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Indigenous History Debate
- Thread starter graystar1
- Start date
History with context for some is another way of saying history with excuses.
Well that's a lazy cop-out. There is a massive difference in knowledge between now and 230 years ago; morality, not so much. But as said earlier, I don't want to do that debate again and drag out pages from comtemporary editions of Britannica.
The people who committed the massacres etc, the state and federal Governments of the day, the people who turn a blind eye to violence in communities because they don't want to be called a racist, the people who were running organisations like ATSIC who stole from their own people, the elders who either enable or accept the spousal and child abuse in communities.
Blaming every Caucasian Australian is just a lazy way of saying "we'll keep it deliberately vague so we don't have to actually do something"
If every Caucasian Australian is collectively guilty then so is every single person on the planet.
Every single Turk is still accountable for what happened to the Armenians.
Every single German is still accountable for what happened to the Jews.
Every single Japanese is still accountable for what happened to the Chinese.
Etc, etc.
Anybody who feels that they are part of this alleged collective guilt can handover all of their belongings as recompense.
That is what is happening.
It may not be happening at a speed that you deem acceptable but it is happening.
Governments are institutions that continue beyond the transient caretakers. The State and Federal Governments that committed those massacres are still here today.
So it's those Federal & State Governments that need to make amends for their actions in the past.
As they are.
Again maybe it's not happening at a speed you deem acceptable but it's happening.
So you've said, twice.
All I see is tokenism really. The governments aren't really keen on addressing it seriously.
*smile*, it wasn't that long ago that our Federal Government refused to even apologise for what happened to the indigenous people. When Rudd came to power in 2008 and made the formal apology, 6 opposition MPs walked out. Dutton, who is still wielding significant power, was the only politician who abstained from the apology.
But you think it's happening, is the speed acceptable for you?
Well I look at it this way.
Given the origin of this discussion - one Mr, Sydney Stack.
If we'd have had COVID back in the 90's in WA and Syd had done then what he has done now then he wouldn't be in gaol. He'd be in hospital if he was lucky enough to make it there.
The weeding out of, Police Officers who would have handed out the flogging, the Senior Officers who would have turned a blind eye, the Magistrate who to whom it would have been perfectly obvious that there'd been a flogging handed out all took a lot of time and a lot of changes.
So there's been major change across the board.
Is it happening quick enough?
For those in remote communities certainly not but you have to remember that an entire industry has risen up and a lot of time is taken up with people who don't live in remote communities, never have and never will and they tend to be noisier. These people live in the cities, are quite comfortable and have access to all the same sort of services that you and I have.
Unfortunately the squeaky wheel gets the grease even though it may not need it.
As for Rudd's apology I was living in Meeka at the time and the locals thought it was hilarious, a completely meaningless waste of time that meant nothing to them.
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Sorry, I missed the bit where you answered whether these changes are of an acceptable speed for you or not.
Then you're obviously not reading what i post.
If you missed "For those in remote communities certainly not" then what's the point in this exchange?
You request answers and when you get them you deny you've got them.
It's like trying to have a conversation with a pigeon.
Gotcha. So in summary, if they're not in remote communities then they are fine. Instead of getting beaten up for minor infringements they are just thrown in jail instead.
Actually, they get too much attention and time thus preventing more being done for those in the remote communities.
There are none so blind as those who will not see.
You believe that the most vulnerable Aboriginal Australians should be chucked to the kerb.
Nice.
Your beliefs are very similar to those of a bloke whose surname was Hitler.
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Actually it’s the “things were different in those days” which is a lazy cop-out.
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Honestly the people of Australia have made many, many attempts to redress aboriginal disadvantage. Land rights, native title, financial benefits, affirmative action and an apology. Nothing has changed and the gap is widening. Is more of the same going to improve things?
No the same problems will persist because they want live differently to mainstream Australia. Their culture is what they value but it will not help them achieve the outcomes the Australian government values. The problem is intractable but continual attempts to appease what happened years ago is simply divisive and helps no-one.
No the same problems will persist because they want live differently to mainstream Australia. Their culture is what they value but it will not help them achieve the outcomes the Australian government values. The problem is intractable but continual attempts to appease what happened years ago is simply divisive and helps no-one.
Australia needs to provide the most disadvantaged, those living in remote communities, the opportunity to progress and spend less time on worrying about the whining of those who live in locations where Australia already provides enough resources for all.
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You "expect"?
Take a long hard look at yourself in the mirror and then give yourself an uppercut.
No one on the entire planet cares about what you "expect"
If you feel so much guilt about what has happened in the past feel free to hand over everything you own as recompense.
"resident right wing supposed libertarian"Always with the labels; based on your own bigotry.
Aah, playing the guilt card I see.
Guilt is a very devious way of deflecting responsibility.
The only ones who talk at all about guilt are the same mob who label anything remotely pro-aboriginal as black armband. The whole debate over whether we should feel guilt over aboriginal dispossession was introduced by, and is constantly promoted by, the right.
Guilt is a straw man pure and simple, a straw man designed to deflect debate away from the real issues.
We should be talking about a treaty, always remember reconciliation was introduced because the powers that be refused a treaty.
We should be talking about the Uluru Statement but it has been summarily dismissed.
We need to take responsibility for that which we benefit from.
Instead, those who wish to continue the marginalisation of Aboriginal Australia want to deflect the debate to whether we should feel guilt. In doing so they hope to deflect from the real issues and guarantee no progress. Continue this deflection if you like but you just remain part of the problem.
DS
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Not "expecting" anything now?
Give yourself another uppercut.
You're the worst sort of bigot.
You want the disadvantage to continue
Nah. The "progressive" movement is defined by intellectual hubris. You lot believe your politics reflect a higher consciousness than man has previously experienced. It's just a case of whether you're prepared to admit it.
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