Essendon = Entitlement | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Essendon = Entitlement

There's a few things there that are very important so let me address them one by one.

Firstly, it's not me saying 12 other clubs had enormous issues or a single article in the Age. The information came from a survey conducted by the AFL of every club. The information is what the clubs reported, voluntarily.

It was presented to senior club medical personnel by the AFLCHO at a meeting in Grand Final week. Somewhat interestingly it didn't make the media for several weeks and only received a brief mention.

There is no dispute about the veracity of the information by the AFL or the clubs. It is their information.

That information contains these crucial points:

Players from 9 clubs were independently sourcing supplements.

So in an area so precarious ASADA's advice is don't take them, you have players off their own bat taking supplements, with no supervision. To my knowledge their isn't a player in the AFL who has had a biochemistry or sports science degree so who was checking the validity of the substances? Where were they being sourced from? Were the conditions they were produced in free of contamination? Were the suppliers ASADA approved? And how many players? Was it 9 players, one at each club or every player at nine clubs which would be what 400 plus?

So there's the first pile of bodies. The question is how did they die, was it natural causes or something more sinister? There's certainly more than enough evidence to justify an investigation.

Then to the club issues. 12 clubs taking medium to high levels of supplements, lacking a single point of accountability, with an unsatisfactory definition of supplements, and flawed selection of support staff personnel.

So here we are pumping lots of stuff into our players, without proper checks and balances, which may or may not fit the definition of a supplement (if not then who knows what it is), and the people in charge haven't been properly selected.

Now which other club's program does that sound like I wonder?

That's a whole new pile of dead bodies, but again we don't know how they died because it has never been investigated.

And then there is this final question. If that is the sort of damning information players and clubs offered up voluntarily, how much other stuff did they choose not to mention?



Again, you're looking at it through an ethical point of view, which isn't relevant to my point.

The drug codes don't care how you transgress. It doesn't matter if you are an Essendon player with a thymosin injection, Travis Casserley with a Sudafed, Ahmed Saad with a sports drink or the Collingwood lads with laced cocaine.

If you breach the code you cop a lengthy suspension. Doesn't matter if you are ignorant, stupid, unlucky or an out and out cheat.

The accepted way to dismiss the evidence in the AFL report seems to be 'yeah but Essendon did worse' and that just doesn't wash. Let's take Essendon as read. They did what they did and were investigated and copped their whack. We can debate if the penalty should have been more or less but we can't debate that they were dealt with by the system. So let's remove them from the equation.

Then read the reply above and tell me where the transparency and integrity is in the AFL's treatment of those 12 clubs and the 9 clubs with rogue players.

It is a disgrace and a sham. And as far as I am concerned every player and official in the AFL that season now wears a shadow on their reputation, myself included, because highly questionable programs have been allowed to pass by without proper investigation.

TBR understand what you are saying, but you don't know any of the details like none of us do.

The AFL decided to investigate Essendon and then had the feedback that you suggested, but they are all statements without any knowledge. '

Of the 9 that you say were sourcing supplements themselves, maybe they kept records (which Essendon did not) and could prove what they were, and maybe none were on the banned list. Clearly no need for an investigation but maybe a "be careful" statement to said players.

Again those 12 clubs could be in entirely the same situation, where they were sourcing supplements but again maybe that had adequate record keeping and could prove what they were taking when they self reported.

What we do know, is Essendon self reported, as did 12 other clubs as you tell us, as do 9 individual players. 1 club is investigated by the AFL, so that tells me something is very different with what they self reported.
 
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Again, you're looking at it through an ethical point of view, which isn't relevant to my point.

The drug codes don't care how you transgress. It doesn't matter if you are an Essendon player with a thymosin injection, Travis Casserley with a Sudafed, Ahmed Saad with a sports drink or the Collingwood lads with laced cocaine.

Absolutely relevant to my point though. What Essendon did was unprecedented. It was borderline criminal. It was found guilty by CAS and quite frankly the Club is lucky only the players got suspended. I believe the rules have changed globally so if another Essendon case is found out, WADA/CAS have the power to go after the club officials.

That is so far removed from Casserley and Saad that they really shouldn't even come up in the Essendon Illicit Performing Enhancing Drugs debate. You're comparing a dim-witted player to a club that implemented a clandestine performance enhancing injection programme on the bulk of it's players.
 
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I'm not comparing those two players with a club though, I'm comparing those two players with 34 Essendon players. They were all banned for taking an illegal substance. That's all the code cares about and through that lens they are identical.

True, by the absolute letter of the law they are guilty of the same offence.

But there are degrees of guilt/law breaking. If you go 65km/h in a 60km/h zone, you have broken the law. If you go 160km/h in a 60km/h zone, you have broken the law.

In your argument they are the same thing, both broke the law. In mine it's about degrees, intent and recklessness. The I suspect other 9+12 you keep bringing up are closer to the 65km/h speedster then the EFC's 160km/h death trap. Maybe that close to the 60km/h limit that the resources required to investigate, charge them doesn't make sense. But if they happen top get caught by a speed trap, aka random in season drug testing, then they cop their fair whack.

In this case, when the 160km/h speedsters got hauled up in front of a judge, they lied through their teeth just to make things worse.
 
That's true, we are making different points and I don't disagree with yours about Essendon.

I'm not comparing those two players with a club though, I'm comparing those two players with 34 Essendon players. They were all banned for taking an illegal substance. That's all the code cares about and through that lens they are identical.

My point is had the same standard of investigation applied to every player in the competition as was applied to the 34 from Essendon, then I believe there would have been hundreds of players suspended across the entire competition.

Believe what you like - it doesn’t make it right and it doesn’t mean it happened e.g. Donald Trump
So by all means “believe” that there would have been hundreds of players .... blah blah blah

It’s becoming clearer by the page that you don’t know any more than most and it’s all coming back to your personal interpretations and “belief”
 
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Your logic is perfectly fine for things like the legal system but it just isn't the way a drug code works.

The entire basis of the code is intentionally clear cut and black and white. Take a banned substance and you are suspended for a long time. No excuses, no ifs, buts or maybes.

That way the old someone spiked my drink bottle doesn't wash. Someone spiked your drink bottle? Bad luck, protect it better when you come back in two years time.

That's why you have people who everyone knows made a genuine mistake; drank the wrong sports drink, took a cold and flu, borrowed mum's tablet to look thinner for a presser, had a Drs prescription and forgot to do the paperwork all getting their full whack. Mistakes are just not acceptable.

The only way you can get any discount is if you can show no significant fault or negligence and even then you still cop half the penalty (the Essendon players didn't get that by the way).

So to borrow your analogy, you can be driving 65kmph in a 60 zone because the car has malfunctioned and the cruise control is stuck on and you will still get 12 months of a 2 year sentence. That's how harsh it is.

Yes, that's the law, I understand that. And if the not on a match day energy drink gets drunk and the fool gets caught, then he cops it sweet. Harsh, but that's the way it is.

Now, in that case I could agree that the player is hard done by. But no issues there, it's all his fault and he shouldn't be given leniency, it's still tough to cop.

But never, in any reasonable view, can the EFC 34 been considered hard done by. Multiple off site injections, sworn to secrecy, told not to tell their Dr. When dragged before CAS they lied through their teeth. Well, they got what they deserved. The lucky ones are the club officials who at the time couldn't be sanctioned by CAS/WADA.
 
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This has got the scent of Essendon all over it.

Didn't the Dons try and scare clubs away from Dyson Heppell by spreading misinformation?

NB: This kid could be in a bit of trouble.

You'd have to think that this has draft tampering written all over it.
 
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I do believe however, if there was a problem with players at various clubs, it would have managed it by clubs announcing long term injuries (including mental health), retirements, delistings and the like. .
Cough - Alistair Lynch - chronic fatigue injury - cough.
 
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I hope it gets to 60,000.

Can‘t stand them, they still think their a powerhoushe.

Long may their suffering continue.
 
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Hell, it is 106 days since we have won a final and I am starting to get toey.

Roll on season 2021 :mhihi :mhihi :mhihi
 
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I hope it gets to 60,000.

Can‘t stand them, they still think their a powerhoushe.

Long may their suffering continue.


Richmond, Collingwood, West Coast and the Crows are the big 4 as of right now.

Blues and Drugs would most likely round out the top 8 with the Cats and Hawks.

Obviously their lack of success has dropped them back the power rankings.

West Coast and Adelaide are forever power houses whether they are winning or not.
 
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