Terrorist Attacks

[AngryAnt]

It isn't rocket science. No more Muslim intake until the religion reforms itself. It's not up to us to reform it.

It's not rocket science - it's nonsense.

What will stopping Muslim immigration acheive apart from alienating our local Muslim populations and actually other Muslim countries across the world? And why do our local Muslim people need reforming? They aren't committing acts of terror. How can they be responsible for "reforming" a religion of billions of people across the globe of different languages, cultures and actually radically differing interpretations of Islam?

And you claim anyone who disagrees with this bizarre "solution" is a traitor and is directly responsible for any acts of terror.

 

[AngryAnt]

The issue can be discussed without stereotyping, without abuse, without slapping labels on everyone.

Why do you call people who disagree with your ideas "apologists" and "traitors" then?

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

Why do you call people who disagree with your ideas "apologists" and "traitors" then?

Any attempt to justify atrocities against innocent civilians is apologism. Surely you can't disagree with that.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

It's not rocket science - it's nonsense.

What will stopping Muslim immigration acheive apart from alienating our local Muslim populations and actually other Muslim countries across the world? And why do our local Muslim people need reforming? They aren't committing acts of terror. How can they be responsible for "reforming" a religion of billions of people across the globe of different languages, cultures and actually radically differing interpretations of Islam?

And you claim anyone who disagrees with this bizarre "solution" is a traitor and is directly responsible for any acts of terror.

Perhaps you've missed all the arrests. It's costing the country billions to keep an eye on these people. Clearly the government does not trust them. So where's the payoff?

Stop any more Muslims coming in until we can trust the current crop.

 

[AngryAnt]

Any attempt to justify atrocities against innocent civilians is apologism. Surely you can't disagree with that.

Point out one post on this thread that justifies terrorism as a valid political approach.

Just because we think your method won't work doesn't make us apologists for terrorists.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

Point out one post on this thread that justifies terrorism as a valid political approach.

Can't find any overt examples ITT. But the "It's our fault for invading Iraq", even "9/11 was our fault" beliefs are rife in certain corners.

Just because we think your method won't work doesn't make us apologists for terrorists.

Not saying my opinion will "work", but it's an obvious first step. Too late for France.

 

[poppa x]

Yep. Poppa X also said the solution is obvious but when asked what it is he mysteriously disappeared.

No not disappeared.
Just busy at work earning taxes for the government to spend as wisely as they can.

Please let me explain "simple".
We have so many problems in so many different areas.
And yet, there is a common thread to many of these problems.
Consider these issues..................
1. Our public roads are clogged and getting worse by the year
2. Public Transport is collapsing under the weight of increased patronage
3. Housing prices have escalated out of the reach of most first home buyers. Demand way exceeds supply
4. Public Hospitals suffer from funding problems - not caused by lack of money, but by increasing demand on their services
5. Despite an increasing population, we have made no significant investment in water supply for 50 years. I exclude desalination as it's not a long term answer
6. The percentage of people on Government Benefits is increasing faster than the taxes collected to pay for the benefits

The common thread to all these issues is a rapidly increasing population.
By 2056 it's estimated Melbourne will grow from 4.4 million people to 8.2 million people
How will we provide the extra services and facilities an extra 4 million people need?
Is anyone talking about it?
Not that I'm aware of.

So my "simple solution" is to stop all immigration for 2 years while the government and the community have a discussion about the desired population numbers we want in 50 years. And we work out how we are going to pay for the services needed.

Once we've "resolved" the number - then we work the numbers backwards - and calculate how many immigrants we need.

Perhaps this belongs in the politics thread.

 

[TigerForce]

Not sure this is the right thread but


I saw an excellent piece from Waleed Aly in response to Sonia Kruger calling for an end to this ridiculous cycle of everybody attacking everybody and causing rifts that just feeds into itself.

It's just become a daily game of "who's head do we lop off today"? I see it as a by-product of social media and everyone having a "voice" nowadays. And of course everyone has to be bigger, louder, more obnoxious than the one before.

A disease known as Facebookitis.

 

[AngryAnt]

Can't find any overt example

You can't find any examples yet you bandy the term "traitors" around?

Classy.

 

[Giardiasis]

Can't find any overt examples ITT. But the "It's our fault for invading Iraq", even "9/11 was our fault" beliefs are rife in certain corners.

Better hang me up high then. I for one am convinced that the interventionalist foreign policy of western nations including Australia is a major contributor to the rise of Islamic extremism. I get that many would view pulling our military out of the Middle East as appeasement similar to Chamberlain in 1938, but we aren't fighting nations here. You can't defeat ideas with bombs.

For me the solution is to conduct a non interventionalist foreign policy, pursue free trade with Islamic countries, a major reduction in welfare benefits to citizens and immigrants alike and to allow civilians to arm themselves. We need to recognise what terrorism really is. Not as conventional attacks by the armed forces of another nation, but as private conspiracies and crimes which must be combatted accordingly by police action, hired mercenaries and headhunters.

While Islam as a political ideology is not comparable with capitalism, there is no reason why it can't one day allow for the separation between the religion and the state like Christianity has done. I agree with the sentiment that for the time being most Muslim immigrants would harbour an anti-capitalist ideology, hence Muslim immigration will not not help the advancement of Liberty in our social democracies. Hence if you want to become a citizen you must have demonstrated a strong commitment to living productively here.

 

[Harry]

Better hang me up high then. I for one am convinced that the interventionalist foreign policy of western nations including Australia is a major contributor to the rise of Islamic extremism.

Would have thought this to be obvious.

Sending those involved to the war crimes tribunal would be a good start.

 

[tigersnake]

Would have thought this to be obvious.

Sending those involved to the war crimes tribunal would be a good start.

Yes, words cannot do justice to extent of the stuff-up of going to war based upon a lie. The dead and maimed, the misery, the chaotic legacy, the billions wasted, the profiteering, all because GWB wanted to throw his weight around and his mate *smile* Cheney saw a business opportunity. It has to be one of the most monumentally bad decisions in history.

 

[Brodders17]

Perhaps you've missed all the arrests. It's costing the country billions to keep an eye on these people. Clearly the government does not trust them. So where's the payoff?

Stop any more Muslims coming in until we can trust the current crop.

Muslims as refugees or on any sort of visa? practising Muslims or anyone who has been the equivalent of baptised? should Muslims be allowed to holiday here? what about those who are here? Muslims from any country? what about people who convert once they are here? would the Pakistan cricket team be allowed in? if a Muslim went overseas would they be allowed back in?

im not trying to be silly, just trying to work out exactly what you want.

 

[AngryAnt]

No not disappeared.
Just busy at work earning taxes for the government to spend as wisely as they can.

Please let me explain "simple".
We have so many problems in so many different areas.
And yet, there is a common thread to many of these problems.
Consider these issues..................
1. Our public roads are clogged and getting worse by the year
2. Public Transport is collapsing under the weight of increased patronage
3. Housing prices have escalated out of the reach of most first home buyers. Demand way exceeds supply
4. Public Hospitals suffer from funding problems - not caused by lack of money, but by increasing demand on their services
5. Despite an increasing population, we have made no significant investment in water supply for 50 years. I exclude desalination as it's not a long term answer
6. The percentage of people on Government Benefits is increasing faster than the taxes collected to pay for the benefits

The common thread to all these issues is a rapidly increasing population.
By 2056 it's estimated Melbourne will grow from 4.4 million people to 8.2 million people
How will we provide the extra services and facilities an extra 4 million people need?
Is anyone talking about it?
Not that I'm aware of.

So my "simple solution" is to stop all immigration for 2 years while the government and the community have a discussion about the desired population numbers we want in 50 years. And we work out how we are going to pay for the services needed.

Once we've "resolved" the number - then we work the numbers backwards - and calculate how many immigrants we need.

Perhaps this belongs in the politics thread.

Yes, probably the politics thread Poppa. Seems to have nothing to do with the topic at hand.

 

[martyshire]

Yes, probably the politics thread Poppa. Seems to have nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Agreed. When you consider that the overwhelming majority of our immigration is well-off people from NZ, China, UK, Ireland, USA, India etc; this is absolutely a separate issue.

 

[Harry]

Yes, words cannot do justice to extent of the stuff-up of going to war based upon a lie. The dead and maimed, the misery, the chaotic legacy, the billions wasted, the profiteering, all because GWB wanted to throw his weight around and his mate *smile* Cheney saw a business opportunity. It has to be one of the most monumentally bad decisions in history.

And the Chilcott report does nothing other than fuel their hate and encourage further terrorism if the perpetrators of the findings aren't punished. No point saying it was an illegal war and "we'll" learn from this if justice isn't served. Might as well have kept it under the rug.

 

[Tigers of Old]

Would have thought this to be obvious.

Sending those involved to the war crimes tribunal would be a good start.

Bingo.

They bombed the sh!t out of a country 'shock and awe' on a lie. Terrorism much?

 

[martyshire]

Better hang me up high then. I for one am convinced that the interventionalist foreign policy of western nations including Australia is a major contributor to the rise of Islamic extremism.

Having heard a number of former, very senior Australian politicians dance around this topic recently, I am convinced that many of them share this view.

I can understand them not wanting to explicitly say so on record and copping the huge backlash. If I were a retired politician, the last thing I would want would be the Murdoch Press ruining my image and my cushy retirement.

FWIW, my view is we will never know how much our invasion of Iraq contributed to Islamic extremism, but to suggest it didn't contribute anything at all is completely absurd. Are we supposed to believe a couple of hundred thousand people whose houses were bombed and loved-ones were lost just thought "meh"?

Many wouldn't have blamed the West directly but some would have.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

Yes, words cannot do justice to extent of the stuff-up of going to war based upon a lie. The dead and maimed, the misery, the chaotic legacy, the billions wasted, the profiteering, all because GWB wanted to throw his weight around and his mate *smile* Cheney saw a business opportunity. It has to be one of the most monumentally bad decisions in history.

 

[martyshire]

A truly confronting image but what has it go to do with TS' post?

Are you saying the American people were angry and needed someone to take it out against? ANYONE to retaliate against?