antman said:
IIRC, universal booing at a game actually became a ritual from the mid 80s rather than earlier decades.
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IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.
Re: Adam Goodes
- Thread starter iLoVeNeWmAn
- Start date
IIRC, universal booing at a game actually became a ritual from the mid 80s rather than earlier decades.
antman said:
I've always respected Glenn James who still remains to be the one and only indigenous umpire in VFL/AFL. I also used to hear a lot of racial abuse against indigenous and European players as a kid around those smaller ovals (Princes Park and Victoria Park the worst) along with fights.
Happy not to boo Goodes and I never have yet.
But if we play the Swans in the finals and he stages for a free and gets it, I will be booing at the top of my lungs. But that will be at the umpires otherwise I will be considered a racist right?
If Goodes has a set shot at goal in a close match against us and misses and I cheer is that also considered racist?
But if we play the Swans in the finals and he stages for a free and gets it, I will be booing at the top of my lungs. But that will be at the umpires otherwise I will be considered a racist right?
If Goodes has a set shot at goal in a close match against us and misses and I cheer is that also considered racist?
I don't really need to if it claims that life was better for humans before the division of labour. What nonsense.K3 said:
http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/this_is_what_reconciliation_could_ultimately_deliver/
Bolta afraid of secession. I actually think this would be a great outcome, and we shouldn't just limit this to indigenous peoples.
Bolta afraid of secession. I actually think this would be a great outcome, and we shouldn't just limit this to indigenous peoples.
K3 said:
That for mine is where PC steps over the line and fails a common sense test. If an opposition player does something on the field that you as a supporter don't like you must sit there and not boo as their should be no double standards out on the field as we all believe in a level playing field right?
antman said:
No one should racially slur anyone.
I would like to be able to boo anyone in an opposition jumper who does something on the field I don't like without being labelled a racist. I would like to be able to be critical of anyone based on their actions regardless of their race. In Adams case its only his on field actions I dislike.
I would like it if the the nation found the living conditions of many indigenous communities as big an issue as this saga. Forget history, there are many indigenous people living in third world conditions in this country right now.
Why is booing adam getting people beating their chest, when the real issues are ignored? As long as you don't here racism at the footy everything is OK?
ninjahaha said:
Thanks Ninja.
I guess my point in bringing up the "bad old days" of racism at the footy (also directed at Italian/Greek/other players) was to make that point that football has never really been the inclusive nirvana that some on this thread claim it was. So we can't return to the days of innocence because they never really existed.
Good on you for understanding the issues that indigenous Australians face in this area. And I wouldn't suggest we only focus on Goodes and forget about the more important issues either.
On the football field issues, if you read back in this thread (God help you if you do) you'll see that early on in the debate I also stated a dislike of Goodes on field tactics ... I was never a big fan of booing generally but admit have booed Carlton, Essendon and umpires in recent years. I've never booed Goodes at a ground that I recall but admit that I have booed him while watching TV :hihi
Someone earlier in this thread said "no-one has changed their mind on this issue" - well I have.
I changed my stance on this when I realised that many who did boo were being racist - not all, but many. And that many who boo, and claim they are not racist also are those who tend to belittle indigenous Australians and their situation - note again I said not all, but many. And some would claim that NONE of those who boo are racist - are they being naive, or merely disingenuous? Surely any rational person in this debate would have to concede that SOME of those who boo are racist - and use the other booing as cover. Would you agree?
Like it or not though Goodes was AOTY and is still a high profile spokesperson for aboriginal/torres straight Islander peoples. I take it from your other statements that you would agree with most of his attitudes expressed off the field - that we need reconciliation, that racism is bad, and indigenous people are still discriminated against and their material situation is far worse that most other Australians. So I'm glad you support the cause more generally, even if not on this issue. But for me you can't separate them.
Anyway like most of us I'm getting tired of this debate - sorry to keep banging on.
antman said:
I am extremely upset at the at the divide between indigenous australians and the rest of australia. It is a disgrace the conditions we allow people to live in in this country.
This is not history, the nation is all but ignoring the effect that 200 years of "australia" has had on the indigenous people.
There is no easy solution, but we need to make a concerted effort to begin real and effective change.
Thats the real issue as I see it.
The footy/boo/Goodes debate is relatively trivial in my eyes. Wether racist boo is not as big an issue as acting in racist ways, i.e. excluding people, denying jobs, not willing to help change attitudes towards other peoples cultures.
I agree many who have joined the booing are doing so as camouflage. But there are many who are not happy with the way he plays his footy or that he doesn't have the right jumper on. I would love him if he was a tiger no doubt.
It gets my goat that people think that by being concerned for Adam that they are Just and Good. Also that they imply they can judge another as racist because they boo. If the energy went into helping those who need it most then this saga will be worth it.
But my gut feel is it will all end with the booing stopping or Adam retiring.
How about those who want to be able to boo without fear, donate $50 to a real indigenous cause that will make a real difference. They get a cap that shows they care enough to contribute to change.
You don't have a cap n boo, then we assume they are racist and are ejected or tarred n feathered or something. Flippant I know. Im not serious.
But I did get very worked up at the PC brigade, the AFL the media and Polies lining up to declare footy fans as racist. Maybe a little more recognition that some are legit and some racists are hiding in it would have kept me a little calmer.
Thanks for the chat. Hopefully the Boo's start people on a path of real change and the PC outrage leads to tangible action rather than judgement.
ninjahaha said:
I couldn't agree more Sensei. There are those that refuse to see past some of Goodes behaviour at the issues that he and others are trying to highlight. They are unintetionally, I hope, justifying the behaviour of bogans by claiming that Goodes "brought it on himself" and is "creating a divide". But Goodes and all Indigenous Aussies and those that have copped racist abuseand discrimination, live the divide, they sure as hell didn't create it. My hope is that all this will help the scales fall from their eyes, so to speak.
Good article in the courier mail today from an aboriginal leader on the Goodies issue explaining the issue more fully:
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/opinion/goodes-furore-has-uncovered-a-racial-divide-buried-in-the-biases-and-prejudices-of-our-subconscious/story-fnihsr9v-1227469869759
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/opinion/goodes-furore-has-uncovered-a-racial-divide-buried-in-the-biases-and-prejudices-of-our-subconscious/story-fnihsr9v-1227469869759
TigerForce said:
I was watching a youtube clip the other day of Rich v North at Arden st 1983 and a North player takes a mark and Rioli covers him and mans the mark and you can hear quite clearly someone call out "Get off him you black mongrel".
tigertim said:
A lady sitting behind us in the red seat days kept yelling out to Jeff Farmer to put another flagon in his pockets, asking him if he'd drank all the petrol and various extremely racist comments. Most wouldn't bat an eyelid at that kind of behaviour then. We've come a very long way. That behaviour wouldn't be tolerated now and rightly so.
That was par for the course in those days Tim. Even players like Rioli were regarded ambivalently by our own fans - until we realised how good he was. And it was fine to racially abuse the Krakoeur brothers and cheer Maurice too. That was football. I remember one of the Krakouers belting someone (player) after being racially abused. The sh!t these guys had to put up with would have boggled the mind.
