hadiths and it's demand that Islamic dominance be imposed.

Here some others that Muslims have quoted as justification for their violence (and again obviously it's all our fault and we should yeild to all their demands).

- The Danish cartoonists depiction of Muhammed and demands that the paper and the cartoonists should be punished
- Australias intervention into East Timor (which Bin Laden etc believes is Muslim domain and should be part of a future Muslim caliphate despite the fact the East Timorese are all catholic)
- The French government decision to restrict Islamic head dress in state run institutions
- Battle of Tours (October 10, 732) France that stopped the Muslim advance into Europe (you can also add other pivotal Muslim defeats in history, including the expulsion of Muslims from Spain in 1492 and the Battle of Vienna in 1683, all of which no doubt need to be redressed)
- Providing sanctuary to Salman Rushdie
- Western diplomatic efforts to stop the Muslim genocide of Black Sudanese Christians and animists
- Foreign Christian workers simply being in Saudi Arabia period

Those are the ones I can remember off the top of my head as specifically being quoted. I'm sure I could find more with a bit of research. We could address all their grievances - allow the Islamic world to exterminate the Jews of Israel, allow the Taliban to regain control of Afghanistan, allow Iraq to slide into civil war and remove all western troops from Saudi Arabia (which I admit I have no interest in keeping there anyhow), but something else will come up. It's not what we do but who we are that their religion finds offensive.

 

[Merveille]

RemoteTiger,

On the weekend, I responded to Curtis Bear's post, where he also was a staunch supporter of David Hicks' human rights, and the "relentless inhumane treatment and torture over 5 years" David Hicks is alleged to have endured.
He was beaten....he had a light shone in his eyes and wasn't allowed to sleep....he couldn't talk to his lawyer.....what next?
He didn't get cocoa sprinkled on his rice-bubbles? :hihi

Seriously, to me, this "torture" is childs play compared to the torture dished out to innocent civilians by people like David Hicks.

Take a look Remote....do you think this is inhumane treatment, and relentless torture for these people and their families?

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/10/23/1034561533723.html

http://abc.net.au/news/indepth/bali/anniversary_survivors.htm

http://www.theage.com.au/news/war-on-terror/woman-caught-in-bombing-loses-both-legs/2005/07/12/1120934241221.html

http://www.usatoday.com/news/sept11/2002-09-02-jumper_x.htm

To me, THIS is torture.

Now while I am sure you despise terrorists as much as I....I don't doubt that for a second....I do question some of your attitude towards people like Hicks.

It is at a stage now, that terrorists, because they are terrorists, are allowed to do anything they like, because "Well, they're terrorists....I don't condone what they do but..."...and that is all that is said.
It is acceptable and expected practice.

Where are the 6 pages of protest, at the human rights taken away from Jodie Cearns?
Where are the TV stories and newspaper columns editorials, filling up our media everyday, on Gillian Hicks?

As defendants of human rights, I should be reading post after post from yourself and Curtis, about the human rights taken away from the many Australian citizens (most notably, the right to live, which David Hicks still enjoys) by people like Hicks, and by the group Hicks was aiding, training, and abetting with.

But no....it seems Hicks' human rights seem to be more important, because his rights are to perceived to have been abused by the American/Australian Governments, while people like Jodie Cearns and Gillians Hicks, while you may feel sorry for their predicament, well....it was terrorists that got them, so lets get on with it.

While it is honourable that yourself and Curtis are all for human rights, and that should be applauded, you both need to remember this.

Yes, we should be better than terrorists and their way of using human misery to try and push their extreme religous way of living onto the civilised world.
And not in one post have I said that Hicks should be treated in the same manner.
I wouldn't sit in the corner crying if Hicks met the hangman, let me add that....but it angers me more that people seem to be tripping over themselves defending someone, who was training with a group that would kill you and your children, and not lose a wink of sleep over it.

Our forefathers fought for justice and liberty, that is true....yet this justice and liberty was spat on, not by the Australian Government, or the Americans, but by David Hicks....where he took the freedom that our forefathers fought for, to fight alongside terrorists who are killing civilians like you and I!
Yet again, you speak about how David Hicks' rights have been abused.

As I asked Curtis....I would be very interested in your response, if Hicks was not caught, but made it back to Australia, commited a terrorist act, and this was your family:

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/10/01/1064988253351.html

I wonder if your view towards David Hicks' human rights would be paramount in your thoughts then?

Don't seem to see you around here much Liverpool unfortunately, I tend to agree with most of what I have read of your posts.

 

[Panthera tigris FC]

Don't seem to see you around here much Liverpool unfortunately, I tend to agree with most of what I have read of your posts.

Fatwah-envy.

 

[Tiger74]

Fatwah-envy.

that made my night :rofl

 

[Merveille]

that made my night :rofl

Must have been a fun Saturday night tiger 74, just the usual?

 

[RemoteTiger]

Merveille

Are you from anywhere near Liverpool, England? :hihi

For the record - never once argued Hicks' innocence - but did argue that what our soldiers fight for is the right for freedom and justice for all. Hicks IMO did not recieve justice. It was a Kangaroo court at best.

Further if we lower ourselves down to what Liverpool and it appears you believe we should do - we become no better than anarchists ourselves which flies in the face of everything our forefathers and current soldiers fought/fight for and believed in...............

History shows that if we maintain this path we will be victorious and freedom, justice and peoples rights will prevail - and that is our way of life.