Global Warming | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
  • IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.

Global Warming

DavidSSS

Tiger Legend
Dec 11, 2017
10,725
18,384
Melbourne
I was reading the other day that in Death Valley in the USA they have had something like 16 days over 43 in a row and, even worse if you ask me, the minimum temp has been 38. Whoa, how the hell would you get any sleep.

The impact of climate change is here, now, today. Just wait and see if we get a couple of El Ninos in a row, we will cook in this country.

What a mess, decades of warnings and not enough action, that's why we are where we are.

DS
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users

AngryAnt

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
27,179
15,082
Heatwave records broken in China, Italy and a bunch of other places. I see the deniers online saying "yeah cos it's summer duh"
 
Jul 26, 2004
78,642
39,505
www.redbubble.com
I was reading the other day that in Death Valley in the USA they have had something like 16 days over 43 in a row and, even worse if you ask me, the minimum temp has been 38. Whoa, how the hell would you get any sleep.

The impact of climate change is here, now, today. Just wait and see if we get a couple of El Ninos in a row, we will cook in this country.

What a mess, decades of warnings and not enough action, that's why we are where we are.

DS
I'm not looking forward to summer in Australia.
We've already seen what the fires can do in recent years.
There's been a lot of growth..

Boiling frogs..
 

Brodders17

Tiger Legend
Mar 21, 2008
17,837
12,047
Heatwave records broken in China, Italy and a bunch of other places. I see the deniers online saying "yeah cos it's summer duh"
Have you been outside today? its bloody freezing. global warming is clearly a myth.
 
  • Love
Reactions: 1 user

Big Tiger

Tiger Rookie
Jul 15, 2013
242
148
I was reading the other day that in Death Valley in the USA they have had something like 16 days over 43 in a row and, even worse if you ask me, the minimum temp has been 38. Whoa, how the hell would you get any sleep.

The impact of climate change is here, now, today. Just wait and see if we get a couple of El Ninos in a row, we will cook in this country.

What a mess, decades of warnings and not enough action, that's why we are where we are.

DS
If climate change is causing this, I wonder what caused the record 43 consecutive days over 48 degrees more than 100 years ago. Or the 5 consecutive days over 54 degrees a few years before that. Or the actual record temp 110 years ago. It's called weather and its gone up and down for centuries and will continue to do so for centuries more, it's just nowadays we like to blame people for it. If we all live long enough one day the record will be broken and look out for the climate change lovers then.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: 1 user

DavidSSS

Tiger Legend
Dec 11, 2017
10,725
18,384
Melbourne
If climate change is causing this, I wonder what caused the record 43 consecutive days over 48 degrees more than 100 years ago. Or the 5 consecutive days over 54 degrees a few years before that. Or the actual record temp 110 years ago. It's called weather and its gone up and down for centuries and will continue to do so for centuries more, it's just nowadays we like to blame people for it. If we all live long enough one day the record will be broken and look out for the climate change lovers then.

Are you seriously claiming that the climate hasn't changed?

How can you argue that we can alter the chemical composition of the atmosphere and it has no effect? The Greenhouse effect is the very reason this planet is warm enough (but not too warm) to support life. By altering the chemical composition of the atmosphere we enhance the greenhouse effect, it makes a difference.

Heat waves are now more likely, because of climate change, and more likely to break temperature records.

This is precisely what was predicted.

DS
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

RoarEmotion

Tiger Legend
Aug 20, 2005
5,133
6,876
People don't like higher energy prices because it impacts the cost of living and quality of life, but to combat climate change we need higher energy prices - the amount of capital involved is eye-watering. Everything you hear about cheap renewables sort of pretends the cost of capital is free.

Its a political nightmare as plenty of people want green stuff but they don't want their quality of life to suffer to get it and we aren't that good at doing things as a species (and very frequently as individuals) that benefit in 20-30 years time.

Renewable jet fuel costs 4 times as much as fossil fuel jet fuel.
Renewable diesel costs 3 times as much as normal diesel.
Renewable methanol (plant getting built in Bell Bay tasmania) will need 2.5-3 times the price of normal.
(plus there isn't anywhere near enough renewable feed sources to replace the amount of fuel)
Renewable hydrogen in US will be $5-$6/kg and only with the IRA $3/kg kickback does it compete with grey hydrogen at ~$1.5-$2/kg

There is low hanging fruit we need to get after. I just had my ~15 year old home checked for energy efficiency and its a complete mess - heating, cooling, insulation, windows etc. etc.. So much housing stock in victoria built with the cheapest gas prices in the world means horrible energy efficiency with low incentive to make it better. Where price triggers people to work the demand side out of self interest - thats a pretty powerful force. Solar I got will pay for itself in 3 years - amazing.

Our grandkids are going to find out if we kill the planet or not.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users

Baloo

Delisted Free Agent
Nov 8, 2005
44,178
19,050
People don't like higher energy prices because it impacts the cost of living and quality of life, but to combat climate change we need higher energy prices - the amount of capital involved is eye-watering. Everything you hear about cheap renewables sort of pretends the cost of capital is free.

Its a political nightmare as plenty of people want green stuff but they don't want their quality of life to suffer to get it and we aren't that good at doing things as a species (and very frequently as individuals) that benefit in 20-30 years time.

Renewable jet fuel costs 4 times as much as fossil fuel jet fuel.
Renewable diesel costs 3 times as much as normal diesel.
Renewable methanol (plant getting built in Bell Bay tasmania) will need 2.5-3 times the price of normal.
(plus there isn't anywhere near enough renewable feed sources to replace the amount of fuel)
Renewable hydrogen in US will be $5-$6/kg and only with the IRA $3/kg kickback does it compete with grey hydrogen at ~$1.5-$2/kg

There is low hanging fruit we need to get after. I just had my ~15 year old home checked for energy efficiency and its a complete mess - heating, cooling, insulation, windows etc. etc.. So much housing stock in victoria built with the cheapest gas prices in the world means horrible energy efficiency with low incentive to make it better. Where price triggers people to work the demand side out of self interest - thats a pretty powerful force. Solar I got will pay for itself in 3 years - amazing.

Our grandkids are going to find out if we kill the planet or not.
I prefer to think that most people would be willing to forgo a third 65" 4K tv for the kitchen if there wasn't a constant attempt to turn every real serious debate into political point scoring.

These days it seems every issue, talking point or view is a coin toss. Heads on one side, tails on the other. There is no other option unless you really take the time to go looking for it.

Self interest will win if there is a large voice saying you should be focused on self interest.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

RoarEmotion

Tiger Legend
Aug 20, 2005
5,133
6,876
I prefer to think that most people would be willing to forgo a third 65" 4K tv for the kitchen if there wasn't a constant attempt to turn every real serious debate into political point scoring.

These days it seems every issue, talking point or view is a coin toss. Heads on one side, tails on the other. There is no other option unless you really take the time to go looking for it.

Self interest will win if there is a large voice saying you should be focused on self interest.
Its not about a 3rd TV - its about having less stuff, travelling less, having less heating / cooling, less plastic products etc. etc. i.e. against self interest in a consumer type world. even beer has co2 added to it that then goes straight to the atmosphere after being extracted from your friendly natural gas plant
 

Big Tiger

Tiger Rookie
Jul 15, 2013
242
148
If climate change is causing this, I wonder what caused the record 43 consecutive days over 48 degrees more than 100 years ago. Or the 5 consecutive days over 54 degrees a few years before that. Or the actual record temp 110 years ago. It's called weather and its gone up and down for centuries and will continue to do so for centuries more, it's just nowadays we like to blame people for it. If we all live long enough one day the record will be broken and look out for thas supporting your theory climate change is here and look out. Alarmist stuff IMO. I simply pointed out that the heatwave in Death Valley is not something that hasn't been seen before

Are you seriously claiming that the climate hasn't changed?

How can you argue that we can alter the chemical composition of the atmosphere and it has no effect? The Greenhouse effect is the very reason this planet is warm enough (but not too warm) to support life. By altering the chemical composition of the atmosphere we enhance the greenhouse effect, it makes a difference.

Heat waves are now more likely, because of climate change, and more likely to break temperature records.

This is precisely what was predicted.

DS
The climate changes all the time, up and down for all sorts of reasons.

I'm saying that you're using the current heatwave in Death Valley as supporting your view that climate change is here and look out "we will cook in this country". IMO alarmist stuff, with poor supporting evidence, because has it happened before more than 100 years ago, in fact it was worse/higher/longer back then. The same year Death Valley had its hottest day ever they also had their coldest, one can only imagine the carry on if that happened now.

Quite simply, what I was doing was calling you out because you were doing what a lot of people and the media do and that is to use a few hot days, bushfires and the like as evidence of man made climate change when very often facts don't support it, as in your Death Valley example.
 
  • Dislike
  • Haha
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users

tigersnake

Tear 'em apart
Sep 10, 2003
23,777
12,324
People don't like higher energy prices because it impacts the cost of living and quality of life, but to combat climate change we need higher energy prices - the amount of capital involved is eye-watering. Everything you hear about cheap renewables sort of pretends the cost of capital is free.

Its a political nightmare as plenty of people want green stuff but they don't want their quality of life to suffer to get it and we aren't that good at doing things as a species (and very frequently as individuals) that benefit in 20-30 years time.

Renewable jet fuel costs 4 times as much as fossil fuel jet fuel.
Renewable diesel costs 3 times as much as normal diesel.
Renewable methanol (plant getting built in Bell Bay tasmania) will need 2.5-3 times the price of normal.
(plus there isn't anywhere near enough renewable feed sources to replace the amount of fuel)
Renewable hydrogen in US will be $5-$6/kg and only with the IRA $3/kg kickback does it compete with grey hydrogen at ~$1.5-$2/kg

There is low hanging fruit we need to get after. I just had my ~15 year old home checked for energy efficiency and its a complete mess - heating, cooling, insulation, windows etc. etc.. So much housing stock in victoria built with the cheapest gas prices in the world means horrible energy efficiency with low incentive to make it better. Where price triggers people to work the demand side out of self interest - thats a pretty powerful force. Solar I got will pay for itself in 3 years - amazing.

Our grandkids are going to find out if we kill the planet or not.
Yes good post, I second that Emotion.

At the broadest level, after resisting and denying for the last 30 0r 40 years, business and governments have now belatedly been dragged kicking and screaming by undeniable overwhelming evidence that we have a global existential crisis, their solution? Carry on regardless but we'll just use different fuel.

No talk of less cars, smaller houses, less land clearing, less mining. We keep living life as we always have, just drive electric cars, mine battery minerals instead of oil, coal and gas. It won't cut it. We have to use a lot less if we are to tackle this problem. But that elephant in the room won't get addressed for obvious reasons.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users

The Big Richo

Tiger Champion
Aug 19, 2010
3,154
5,024
The home of Dusty
Being in Europe at the moment and seeing what is happening with the temperatures here, you'd have to have rocks in your head not to realise something is amiss.

Forget the summer furphy, we've seen the record for the hottest day on the planet (ie the average temperature across every place on Earth on a given day) broken three times in two weeks.

The frustrating thing for me is things can be done that also solve other problems in the world, like the cost of living. I've recently completed a process of 'greening' my house, removing all gas, and installing additional solar and battery capacity and moving to an electric car.

With the anticipated savings on gas, electricity and petrol costs I'm looking at saving well over 10k a year as a result of these changes, and that will only increase as prices do over time.

Yes, the initial outlay is significant, but if the government really invested in these things and ran them through every home in Australia the price would decrease dramatically and the savings and environmental effect over a long period of time would be enormous. Not to mention the massive boosts in terms of jobs and manufacturing etc.

Such a shame no-one in government at any level seems to have the appetite to take these challenges on.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users

Brodders17

Tiger Legend
Mar 21, 2008
17,837
12,047
The climate changes all the time, up and down for all sorts of reasons.

I'm saying that you're using the current heatwave in Death Valley as supporting your view that climate change is here and look out "we will cook in this country". IMO alarmist stuff, with poor supporting evidence, because has it happened before more than 100 years ago, in fact it was worse/higher/longer back then. The same year Death Valley had its hottest day ever they also had their coldest, one can only imagine the carry on if that happened now.

Quite simply, what I was doing was calling you out because you were doing what a lot of people and the media do and that is to use a few hot days, bushfires and the like as evidence of man made climate change when very often facts don't support it, as in your Death Valley example.
What do you say to the scientists who explain the why and how of climate change?
 

tigersnake

Tear 'em apart
Sep 10, 2003
23,777
12,324
Being in Europe at the moment and seeing what is happening with the temperatures here, you'd have to have rocks in your head not to realise something is amiss.

Forget the summer furphy, we've seen the record for the hottest day on the planet (ie the average temperature across every place on Earth on a given day) broken three times in two weeks.

The frustrating thing for me is things can be done that also solve other problems in the world, like the cost of living. I've recently completed a process of 'greening' my house, removing all gas, and installing additional solar and battery capacity and moving to an electric car.

With the anticipated savings on gas, electricity and petrol costs I'm looking at saving well over 10k a year as a result of these changes, and that will only increase as prices do over time.

Yes, the initial outlay is significant, but if the government really invested in these things and ran them through every home in Australia the price would decrease dramatically and the savings and environmental effect over a long period of time would be enormous. Not to mention the massive boosts in terms of jobs and manufacturing etc.

Such a shame no-one in government at any level seems to have the appetite to take these challenges on.
Mixed bag of a post. I don't think any of this is bad, but a few comments.

Firstly its expensive, if you can afford to do it, great, most people can't. I heard a good quote the other day, 'there is no such thing as a hungry environmentalist'.
Second, things are happening, gas appliances in the home are rapidly on the way out regardless, and will be legislated out. Cheaper, recyclable (I hope yours are) solar panels will become standard.
Re government taking on the challenges, there are undeniable political barriers, the Murdoch denial media, the power of the mining industry and our economic dependence on it, and also the voters. Heaps of people still think its *smile* and/or futile to take action, related to prev media and mining points. Very interesting example of Queensland, recently quadrupled the coal royalty, in one fell swoop, from 2 to 8%, thinking is incentivise the phase out, and use the royalties to transition to renewables, good idea right? The backlash from the Murdoch and the miners has been vicious, brutal. CEO of BHP got up the World Mining Congress in Brisbane a couple of weeks ago and went apeshit, 'we will not invest in QLD!" (Total *smile* BTW, they invest where the mineral deposits are, they find a big copper deposit in Toowoomba next week, they will backpedal faster than Wiley Coyote). But I think there is enough electoral support for it and they are holding the line, and thats good. Point is, that is a very real example of a government 'taking on the challenge'.
 
Last edited:

DavidSSS

Tiger Legend
Dec 11, 2017
10,725
18,384
Melbourne
The thing about the heat in the Northern summer is that it is all of: excessive, of long duration, across North America and Europe. It is not normal, it is not a day out of the ordinary and then goes back to normal. These heat waves are happening more often, ice extent at both ends of the planet are falling etc.

The evidence is overwhelming, the climate is changing, it is getting hotter.

The science is not in doubt, the greenhouse effect is established science, changing the chemical composition of the atmosphere accentuates this.

The question is not whether human activities are the major reason for changes in the climate, the question is whether we will do anything about it.

Change by individuals is fine, we can all do a bit, our solar system is quite old now and too small so looking to expand. But real change has to come at a societal level. It is useless if all of us get solar panels etc but continue to be massive exporters of coal and gas.

DS
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user