English Premier League threads [Merged] | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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English Premier League threads [Merged]

AngryAnt

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
21,502
7,088
I understand how us and the Americans have closed leagues and draft systems but that's ours and their cultures and we live with it, are used to it and have accepted it. But I still believe if Australia had 60, 70M people we'd probably look into a 30-50 team Australia wide competition in a 3 or 4 league system.

There's also something great about the European football codes inclusion of all the countries football teams into a pyramid system like the English 92 league format, and all the local non division teams who can rise into it if they win the Southern League, the Northern League, etc. And all the countries have their local versions of the FA Cup and League Cups for all those teams.

Yeah they have their issues with dominance by a couple of teams and no one else wins anything but there's still some excitement when a Leicester, Atletico Madrid I think Lille are on top in France and change it around for a little bit.

It first sparked my mind when Wimbledon beat my Liverpool in the 1988 FA Cup. 10 years earlier they were a nothing club playing in the Southern League, below the old English Fourth Division and amazingly by 1987 made the First Division (EPL today).

Then they surprised the hell out of the football world by beating one of the best teams in the world in an FA Cup final. From memory Sunderland did the same just before my time in 1971? versus Leeds Utd.

Then we come to today's era, Leicester winning the league, and even as a 'Red' I was hoping they'd win the bloody thing. It's exciting to see absolute underdogs without money behind them, no worldwide fan base, topple the big boys. This is what genuine competition is all about.

I'm even excited to see Utah Jazz and Phoenix Sun's in the NBA hopefully keep their form through the NBA Playoffs. It's so boring Patriots every year, Utd under Fergie, Bayern now going for 10 in a row, Juve with 9 in a row, this gets pretty boring very easily for the rest of the league. Where's the competition?

All the American codes are set up franchise wise and most are there just to make a buck, they'll never win a thing, the owners don't care.
Charlotte, Minnesota teams, Portland, OKC all just money making banks for the owners. And now the players have more say and they're creating their own franchises - LeBron did it at the Heat, KD did it twice now with GWS and the Nets lol. So smaller cities have even less of a chance for success, why would I follow the Hornets.

And now as we see the Leicester's, West Ham, Villa threatening to take yearly nearly guaranteed European spots from them all, there's only 5 Euro spots in England yet 6 are going into the Super League, they want to pick the ball up off the field and run home. But at least they don't have to qualify yearly for Europe do they aye :rolleyes: (Chelsea hanging on in 4th, Spurs outside Euro q'fication in 6th,Liverpool 7th, Arsenal 9th, Juve 4th in Italy, Barca 4th)

Yep. In Australia there is a push for a second A League division and promotion / relegation. IMO we don't have the population for that but get the sentiment, it's one of the best things about football.

Apparently the ESL clubs had already signed on and payed significant fees, so it went far beyond "exploring options". Perez is talking about legal obligations and penalties for those that pulled out but he's desperate and delusional.

Big football is corrupt enough, but at least we've had one victory for the fans and the smaller clubs for once.
 
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Ricemagic

Tiger Cub
Feb 8, 2021
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186
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ManU is another example of a highly debt leveraged entity.
Yep, listening to Gary Neville attack the Glazer's was something I thought I'd never see, he said he kept his mouth quiet for years, but he can't no more. And even though I'm a Liverpool fan, I still respect the other clubs culture and histories, I don't have to like them on the park, but the history of all the sports codes I follow I'm massively into, and to hear him say Old Trafford is a run-down mire. The steel is falling down in some parts of the stadium, the Glazer's have sucked every cent out of the club and left the facilities for us, the supporters decading away.

As someone who had dream's to attend a mid-week Euro night at Old Trafford, see a rivalry game between us both on a weekend, it was sad, I get the feeling he's going to pass that cost onto the next owner, or do some new crazy ponzi scheme everyone else will fund. :(
 
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Ricemagic

Tiger Cub
Feb 8, 2021
125
186
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Yep. In Australia there is a push for a second A League division and promotion / relegation. IMO we don't have the population for that but get the sentiment, it's one of the best things about football.

Apparently the ESL clubs had already signed on and payed significant fees, so it went far beyond "exploring options". Perez is talking about legal obligations and penalties for those that pulled out but he's desperate and delusional.

Big football is corrupt enough, but at least we've had one victory for the fans and the smaller clubs for once.
Mate there's no one discounts UEFA and FIFA have their problems, and it's been slightly improving but at least the power is still with the people, the power is still with the clubs. These guys want to take it away from everyone and just 20 of them control the money flowing into the game, and hand out little specs here and there, if they ever would. I mean we're up FIFA because only a few controlled where World Cup's where going too and pocketed heaps of cash, and this is doing exactly the same thing, putting the decision-making, the money, the power of the game all into only a few hands.

Immagine Carlton, Collingwood, Essendon, Hawks, West Coast, Sydney, Brisbane and Port decide they want to venture off into some Super league and we're not invited, we'd be rightly ticked off big time!! :(
 
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Ian4

BIN MAN!
May 6, 2004
20,244
1,365
Melbourne
Yep. In Australia there is a push for a second A League division and promotion / relegation. IMO we don't have the population for that but get the sentiment, it's one of the best things about football.

It’s coming. The Australian second tier is starting in 2023. And it’s really exciting. its gonna completely change the landscape.

As for not having the population… there are countries with smaller populations than ours that have much more expansive football pyramids.
 
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AngryAnt

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
21,502
7,088
It’s coming. The Australian second tier is starting in 2023. And it’s really exciting. its gonna completely change the landscape.

As for not having the population… there are countries with smaller populations than ours that have much more expansive football pyramids.
sure. I hope it works.

I see that football is in a tenuous position right now - lack of crowds, uncertainty over revenue streams, poor ratings. On top of our small population we also have much more competition - AFL, league, etc etc.
 
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AngryAnt

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
21,502
7,088
Mate there's no one discounts UEFA and FIFA have their problems, and it's been slightly improving but at least the power is still with the people, the power is still with the clubs. These guys want to take it away from everyone and just 20 of them control the money flowing into the game, and hand out little specs here and there, if they ever would. I mean we're up FIFA because only a few controlled where World Cup's where going too and pocketed heaps of cash, and this is doing exactly the same thing, putting the decision-making, the money, the power of the game all into only a few hands.

Immagine Carlton, Collingwood, Essendon, Hawks, West Coast, Sydney, Brisbane and Port decide they want to venture off into some Super league and we're not invited, we'd be rightly ticked off big time!! :(

we are in furious agreement Riceman
 
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Ricemagic

Tiger Cub
Feb 8, 2021
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we are in furious agreement Riceman
And seriously, The Big 12, lol. No Bayern (6 wins), PSG, no Ajax (4 wins), but Spurs and Atletico, Arsenal, City (all four with 0 wins) even Inter Milan, have done nothing over 10 years now, they're joking right? :rotfl1
Juve are so big they win every Italian League title, but amazingly won just the 2 Euro Cup/Cham League's, in 65 years. Notts Forest have won it twice, Benfica and Porto twice each, where they at? :))
 

taztiger4

Shovelheads- Keeping hipsters off Harley's
Jul 13, 2005
5,879
2,830
Richmond Victoria
And seriously, The Big 12, lol. No Bayern (6 wins), PSG, no Ajax (4 wins), but Spurs and Atletico, Arsenal, City (all four with 0 wins) even Inter Milan, have done nothing over 10 years now, they're joking right? :rotfl1
Juve are so big they win every Italian League title, but amazingly won just the 2 Euro Cup/Cham League's, in 65 years. Notts Forest have won it twice, Benfica and Porto twice each, where they at? :))
Yep, even shitty old Aston Villa have won it
 
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Panthera Tigris

Tiger Champion
Apr 27, 2010
2,515
240
I understand how us and the Americans have closed leagues and draft systems but that's ours and their cultures and we live with it, are used to it and have accepted it. But I still believe if Australia had 60, 70M people we'd probably look into a 30-50 team Australia wide competition in a 3 or 4 league system.

There's also something great about the European football codes inclusion of all the countries football teams into a pyramid system like the English 92 league format, and all the local non division teams who can rise into it if they win the Southern League, the Northern League, etc. And all the countries have their local versions of the FA Cup and League Cups for all those teams.

Yeah they have their issues with dominance by a couple of teams and no one else wins anything but there's still some excitement when a Leicester, Atletico Madrid I think Lille are on top in France and change it around for a little bit.

It first sparked my mind when Wimbledon beat my Liverpool in the 1988 FA Cup. 10 years earlier they were a nothing club playing in the Southern League, below the old English Fourth Division and amazingly by 1987 made the First Division (EPL today).

Then they surprised the hell out of the football world by beating one of the best teams in the world in an FA Cup final. From memory Sunderland did the same just before my time in 1971? versus Leeds Utd.

Then we come to today's era, Leicester winning the league, and even as a 'Red' I was hoping they'd win the bloody thing. It's exciting to see absolute underdogs without money behind them, no worldwide fan base, topple the big boys. This is what genuine competition is all about.

I'm even excited to see Utah Jazz and Phoenix Sun's in the NBA hopefully keep their form through the NBA Playoffs. It's so boring Patriots every year, Utd under Fergie, Bayern now going for 10 in a row, Juve with 9 in a row, this gets pretty boring very easily for the rest of the league. Where's the competition?

All the American codes are set up franchise wise and most are there just to make a buck, they'll never win a thing, the owners don't care.
Charlotte, Minnesota teams, Portland, OKC all just money making banks for the owners. And now the players have more say and they're creating their own franchises - LeBron did it at the Heat, KD did it twice now with GWS and the Nets lol. So smaller cities have even less of a chance for success, why would I follow the Hornets.

And now as we see the Leicester's, West Ham, Villa threatening to take yearly nearly guaranteed European spots from them all, there's only 5 Euro spots in England yet 6 are going into the Super League, they want to pick the ball up off the field and run home. But at least they don't have to qualify yearly for Europe do they aye :rolleyes: (Chelsea hanging on in 4th, Spurs outside Euro q'fication in 6th,Liverpool 7th, Arsenal 9th, Juve 4th in Italy, Barca 4th)
One could also argue Nottingham Forest's run during the 1970s into the 1980s was another example of a previously unfashionable club being able to engineer an era to be very proud of. As a kid watching the FA Cup, I look fondly on some of the impressive cup runs sides like Wycombe Wanderers, Wrexham and Millwall had too. It adds to the excitement, romanticism and not to mention, the deep, indescribable connection the game has with it's grass roots and to the fabric of grass roots society more generally.

There is so much more to sport than money. In fact these deep seeded connections to the community fabric are worth way more than money and casual TV audiences intertwined with the $$. But sports administrators have totally lost sight of this.
 
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Panthera Tigris

Tiger Champion
Apr 27, 2010
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And seriously, The Big 12, lol. No Bayern (6 wins), PSG, no Ajax (4 wins), but Spurs and Atletico, Arsenal, City (all four with 0 wins) even Inter Milan, have done nothing over 10 years now, they're joking right? :rotfl1
Juve are so big they win every Italian League title, but amazingly won just the 2 Euro Cup/Cham League's, in 65 years. Notts Forest have won it twice, Benfica and Porto twice each, where they at? :))
Even Leeds have won something of substance more recently than Spurs. And they've only just come back to the Premier League after 16 years of banishment. ;)

(That's of course if one considers the League Cup as something of substance).
 
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Ian4

BIN MAN!
May 6, 2004
20,244
1,365
Melbourne
sure. I hope it works.

I see that football is in a tenuous position right now - lack of crowds, uncertainty over revenue streams, poor ratings. On top of our small population we also have much more competition - AFL, league, etc etc.

The only thing I agree with is that the game has been on the wane. there are a number of reason for that, but mainly due to incompetence of the FFA, the disgraceful treatment by fox sports and a hostile media. we have been over this numerous times on the A-Legaue thread.

but we have reached rock bottom and things are on the way up. Firstly, it has been a sensational season so far. brilliant end to end games and a good standard. probably the best season ever on the park.

But the now that A-League and W-League are independent, decisions can now be made for the best interests of the league, starting with much better promotion of the game (which has been non-existant in recent years). We’re getting better people in the right positions, the TV rights are the final throws of negotiation, there will be much more certainty over player salaries, which should reduce the issue re the revolving door system of players. A transfer system is coming, the second tier is coming, the women’s world cup is in Australia, expanding to 14 teams is around the corner, promotion and relegation before the decade is out, etc, etc
 
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Ricemagic

Tiger Cub
Feb 8, 2021
125
186
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One could also argue Nottingham Forest's run during the 1970s into the 1980s was another example of a previously unfashionable club being able to engineer an era to be very proud of. As a kid watching the FA Cup, I look fondly on some of the impressive cup runs sides like Wycombe Wanderers, Wrexham and Millwall had too. It adds to the excitement, romanticism and not to mention, the deep, indescribable connection the game has with it's grass roots and to the fabric of grass roots society more generally.
That's a great get, Notts Forest :) Didn't mind the old Peter Withe up front then being a striker myself, lol. Also Northampton, Division Two then, knocking Liverpool out of the Carling Cup - at Anfield - 69 places in the league's difference!! :oops:
 

Ricemagic

Tiger Cub
Feb 8, 2021
125
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Even Leeds have won something of substance more recently than Spurs. And they've only just come back to the Premier League after 16 years of banishment. ;)

(That's of course if one considers the League Cup as something of substance).
League titles - Spurs - 51 & 61. Leeds - all three after them - 69, 74 & 92
 

AngryAnt

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
21,502
7,088
Yep, even shitty old Aston Villa have won it
Celtic made the semi a few times I think? Even the final once?

In the 90s when Leeds hit the big time with Kewell, Viduka, O'Leary and did well in the UCL they went nuts and bought expensive new players and it nearly bankrupted them, they flopped, relegated, and just made it back to the top level after 25 years or so out in the lower leagues. That was mismanagement of course, but it's high stakes either way.
 
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Baloo

Delisted Free Agent
Nov 8, 2005
38,782
8,582
The only thing I agree with is that the game has been on the wane. there are a number of reason for that, but mainly due to incompetence of the FFA, the disgraceful treatment by fox sports and a hostile media. we have been over this numerous times on the A-Legaue thread.

but we have reached rock bottom and things are on the way up. Firstly, it has been a sensational season so far. brilliant end to end games and a good standard. probably the best season ever on the park.

As someone that has followed to sport most of my life and remembers the excitement when Soccer Australia launched the NSL in 1977, trust me, you don't know what real incompetence looks like. Nor are we anywhere near rock bottom.
 
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Ricemagic

Tiger Cub
Feb 8, 2021
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Celtic made the semi a few times I think? Even the final once?

In the 90s when Leeds hit the big time with Kewell, Viduka, O'Leary and did well in the UCL they went nuts and bought expensive new players and it nearly bankrupted them, they flopped, relegated, and just made it back to the top level after 25 years or so out in the lower leagues. That was mismanagement of course, but it's high stakes either way.
Good call, Celtic were the first British club to win the old European Cup - 1967 - a year before United did it in 68. then the Celts made the 1970 final
 

Panthera Tigris

Tiger Champion
Apr 27, 2010
2,515
240
The only thing I agree with is that the game has been on the wane. there are a number of reason for that, but mainly due to incompetence of the FFA, the disgraceful treatment by fox sports and a hostile media. we have been over this numerous times on the A-Legaue thread.

but we have reached rock bottom and things are on the way up. Firstly, it has been a sensational season so far. brilliant end to end games and a good standard. probably the best season ever on the park.

But the now that A-League and W-League are independent, decisions can now be made for the best interests of the league, starting with much better promotion of the game (which has been non-existant in recent years). We’re getting better people in the right positions, the TV rights are the final throws of negotiation, there will be much more certainty over player salaries, which should reduce the issue re the revolving door system of players. A transfer system is coming, the second tier is coming, the women’s world cup is in Australia, expanding to 14 teams is around the corner, promotion and relegation before the decade is out, etc, etc
Just hypothisising here as an observation Ian.

Being in Tasmania, I've never really been able to get into the A-League. The kind of manufactured franchised feel of the league just means I haven't been able to look at it as more than just a casual observer. Just doesn't have that feel of being deeply connected to the community fabric. Perhaps it's because my own home, that I feel great connection of place to, wasn't included. Or maybe others actually in areas with teams feel the same as me.....I honestly don't know. Melbourne Victory and more recently Western United (meh...what an aimlessly abstract name that doesn't really ooze with connectedness to any area) have tried to engage a bit in the TAS, but it just feels a bit tokenistic.

And it is a sport with a huge grass roots. Participation in the junior ranks is strong. But one just doesn't feel the interconnectedness between this level, through the adult community clubs to the A-League. A-League just feels a bit ring fenced and hence doesn't capture the imagination of the masses at the bottom of the pyramid. Not sure if I am being a bit harsh, or whether it will just take time (perhaps decades) for this to happen as an organic kind of evolution.

Personally, I took more interest when one of the local clubs around my area (fully Amateur) had an unexpectedly good run in the FFA cup, up against larger semi-professional clubs from Melbourne and Sydney (the likes of the old Melbourne and Sydney Croatia - or whatever they are called now).