tigerman said:Shawry.
I know that I'm not going to change your political persuasion, but i just can't help myself. ;D
The Howard government may being do ok with the economy. Although mortgagees are now paying $350 a month more on their interest rate payments due to house prices, than they were when interest rates were 17%.
It's industrial relations strategy is not good for the working class. Over 30% of the work force is now made up of part time and casual workers, almost doubling under a Howard goverment.
Labour hire companys have thrived under the Howard government, and are a blight on the country.
Of those part time and casual workers over 40% of them when surveyed said that they would like to work more hours.
How are young people ever going to fulfil the great Australian dream of owning your own home.
The number of home owners has has fallen nearly 10% in the last decade.
John Howard, in some peoples eyes, may of done a good job in keeping the illegal arrivals from coming to this great country, I'm hoping that they think that he has failed them in most other areas.
Jeepers I can't wait until footy season.
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IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.
Preferred Opposition Leader
- Thread starter CanbTiger
- Start date
Well done to Latham.
I heard him on AM this morning and actually started supporting him, despite my earlier post ;D.
Still, the hurt from his sledging of Wayne Swan and others in the Crean- Beazley stand-off must linger. It cannot be denied there are significant divisions within the party as a result of his confrontational style.
If we're to have a true opposition in this country rather than a pack of squabblers, the bloke needs to place the cap in hand and go apologise to those Labor party colleagues he once publicly abused.
I heard him on AM this morning and actually started supporting him, despite my earlier post ;D.
Still, the hurt from his sledging of Wayne Swan and others in the Crean- Beazley stand-off must linger. It cannot be denied there are significant divisions within the party as a result of his confrontational style.
If we're to have a true opposition in this country rather than a pack of squabblers, the bloke needs to place the cap in hand and go apologise to those Labor party colleagues he once publicly abused.
jake_the_lad said:
Too true JTL. I fear that by the time I have kids, there will be no affordable opportunities left for them. What is the good of low interest rates if you need a second mortage to pay for a decent education, and a third to gain access to quality healthcare
Go Mark 8)
RFC4eva said:
Hear Hear
I'm not affiliated with Labor as I've always lived in safe seats and my voting policy is to put sitting members last.
Still, I'd love to see a genuine opposition in this country that can really challenge the govt on some topical issues and put forward real alternatives.
I hate that the Labor party has been so concerned with squabbling these past few years at the expense of developing and publicising a strong platform for which it stands.
RFC4eva said:
I thought that both Kim and Mark spoke very well.
It's a savage beast the Laber party. Mark has a truly working class backround if he can always remember where he's come from he'll be a good alternative for the the Australian electors, if his colleagues get behind him.
tigerman said:Shawry.
I know that I'm not going to change your political persuasion, but i just can't help myself. ;D
The Howard government may being do ok with the economy. Although mortgagees are now paying $350 a month more on their interest rate payments due to house prices, than they were when interest rates were 17%.
It's industrial relations strategy is not good for the working class. Over 30% of the work force is now made up of part time and casual workers, almost doubling under a Howard goverment.
Labour hire companys have thrived under the Howard government, and are a blight on the country.
Of those part time and casual workers over 40% of them when surveyed said that they would like to work more hours.
How are young people ever going to fulfil the great Australian dream of owning your own home.
The number of home owners has has fallen nearly 10% in the last decade.
John Howard, in some peoples eyes, may of done a good job in keeping the illegal arrivals from coming to this great country, I'm hoping that they think that he has failed them in most other areas.
Jeepers I can't wait until footy season.
OK i'll try to cover everything I said before that didnt show up due to some timeout error.
In regards to monetary value of interest rate payments. You cannot compare the actual amounts as this is not a good indication. The time of value of money suggests they will not be even as the $350 extra would probably buy you the same equivalent of what you would back then. People are earning more as an average wage which must be taken into account if you are going to compare apples with cows which is what you are doing. The two amounts cannot be compared as the time value of money says that a dollar in teh past would get you a lot more than it would in the present.
The interest rate itself is the best way of showing this (which incidently is much lower as I am sure you know) and also inflation and average wages should be taken into account.
In regards to the workforce, i think the number of casual and part time workers is a good thing. IF they were all to be full time they could not possibly be accomodated. Half would be unemployed and the others better off. At least the yare all employed and earning a decent living. It gives people in general a better self-esteem knowing they are employed, should coincidentally reduce crime because of the greater self esteem and ability to be self sufficienta dn enables them to buy things without sponging off the govt, adn eases the govt's burden on dole payments meaning the money can be better spent elsewhere. Yes people may want to work more, but if it is not possible surely having some employment and form of income is better than a higher possibility of having none.
Owning a home is not impossible. I did it 2 1/2 years ago with the help of a mortgage. 6 years ago I was a struggling uni student whose sole source of income was income as a pizza delivery driver where I had to pay car expenses myself. I would get paid every Friday and wit hliving expenses everything was gone by Tuesday. I struggled but I made something of myself and saved and gave myself teh position of being able to buy a house. Too many people waste money on crap they dont need (and I am guilty of that aswell).
People can do whatever they want if the yreally want it and strive for it. People make their own decisions adn should be responsible for them. Housing is not out of reach if you wish to live in the right places and save enough adn are disciplined with money. Teh govt cannot be blamed for this they have introduced schemes to help people such as the home owners grants which herlped me out.
It is worse in Melbourne than Adelaide, but people do have a choice.
Ia gree with Howard on the boatpeople not being allowed access to Australia illegally. I ahev no problem with them coming in through the correct channels, but to come in illegally is wrong . They have the option of doing it the other way but choose to do it illegally. I dont agree with detentioning them, but I believe it is better than jsut allowing them to settle here adn encouraging more and more people to do it.
I do agree however education is becoming ridiculously pricey, adn that needs to be looked at as all people should have access to education, not jsut the rich otherwise people like myself would never have been able to get to uni to set themselves up like I ahve, and also in regards to public transport I think that ti should be cheaper and more readily available t oencourage people to use it.
Overall I think the Liberal govt has done a great job. John HJoward is not a yes man, he makes the correct decisions because they are jsut that, he does not bow to popular demand, adn he makes the right decisions for the country rather than to ahve a seat in Parliament. For that he has my utmost respect.
He sent our troops to Iraq despite popular opinion,adn I agree with his decision. USA is an ally and saddam Hussein is an evil dictator who treated people like *smile*. He needed to be disposed of for human rights purposes andwe needed to back the USA as they would us should an Indonesian attack occur.
People only ever worryabout what happens to them, but htere is a bigger picture, overall he has done a good job. People are never happy anyway. I doubt Labour with their conservative views would ahve done a better job.
Shawry.
I can't agree with you when you say that the "number of part time and casual workers is a good thing."
It might be a good thing for the small % that are happy with the arrangement, but a large % want to be able to work more hours.
We will end up like America where you get paid $5 an hour and have to survive on tips to live. And have to work at a company for a few years before you are entitled to 2 weeks holidays a year. (Thats not having a go at your American heritage either ;D)
Companies are no longer employing full time employees, and more importantly apprentices, because they are using part time labour hire people to do the job. Where the employee is not entitled to sick pay, and gets no holidays let alone holiday pay. How are they ever going to buy a house.
We are being told that we should work until we are 70, because there is a shortage of skilled people.
It's the so called lucky country and we still have to get skilled people from overseas, when unemployment is still fairly high. Even though they have changed how the unemployment figures are tallied. If you work 1 hour (i'm not sure if its a week or a month) you are deemed to be employed and are not included in the unemployed figures.
I could go on but perhaps it's best that I dont.
Bring on the footy season, and CARN THE TIGES!!!!
I can't agree with you when you say that the "number of part time and casual workers is a good thing."
It might be a good thing for the small % that are happy with the arrangement, but a large % want to be able to work more hours.
We will end up like America where you get paid $5 an hour and have to survive on tips to live. And have to work at a company for a few years before you are entitled to 2 weeks holidays a year. (Thats not having a go at your American heritage either ;D)
Companies are no longer employing full time employees, and more importantly apprentices, because they are using part time labour hire people to do the job. Where the employee is not entitled to sick pay, and gets no holidays let alone holiday pay. How are they ever going to buy a house.
We are being told that we should work until we are 70, because there is a shortage of skilled people.
It's the so called lucky country and we still have to get skilled people from overseas, when unemployment is still fairly high. Even though they have changed how the unemployment figures are tallied. If you work 1 hour (i'm not sure if its a week or a month) you are deemed to be employed and are not included in the unemployed figures.
I could go on but perhaps it's best that I dont.
Bring on the footy season, and CARN THE TIGES!!!!
Tigerman: Yes I do agree with hwat oyu say although I still believe most of htemare better off than they would be if the positions were made full time as there would be no jobs for them.
Yes maybe some of the people who come from overseas to fill the jobs may have to be shipped out and I am all for an Australian worker (should they be able to fulfill it properly with appropriate motivation) getting the positions first should they wish, but I still maintain being employed in some capacity is better than not having any at all.
If yo uare good enough at what you do adn do it properly I am sure further opportunities will present themselves.
Yes maybe some of the people who come from overseas to fill the jobs may have to be shipped out and I am all for an Australian worker (should they be able to fulfill it properly with appropriate motivation) getting the positions first should they wish, but I still maintain being employed in some capacity is better than not having any at all.
If yo uare good enough at what you do adn do it properly I am sure further opportunities will present themselves.
Well There is one thing Latham can promise if he becomes Prime minister and that is to pull Cabbies into line I'm sure he will pass legislation that If you feel that you have been hard done by on the fare, you can give them a Ruddy good Thrashing! ;D
But that is all behind him now isn't it?? ??? ???
I'm sure he will pass legislation that If you feel that you have been hard done by on the fare, you can give them a Ruddy good Thrashing! ;D But that is all behind him now isn't it?? ??? ???
If anyone tells my father about this thread, I will personally come down from the Gold Coast and throttle them.
julzqld said:
;D ;D julzqld
I remember when Gough Whitlam got thrown out of government.
My dad was ropeable, and would be still in jail now if Malcolm Fraser or John Kerr had of come any where near him. ;D
I was a young bloke then, going out and having a good time.
Dad was ranting and raving and I remember saying to him to him, what are you getting so worked up about.
Look at me now, talk about a chip off the block. :'(
My father in law ranted and raved about Gough.
Blamed him for chopping his toe off. If Gough hadn't brought in daylight savings Jack wouldn't have been out cutting the grass at that time of night when it happened.
Makes sense.
P.S. Julz. Glad you warned me about the throttling in time. it was on the tip of my tongue to tell your Dad about this thread.
Blamed him for chopping his toe off. If Gough hadn't brought in daylight savings Jack wouldn't have been out cutting the grass at that time of night when it happened.
Makes sense.
P.S. Julz. Glad you warned me about the throttling in time. it was on the tip of my tongue to tell your Dad about this thread.
shawry,
Thanks for the taking the time to give your reasons for supporting the Howard Govt. I think it was RFC4eva that said there should be more public discussion of political issues in this nation and I totally agree.
The following is my response to some issues you raise. It is not expected to convert anyone, but does provide my two cent’s worth.
OPPORTUNITY TO SUCCEED
You mention a couple of times we all have the opportunity to succeed in life through hard work and ambition. I disagree.
I feel there are people in this country that through circumstances beyond their control are disadvantaged and cannot obtain the things you and I feel are within their grasp.
At my high school were individuals that were primary bread-winners for their family. One of my class-mates worked nights as a cleaner and dish-washer and had to take two days off school each week to work as a fast-food operator to support his disabled mother and two siblings.
As a consequence, he did not have sufficient marks to enter uni and would not have had adequate funds to pay for uni textbooks even had he got in. Further, he could not re-locate to attend uni as his mother would need to have been institutionalised and his siblings placed in foster care.
Other examples of people disadvantaged in life may include women, disabled people and individuals from minority groups. Certainly, there is a lot of literature that argues to this effect.
ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS
You mentioned your support for the Government’s stance on “illegal immigrants”.
Firstly, I don’t agree with using the term “illegal immigrants” to describe asylum seekers.
Former Immigration Minister Ruddock adopted the term “illegal” on the basis the people arriving on our shores were “queue jumpers” that had evaded the lawful processing of refugees by jumping into leaky boats to enter this nation.
Rubbish.
Australia has a certain quota of refugee spots that it fills from refugee camps throughout the world. There is no “queue”.
Individuals that flee their nation and arrive on our shores do not “jump” in front of anyone. Rather, if they are refugees, they rightfully occupy one of the refugee places that Australia offers.
Former Minister Ruddock and the Federal Government suggest the people arriving on our shores are not genuine refugees, but economic migrants.
In the vast majority of cases, I consider this to be more rubbish.
By all accounts these people arrive from such countries as Iraq, Afghanistan and Iran. Not long ago, the people of Iraq were victims of a brutal regime that had to be eradicated.
The Government, in the interests of human rights (allegedly), deployed troops to assist the US depose Saddam and free the people of Iraq. Yet, at the same time they were abusing Iraqis fleeing the same regime that arrived on our shores!!
Further abuse was directed at Afghanis arriving on our shores despite the stories of public stonings/ hangings in that country and the fact women could leave their house just 3 times in their life (one of which was when they were a corpse).
IMO, the Government’s position on asylum seekers, in light of its involvement in Iraq and subsequent explanation for that invasion, is the height of hypocrisy. I am disgusted the Federal Opposition has been relatively complacent on this issue.
I hope this position changes under Latham. The “children overboard” issue was a disgrace.
Thanks for the taking the time to give your reasons for supporting the Howard Govt. I think it was RFC4eva that said there should be more public discussion of political issues in this nation and I totally agree.
The following is my response to some issues you raise. It is not expected to convert anyone, but does provide my two cent’s worth.
OPPORTUNITY TO SUCCEED
You mention a couple of times we all have the opportunity to succeed in life through hard work and ambition. I disagree.
I feel there are people in this country that through circumstances beyond their control are disadvantaged and cannot obtain the things you and I feel are within their grasp.
At my high school were individuals that were primary bread-winners for their family. One of my class-mates worked nights as a cleaner and dish-washer and had to take two days off school each week to work as a fast-food operator to support his disabled mother and two siblings.
As a consequence, he did not have sufficient marks to enter uni and would not have had adequate funds to pay for uni textbooks even had he got in. Further, he could not re-locate to attend uni as his mother would need to have been institutionalised and his siblings placed in foster care.
Other examples of people disadvantaged in life may include women, disabled people and individuals from minority groups. Certainly, there is a lot of literature that argues to this effect.
ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS
You mentioned your support for the Government’s stance on “illegal immigrants”.
Firstly, I don’t agree with using the term “illegal immigrants” to describe asylum seekers.
Former Immigration Minister Ruddock adopted the term “illegal” on the basis the people arriving on our shores were “queue jumpers” that had evaded the lawful processing of refugees by jumping into leaky boats to enter this nation.
Rubbish.
Australia has a certain quota of refugee spots that it fills from refugee camps throughout the world. There is no “queue”.
Individuals that flee their nation and arrive on our shores do not “jump” in front of anyone. Rather, if they are refugees, they rightfully occupy one of the refugee places that Australia offers.
Former Minister Ruddock and the Federal Government suggest the people arriving on our shores are not genuine refugees, but economic migrants.
In the vast majority of cases, I consider this to be more rubbish.
By all accounts these people arrive from such countries as Iraq, Afghanistan and Iran. Not long ago, the people of Iraq were victims of a brutal regime that had to be eradicated.
The Government, in the interests of human rights (allegedly), deployed troops to assist the US depose Saddam and free the people of Iraq. Yet, at the same time they were abusing Iraqis fleeing the same regime that arrived on our shores!!
Further abuse was directed at Afghanis arriving on our shores despite the stories of public stonings/ hangings in that country and the fact women could leave their house just 3 times in their life (one of which was when they were a corpse).
IMO, the Government’s position on asylum seekers, in light of its involvement in Iraq and subsequent explanation for that invasion, is the height of hypocrisy. I am disgusted the Federal Opposition has been relatively complacent on this issue.
I hope this position changes under Latham. The “children overboard” issue was a disgrace.
Latham's emphasis on affordable education is fantastic. Reading some of his past speeches re: the knowledge society, Latham clearly believes that making education available to all, is the only way to ensure the economic future of the country, and the future well-being of citizens.
( There is an interesting article in Arena magazine; vol: 42, August-September, 1999)
Mark for PM...........Gough for President ;D 8)
( There is an interesting article in Arena magazine; vol: 42, August-September, 1999)
Mark for PM...........Gough for President ;D 8)
Interesting article in the Sunday mail about the mistreatment of illegal immigrants at Woomera. There's a new book out "Beyond the Razor Wire" written by Sandy Thorne who spent 2 years working at Woomera and Curtin (WA). In the book she mentions that living conditions aren't as bad as claimed. There is reverse cycle-aircon, full time recreation officers who devise entertainment, dvd players and dvds (which on many occasions are deliberately destroyed). Detainees were permitted free phone calls daily which meant they could speak to relatives anywhere in the world for six minutes. She says the Muslim men were the most violent and difficult to deal with and were extremely demanding and readily resorted to violence over what they perceived as slights to their manhood. A lot of fights would happen in the medical centre because women and children were treated first. Guards have been injured by starpickets, shards of glass and stones. One guard nearly had his testicles torn off by one detainee. Guards have had mental breakdowns because of the stress of the job. One female guard had a knife held to her throat and a week later another detainee poured scalding curry over her.
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What A Crock!!
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Danny Green:
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