#lolNorf | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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#lolNorf

The Big Richo

Tiger Superstar
Aug 19, 2010
1,696
2,788
The home of Dusty
Really dislike the ways guys like Polec are treated by the general public, largely I suspect out of sheer jealousy.

He was a more than decent player who accepted a good deal from a team that needed him, and played good footy when he got there.

I'm sure if he had known he was going to have four coaches in the next four seasons he might have thought twice about going, and I'm sure he has had a pretty difficult ride for the past couple of years. Beyond me why anyone thinks he deserves to be mocked for that.

This is the problem with the minimum TPP. It’s the only possible outcome - north’s playing list should be getting paid 70% or less than others.

Do you think any industry would accept workers doing the same job for the same employer, with equal levels of experience and aptitudes, being paid 30% less because of the location they worked at?
 
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Born_a_Tiger78

Tiger Rookie
Jul 16, 2008
317
212
Do you think any industry would accept workers doing the same job for the same employer, with equal levels of experience and aptitudes, being paid 30% less because of the location they worked at?
Yes.

Construction - many companies (employers) have multiple entities, and pay like for like employees different rates depending on the sites they work on or at.

And, I can't think of any other industry where a company/entity is required to pay a "total minimum salary" for their key workforce regardless of performance.
 
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DavidSSS

Tiger Legend
Dec 11, 2017
9,036
14,064
Melbourne
Do you think any industry would accept workers doing the same job for the same employer, with equal levels of experience and aptitudes, being paid 30% less because of the location they worked at?

Yep, its called enterprise bargaining which threw out the notion of equal pay for equal work. Then they banned pattern bargaining which is where the unions try and negotiate the same pay rates for people doing the same jobs at different employers.

Equal pay for equal work is such a 20th century concept, next you will want women to be paid the same as men, come on, you can do neo-liberalism and greed is good better than that.

But back on topic. It would be interesting to see what would happen if they relaxed the minimum TPP with the ability to pay more later. As it stands teams who are trying to build with young players end up paying them too much when they aren't yet proven performers, but if they all turn out to be stars they can't keep them all later. I wouldn't remove the minimum but maybe a bit more leeway so clubs can build a promising young list with the promise of big payments for those who do end up being the core of a team contending for the flag.

DS
 
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RoarEmotion

Tiger Champion
Aug 20, 2005
3,129
3,539
Do you think any industry would accept workers doing the same job for the same employer, with equal levels of experience and aptitudes, being paid 30% less because of the location they worked at?

Professional sportspeople get paid on outcomes typically. The minimum TPP distorts this materially. It’s not about where they are working, it’s about their output. Not sure we are arguing the same thing. What I have interpreted is that You are basically arguing that performance is irrelevant and all full forwards in AFL get paid the same. It’s nonsense to me. For early career players I think is typically a fixed amount which makes sense as their output is not yet known.

The employer I worked at discriminated on outcomes and had even worked with the unionised part of the workforce to have 5% of their pay be merit based - some would get zero and some would get 10%. And the ones getting 10% were contributing way more than 100/90ths of what the others were.

One of the downsides of ‘equal pay for equal work’ / unionism is the ‘equal work’ bit. It’s a good slogan but it isn’t what really happens in most workplaces. Some people just care about their jobs more than others and do it better - shouldn’t they get paid more for that?

On a micro sense Maybe you could argue that Polec gets paid more because he is at a club that sucks at the moment and has to put up with that. Dusty may get paid similar to him because although he offers way more output on field, he gets to enjoy success and being at a big club and that is another form of compensation.
 

year of the tiger

Tiger Legend
Mar 26, 2008
8,829
5,040
Tasmania
Professional sportspeople get paid on outcomes typically. The minimum TPP distorts this materially. It’s not about where they are working, it’s about their output. Not sure we are arguing the same thing. What I have interpreted is that You are basically arguing that performance is irrelevant and all full forwards in AFL get paid the same. It’s nonsense to me. For early career players I think is typically a fixed amount which makes sense as their output is not yet known.

The employer I worked at discriminated on outcomes and had even worked with the unionised part of the workforce to have 5% of their pay be merit based - some would get zero and some would get 10%. And the ones getting 10% were contributing way more than 100/90ths of what the others were.

One of the downsides of ‘equal pay for equal work’ / unionism is the ‘equal work’ bit. It’s a good slogan but it isn’t what really happens in most workplaces. Some people just care about their jobs more than others and do it better - shouldn’t they get paid more for that?

On a micro sense Maybe you could argue that Polec gets paid more because he is at a club that sucks at the moment and has to put up with that. Dusty may get paid similar to him because although he offers way more output on field, he gets to enjoy success and being at a big club and that is another form of compensation.

I thought unions argued for equal minimum pay to stop workers getting ripped off. If you have a high performing worker, there is nothing wrong with an employer paying them more, but some rarely do as their focus is keeping wages down.

Equal pay / equal work is about minimum pay, ot maximum pay.

I agree that you can’t compare the real world to the Footy or sports world - it just doesn‘t work.
 
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eZyT

Tiger Legend
Jun 28, 2019
19,203
20,232
Do you think any industry would accept workers doing the same job for the same employer, with equal levels of experience and aptitudes, being paid 30% less because of the location they worked at?

I get the industrial relations argument, but I think the TPP is undermining equalisation.

Especially as we enter a new era of cap space trading.

Without the TPP, i dont think GC (12th) need to hand Geelong (1st) pick 7.

A long term under performing side like GC, whose recent big fish are ben long and tom berry, should be able to pay less for a bunch of inferior footballers than Richmond, who land tarranto and hopper. Then they could bank cash and have cap room to attract talent, therby equalising? Surely Touk Miller isnt going to picket metricon and demand Dustys money (im a fan of touk)?
 
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Tenacious

Tiger Legend
May 19, 2008
5,439
3,444
Yes.

Construction - many companies (employers) have multiple entities, and pay like for like employees different rates depending on the sites they work on or at.

And, I can't think of any other industry where a company/entity is required to pay a "total minimum salary" for their key workforce regardless of performance.

A requirement to pay “total minimum salary" is not standard industry practice.
Then again standard industry practice does not involve a salary cap.
Presumably every sporting “industry” that - for very good reasons - are regulated with a salary cap operate in this way.

Note: the AFL has its 5% variation - I don’t know how common that is elsewhere
 

spook

Tiger Legend
Jun 18, 2007
19,358
19,841
Melbourne
Do you think any industry would accept workers doing the same job for the same employer, with equal levels of experience and aptitudes, being paid 30% less because of the location they worked at?
The Golden State Warriors pay their players a combined $US193 million. The San Antonio Spurs pay theirs $US96 million.
 
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Scoop

Tiger Legend
Dec 8, 2004
23,081
9,705
Is there a minimum wage in basketball?
For players? There is a scale.

For teams, the salary cap is complex here's the best explanation below. The easy explanation is you can pay $123 million but can go over with exemptions, if you go over $150 million you pay the luxury tax that goes up on a sliding scale.

https://boardroom.tv/nba-salary-cap-2022-23-details/

Yeah I think so, like a rookie contract. But someone like @Scoop would know better.
Full rookie deals kick in about 900k to 1M. Goes higher the higher you were picked. Rookie sliding scale.

Two-way contracts between the NBA team and the G- Leauge (think AFL and VFL) top out at about 450-500k but are normally around 300k.

They split time, this is a good example of Jack White with Denver form SEN

"Under the two-way contract structure, White will spend most of his time with the Nuggets’ G League affiliate the Grand Rapids Gold while spending up to 45 days with the NBA team.

White is set to earn $502,000 (USD) with the deal and can play up to 50 regular season games for the Nuggets in the 2022/23 season."


Reckon that number for Jack is off but the structure is spot on.
 
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tigertim

something funny is written here
Mar 6, 2004
27,795
8,621
I imagine Polec is going to be the best paid SANFL player in 2023. Although he seems the type St Kilda love to get….
Seems Polec hadn’t even bothered to back to a state league, he’s gone to suburban footy with Yarraville/Seddon.