English Premier League threads [Merged] | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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English Premier League threads [Merged]

AngryAnt

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
21,553
7,117
If they attempt to punish these clubs it will just restart these conversations with the clubs being more determined.

Who signed the contracts? The legal entity that has agreements with the FAs or a seperate legal entity just for this proposed league? The associations punishing these clubs will be as successful as the super league itself.
yeah I don't understand any of what you are saying there baloo.

Imagine if Collingwood, Richmond, Sydney, Brisbane and WCE just announced they will start up a new competition running midweek that only they are invited to without consulting the AFL about it. They've all signed up, it starts next season.

How do you reckon that would go down?
 
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Baloo

Delisted Free Agent
Nov 8, 2005
38,831
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yeah I don't understand any of what you are saying there baloo.

Imagine if Collingwood, Richmond, Sydney, Brisbane and WCE just announced they will start up a new competition running midweek that only they are invited to without consulting the AFL about it. They've all signed up, it starts next season.

How do you reckon that would go down?

Trying to compare AFL clubs with privately owned clubs European/global powerhouses, some hitting close to 1 billion in revenue, is a non-starter.
 
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eZyT

Tiger Legend
Jun 28, 2019
15,296
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yeah I don't understand any of what you are saying there baloo.

Imagine if Collingwood, Richmond, Sydney, Brisbane and WCE just announced they will start up a new competition running midweek that only they are invited to without consulting the AFL about it. They've all signed up, it starts next season.

How do you reckon that would go down?

North probably should announce they are joining the VFL.

but at least they'de have an extraordinary GM and consult their members.

I dont know a lot about soccer, but it seems ownership by obscenely rich people,

who have gotten obsencely rich by disregarding other people their whole lives ,

is pretty crap

if Gina Rinehart bought Richmond, I think I'd renounce them
 
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mrposhman

Tiger Legend
Oct 6, 2013
9,745
5,971
North probably should announce they are joining the VFL.

but at least they'de have an extraordinary GM and consult their members.

I dont know a lot about soccer, but it seems ownership by obscenely rich people,

who have gotten obsencely rich by disregarding other people their whole lives ,

is pretty crap

if Gina Rinehart bought Richmond, I think I'd renounce them

There is a difference in those that own certain clubs though.

Largely the Russians and the Arabs see ownership of the football clubs as a bit of a play thing.

The Americans however, I suspect are looking for an exit strategy (as they tend to invest for profit rather than entertainment) and therefore the Super League made sense. It would ensure significant revenue increases and largely increase the value of those clubs for whenever the Americans wanted to make an exit. That to me is what is driving this, its got nothing to do with the sport, the fans etc hence why practically all stakeholders are against this idea, and all about maximising valuations for whenever those owners want to make an exit.
 
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AngryAnt

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
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As a Spurs fan, I believe all clubs should still be sanctioned harshly to ensure it never happens again. i would still go with a 30 point deduction.

Yep. Fans love football but they are getting sick and tired of the extraction of money that gets worse every year. Season ticket prices, TV subscriptions.
 
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AngryAnt

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
21,553
7,117
There is a difference in those that own certain clubs though.

Largely the Russians and the Arabs see ownership of the football clubs as a bit of a play thing.

The Americans however, I suspect are looking for an exit strategy (as they tend to invest for profit rather than entertainment) and therefore the Super League made sense. It would ensure significant revenue increases and largely increase the value of those clubs for whenever the Americans wanted to make an exit. That to me is what is driving this, its got nothing to do with the sport, the fans etc hence why practically all stakeholders are against this idea, and all about maximising valuations for whenever those owners want to make an exit.

It's also about those big, successful, incredibly wealthy clubs breaking the monopoly and stranglehold of the FA/UEFA/FIFA. "We are too big and powerful now, we can call the shots, the governing bodies are out of date".

Looks like the popular reaction has put them back in their place this time.
 
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AngryAnt

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
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Andrea Agnelli resigns as chairman of Juve.

Big gamble from the leadership of all these clubs, looks like they have lost and heads are starting to roll.

The "we were just exploring our options" angle might work in the courts but it clearly won't wash with the fans, sponsors and internal stakeholders in the clubs.
 
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Panthera Tigris

Tiger Champion
Apr 27, 2010
2,515
240
There is a difference in those that own certain clubs though.

Largely the Russians and the Arabs see ownership of the football clubs as a bit of a play thing.

The Americans however, I suspect are looking for an exit strategy (as they tend to invest for profit rather than entertainment) and therefore the Super League made sense. It would ensure significant revenue increases and largely increase the value of those clubs for whenever the Americans wanted to make an exit. That to me is what is driving this, its got nothing to do with the sport, the fans etc hence why practically all stakeholders are against this idea, and all about maximising valuations for whenever those owners want to make an exit.
You know Posh, I remember reading a few years ago of an American owner of a number of sporting franchises across NBA, MLB, NFL and NHL. He came to the UK to look at buying a football (soccer) team. From memory, Aston Villa was his primary interest, plus a couple of others. He took one look at the books and his eyes watered at the scale of money needed and the level of insolvency these operations technically operate under. As in, they don't run at a profit and need owners continued (eye watering amount of) capital injection.

That was enough for him to turn around and get back on the next plane home. But gives you an idea of the difference in mindset. At least he had the respect, to say, "yep, not for me." But the JP Morgan bankers (and associated people) have decided to actually try and nuke the entire environment to then fit in with their business model.....and *smile* everyone else who gets burnt in the process.

I know you mentioned earlier that the ownership structure in England (being different than Germany) is one reason why England becomes a target for these cashed up buyers, as it creates an environment where English clubs will sell their soul to the highest bidder. Additionally, it is intertwined with the fact that English football clubs are often not run with any thought to financial prudence (compared to the German model that highly values this element). So they live well beyond their means, backing themselves into a dire financial corner where they need to accept the highest - sometimes ugliest - bidder.
 
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mrposhman

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Oct 6, 2013
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This is a great article written nearly 3 years ago but shows what the "Big 6" plans have always been.

The Premier League understands the value of the EFL which is why they provide funding to EFL clubs. Around about 15% of PL revenues are redistributed to the EFL clubs (solidarity and academy payments).


Even way back then, the "Big 6" wanted more of the TV revenue for themselves at the expense of not only other PL clubs, but by also reducing the amount of PL revenue that was redistributed to the EFL. Largely the American owners do not understand their system, its alien to US sports and something they therefore deem an irrelevance, but ask the fans / players etc and its one of the biggest drawing factors for most about the value of the English football league system.

This ESL was another example, where they wanted to take money away from other areas of the FL pyramid and ensure that it was kept into the hands of the Big 6 only. Who here thinks that the ESL would have provided 15% of the revenue of the ESL to clubs outside of the ESL?? Easy answer is no-one believes that.
 
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AngryAnt

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
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This is a great article written nearly 3 years ago but shows what the "Big 6" plans have always been.

The Premier League understands the value of the EFL which is why they provide funding to EFL clubs. Around about 15% of PL revenues are redistributed to the EFL clubs (solidarity and academy payments).


Even way back then, the "Big 6" wanted more of the TV revenue for themselves at the expense of not only other PL clubs, but by also reducing the amount of PL revenue that was redistributed to the EFL. Largely the American owners do not understand their system, its alien to US sports and something they therefore deem an irrelevance, but ask the fans / players etc and its one of the biggest drawing factors for most about the value of the English football league system.

This ESL was another example, where they wanted to take money away from other areas of the FL pyramid and ensure that it was kept into the hands of the Big 6 only. Who here thinks that the ESL would have provided 15% of the revenue of the ESL to clubs outside of the ESL?? Easy answer is no-one believes that.

yep, still holds true and this won't be the last attempt of this sort either.

BTW the UEFA proposed Champions League expansion also sux ballz, but it's not as bad as this.
 
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AngryAnt

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
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Trying to compare AFL clubs with privately owned clubs European/global powerhouses, some hitting close to 1 billion in revenue, is a non-starter.

Arguing that clubs can sign on to a rebel competition to rake in even more obscene profits and still expect to face no consequences from the fans, leagues and competitions they are screwing is an even worse non-starter.

You are reading the situation about as well as they did.
 
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Baloo

Delisted Free Agent
Nov 8, 2005
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Arguing that clubs can sign on to a rebel competition to rake in even more obscene profits and still expect to face no consequences from the fans, leagues and competitions they are screwing is an even worse non-starter.

You are reading the situation about as well as they did.

We'll see what punishment the associations hand out to the clubs soon enough I suppose.
 
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AngryAnt

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
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Will that mean I did read the situation right after all

Sure, if nothing happens and these clubs are allowed to go on their merry way to keep playing with no fines, no points deductions, no bans from Euro competition etc etc.
 
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Streak

Tiger Legend
Aug 31, 2007
35,146
2,136
Western Australia
Think sides like North , Carlton and Collingwood should join the new super league .. they will have more success there :))

Collingwood were keen but Juventus said no because no one else is allowed to wear the prison bar jumpers.

Carlton were keen but Milan and Inter rejected them because they felt three Italian clubs were enough.

Everyone rejected North because they felt Tasmania was just a little to far to travel for away games.
 
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Ricemagic

Tiger Cub
Feb 8, 2021
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I understand how us and the Americans have closed leagues and draft systems but that's ours and their cultures and we live with it, are used to it and have accepted it. But I still believe if Australia had 60, 70M people we'd probably look into a 30-50 team Australia wide competition in a 3 or 4 league system.

There's also something great about the European football codes inclusion of all the countries football teams into a pyramid system like the English 92 league format, and all the local non division teams who can rise into it if they win the Southern League, the Northern League, etc. And all the countries have their local versions of the FA Cup and League Cups for all those teams.

Yeah they have their issues with dominance by a couple of teams and no one else wins anything but there's still some excitement when a Leicester, Atletico Madrid I think Lille are on top in France and change it around for a little bit.

It first sparked my mind when Wimbledon beat my Liverpool in the 1988 FA Cup. 10 years earlier they were a nothing club playing in the Southern League, below the old English Fourth Division and amazingly by 1987 made the First Division (EPL today).

Then they surprised the hell out of the football world by beating one of the best teams in the world in an FA Cup final. From memory Sunderland did the same just before my time in 1971? versus Leeds Utd.

Then we come to today's era, Leicester winning the league, and even as a 'Red' I was hoping they'd win the bloody thing. It's exciting to see absolute underdogs without money behind them, no worldwide fan base, topple the big boys. This is what genuine competition is all about.

I'm even excited to see Utah Jazz and Phoenix Sun's in the NBA hopefully keep their form through the NBA Playoffs. It's so boring Patriots every year, Utd under Fergie, Bayern now going for 10 in a row, Juve with 9 in a row, this gets pretty boring very easily for the rest of the league. Where's the competition?

All the American codes are set up franchise wise and most are there just to make a buck, they'll never win a thing, the owners don't care.
Charlotte, Minnesota teams, Portland, OKC all just money making banks for the owners. And now the players have more say and they're creating their own franchises - LeBron did it at the Heat, KD did it twice now with GWS and the Nets lol. So smaller cities have even less of a chance for success, why would I follow the Hornets.

And now as we see the Leicester's, West Ham, Villa threatening to take yearly nearly guaranteed European spots from them all, there's only 5 Euro spots in England yet 6 are going into the Super League, they want to pick the ball up off the field and run home. But at least they don't have to qualify yearly for Europe do they aye :rolleyes: (Chelsea hanging on in 4th, Spurs outside Euro q'fication in 6th,Liverpool 7th, Arsenal 9th, Juve 4th in Italy, Barca 4th)
 
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