Feminism

[tigerdell]

Hammer. Nail. Head. Some have this perception that men are more likely to be bad people. It's 50/50, as you would logically expect.

Worth considering that a significant push is to make the "bad people" accountable. Plenty of rotten fish, both male and female.
But there has been a systemic advantage that is largely skewed to rotten males with connections to power.
That doesnt mean that every man has got a free pass, but plenty of men (with money) have.
There is generally an agenda to bring equality and accountability to illegal behaviour. Fair enough too.
Some voices are extremist but It doesn't cancel the need for equality

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

Worth considering that a significant push is to make the "bad people" accountable. Plenty of rotten fish, both male and female.
But there has been a systemic advantage that is largely skewed to rotten males with connections to power.
That doesnt mean that every man has got a free pass, but plenty of men (with money) have.
There is generally an agenda to bring equality and accountability to illegal behaviour. Fair enough too.
Some voices are extremist but It doesn't cancel the need for equality

Not just talking about power or illegal behaviour or violence. "Bad" manifests in different ways.

 

[Coburgtiger]

I’m all for debate. You weren’t debating anything just being deliberately provocative. As I said pretty typical of your behaviour on here. You said it early on the thread that it would get ugly. Congratulations.

I was pointing out that you said something dumb. Does everything have to be structured like an Oxford debate? Cause you jumped off that pretty quick.

You got up in arms over this.

Us poor men are sick of not being heard!

When will I, as a straight white male get my soap box?

Here is how you could have responded:

"Ha, look I understand that men have historically had a position of privilege, and to an extent still do, but there are concerns for male health to be wary of too.

The leading cause of death for young Australian men is still suicide. More men and boys are dying because of their poor mental health than for any other reason. Likewise, the average expected life span for a man is significantly younger than for a woman. What's leading to this significant strain on men's mental health?

As much as men have significant advantages in life, something is leading to real and measurable quality of life issues, to the point where it's killing people."

But then again, you could just insult me instead.

And in reality, you're not worried about men's health are you? You're worried about the 'backlash' against feminists because they push too hard.

Or are you really just irritated by women who still point out how hard it is to be a woman? How much of a disadvantage they have in every field. How they are at constant threat of male violence, unwanted advances, and are constantly looking over their shoulders for the next assault.

If men have problems communicating, if we can't open up emotionally, then look to other men to help with that. Don't blame feminists because they're still pushing just to get an even footing.

I mean, you're worried about male communication, and you crack the sads when someone uses sarcasm?

You're not interested in debate. You're interested in whining about feminism and having all the morons agree with you.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

The leading cause of death for young Australian men is still suicide. More men and boys are dying because of their poor mental health than for any other reason. Likewise, the average expected life span for a man is significantly younger than for a woman. What's leading to this significant strain on men's mental health?

Women are actually more prone to mental health problems.

 

[Tigers of Old]

You're not interested in debate.

I'm certainly not interested in discussing anything further with you.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

Depends on your definition of bad I suppose, but I'd have thought from a criminal definition men are much more likely.

Men are much more likely to be convicted of a crime or go to jail, in part because women receive more lenient sentences than men for the same crimes. It's an anachronism that was touched on in the Stack thread - women in Stack's position able to apply for bail where Stack didn't have that option.

 

[Coburgtiger]

I'm certainly not interested in discussing anything further with you.

Exactly

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

But aren't men charged with crimes by Police at a rate of 3 or 4 to 1 when compared with women? I understand there may be a difference in gaol sentences but surely not in being caught in the first place?

Yeah men commit more crimes, full stop. Men are more prone to using force; women more prone to using emotional torment.

But it's a fact documented in various studies that women on the whole are treated more leniently in criminal courts (e.g. https://www.cogdell-law.com/blog/2016/january/study-finds-criminal-courts-more-lenient-on-wome/), with family courts another level again. Doesn't this strike you as odd in these days of supposed equality?

NB I don't spend my days dwelling on such things. I have no axe to grind with women. As with anything else, it's only when people stand on my toes...

In a previous place of employment, the women were given the day off to go to the races on Oaks Day. They came into the office beforehand to get photos taken in their finery, then off they went. There was no equivalent freebie for men. A few blokes got their noses out of joint about it, but it didn't bother me a bit. And I would love to have got a day off to go to the track.

 

[glantone]

I would actually draw a parallel here with the gay marriage debate. I know a few of the old gay activists from the 1970s thought it was a crock because they wanted to be challenging the institution of marriage rather than gain entry to it.

In some ways the way trans rights are being presented is fundamentally conservative. Rather than insisting that they be allowed to identify with whichever gender regardless of which biological sex they were born as, why not challenge the whole edifice of gender politics which posits that men and women have certain social roles based on their biology. Gender is a societal construct and society can construct gender roles differently.

DS

Feminists have been challenging the idea of gender stereotyping based on biology forever. This not a new idea. It is a tenet of feminism. Feminists like Meghan Murphy argue that transgenderism by its nature re installs gender stereotyping - ‘this is how a woman looks, grows her hair, moves, acts etc’ – which from the feminist perspective is the very gender stereotyping they’ve been fighting against for generations and so is a regressive movement rather than a progressive one for women. It might appear new but is actually conservative- just a different type of conservatism. It’s an interesting take worth considering.

A man genitals are not a social construct. The are an evolutionary fact, a physical reality. And this physical fact can not be dismissed as a social idea or construct. So the question remains should women and girls be potentially subjected to seeing male genitals in women only spaces?

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

Feminists have been challenging the idea of gender stereotyping based on biology forever. This not a new idea. It is a tenet of feminism. Feminists like Meghan Murphy argue that transgenderism by its nature re installs gender stereotyping - ‘this is how a woman looks, grows her hair, moves, acts etc’ – which from the feminist perspective is the very gender stereotyping they’ve been fighting against for generations and so is a regressive movement rather than a progressive one for women. It might appear new but is actually conservative- just a different type of conservatism. It’s an interesting take worth considering.

You won't find many conservatives championing either cause.

Bit of a logical paradox for women, eh?

 

[Tigers of Old]

Exactly

Which is basically the same as any other thread you post in case you’ve noticed. I pretty much ignore you entirely on this site. This is an exception.
It’s not what you post, it’s how you post & that’s generally coming off as excruciatingly arrogant & deliberately provocative as I said before.

 

[DavidSSS]

Feminists have been challenging the idea of gender stereotyping based on biology forever. This not a new idea. It is a tenet of feminism. Feminists like Meghan Murphy argue that transgenderism by its nature re installs gender stereotyping - ‘this is how a woman looks, grows her hair, moves, acts etc’ – which from the feminist perspective is the very gender stereotyping they’ve been fighting against for generations and so is a regressive movement rather than a progressive one for women. It might appear new but is actually conservative- just a different type of conservatism. It’s an interesting take worth considering.

A man genitals are not a social construct. The are an evolutionary fact, a physical reality. And this physical fact can not be dismissed as a social idea or construct. So the question remains should women and girls be potentially subjected to seeing male genitals in women only spaces?

Feminism, like just about any movement, has a variety of views, but there certainly are a fair number who are critical of a lot of the trans lobbying precisely because of the gender stereotyping it reinforces.

Conservatives have been at the forefront of championing gender roles, it is why they find the whole trans debate so challenging and just want it to go away. You see it in the attitude of not accepting that people want to identify as something different than the societal gender role their sex is supposed to follow.

DS

 

[Coburgtiger]

Which is basically the same as any other thread you post in case you’ve noticed. I pretty much ignore you entirely on this site. This is an exception.
It’s not what you post, it’s how you post & that’s generally coming off as excruciatingly arrogant & deliberately provocative as I said before.

Easy tiger.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

Conservatives have been at the forefront of championing gender roles, it is why they find the whole trans debate so challenging and just want it to go away. You see it in the attitude of not accepting that people want to identify as something different than the societal gender role their sex is supposed to follow.

Have you heard of David Reimer? Have a read and report back.

 

[tigerdell]

Easy tiger.

My 2 cents worth is that I appreciate and enjoy reading both TigerBurger and Tooheys comments thruout PRE.
So respectfully I,d suggest that both could step back and let our traditional feudsters go at it!

 

[Mr Brightside]

For Lee it always comes back to angry lesbians.

Many years ago I was seeing a lovely young lady , she turned out to be an angry lesbian

 

[AngryAnt]

Many years ago I was seeing a lovely young lady , she turned out to be an angry lesbian

could have been some cause and effect there

 

[Mr Brightside]

could have been some cause and effect there

Yep I probably should have worded it differently.......in both cases

 

[King Kong]

I can't wait for the day I can sit at home watching Ellen whilst my girlfriend has to work 10hr days for a bunch of campaigners and juggle the vicious day to day politics and office snakes all to pay the bills and keep me happy with golf clubs, holidays and the latest Tigers merch so I don't run away with 2/3rds of her net worth.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

Was banned from commenting on the HS site this morning for this (attempted) post on the story 'What a joke!': Fury at Australia Day Honour list (paywalled).

What’s with victims and Australian of the Year? Not saying they shouldn’t be acknowledged, but there must be Australians whose record of service and achievement would command broader appeal.

I have no doubt an angry (but not necessarily lesbian) feminist moderator is responsible for the ban.

They just tend to be very unreasonable people.