Terrorist Attacks

[spook]

Ah yeah, I bet he had posters of Dutton on his bedroom wall.

What you and the Greens are saying IS lunacy, even if you can't see it.

Yes, yes. I'm a lunatic, you're a moderate, Dutton would have been a fine PM.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

First time Bachar has spoken publicly about terrorism, if I'm not mistaken.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/richmond-star-bachar-houlis-surprising-message-for-christchurch-gunman/news-story/ce5e6c4b5beb258bd89682f38a78e792

I'm not going to be critical because his intentions are good, but his timing does leave him open to the same accusations of opportunism levelled at politicians.

 

[easy_tiger]

Think you misinterpreted me Easy. I have no issue with any of what you say, wasn't intimating or taking any issue with the arguments for tougher gun laws.

Yeah i know. I was just throwing in my 2 bobs worth on guns. Didnt mean to dis you in the slightest.

To be more relevant to your question, without really knowing what im talking about, i suppose europe has more arms dealers and more land borders and is closer to war zones than australia?

 

[Panthera Tigris]

Yeah i know. I was just throwing in my 2 bobs worth on guns. Didnt mean to dis you in the slightest.

To be more relevant to your question, without really knowing what im talking about, i suppose europe has more arms dealers and more land borders and is closer to war zones than australia?

Yes I imagine there is still a huge number of military grade weapons floating around in private hands in the former Yugoslavian States. And many of the paramilitary groups that existed there - although far, far smaller than during the 1990s conflicts - still exist in some form. Some Serb & Croat parmilitaries have morphed into white supremacist groups and Bosniak, Kosava and Albanians into Islamist Militants, associating with IS and alike. I wouldn't think the border between the non-EU Balkan nations and the EU nations is overly fortified or patrolled (particularly when two former Yugoslav states are actually EU members - Croatia and Slovenia), but I could be wrong. Well, at least they weren't until the Syrian refugee crisis.

 

[MD Jazz]

My thoughts on gun laws pt.

A farmer who says he needs an AR-15 on the farm is either 1. Lying through their teeth, or 2. Has no teeth.

They call them 'modern sports rifles'

But the popular high calibres are so people can either kill heaps of people fast, or fantisise about killing heaps of people fast ( mostly the latter, and mostly zombie apocalypse type stuff. They even sell a 'zombie stopper' load, i kid you not). The AR-15 is deliberately styled on military assault rifle aesthetics, so the user can fantasize about, or act like, hes in the movies.

Yes, farmers need shooting irons as much as they need tyre levers. Meaning, you probably need to dispatch a pest or euthenaise livestock about as often as repair a flat tyre. No doubt they are an indispensible tool.

But show me the farm where you need to euthenaise 50 sheep a minute, and ill show you a farmer i dont wish to share a boundry fence with

Banning high cal semi-automatics makes perfect sense.

But people who want them will still get them. But they will have to pay 10 times rrp, and so in some instanced the lone psycho will be too busy working a sh!t job to save up for one, to be on the internet reading and writing hateful crap and planning to do horrendous things to other people.

With you on this. And I would support heavy fines/jail for people found in possession of such weapons.

There is no place for them in the general public.

 

[IanG]

Scumbag attention seeking brat who deserved everything he got and more. Disgrace he is making money from idiots that donate to fund page, no wonder society is poo!

That 'attention seeking brat' id donating the money to the victims of the terrorist act.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

That 'attention seeking brat' id donating the money to the victims of the terrorist act.

He's heeded some sage advice.

 

[brigadiertiger]

I've said for years that the Senate electoral system needs to be reformed. My preferred model would be to abolish above the line group voting. Change to something like the Hare-Clarke system used in Tasmania and the ACT for their elections.

For a usual half Senate election it would require a voter to simply number at least 1-6 preferences (and as many or as few as they want thereafter) to be a valid vote. For a full Senate, double dissolution it would be at least 1-12. Combine this with the Robson Rotation. What happens with the Robson Rotation is that candidates are still placed in groups as they are now. But on each ballot paper printed, the candidate's position rotates within their group. Each group's position also rotates where the group is placed across the page to cut out the influence of the donkey vote. It takes the power away from the Party machines and gives it back to the electors.

It would make it impossible for a fringe dweller with *smile* all votes to win a seat, which is possible in the current deceitful system.

In my opinion make it simple. If like Anning you are elected under the umbrella of a party but then leave said party you should no longer be able to become an independent you are out and have a by-election or the party appoints someone else.

 

[Panthera Tigris]

In my opinion make it simple. If like Anning you are elected under the umbrella of a party but then leave said party you should no longer be able to become an independent you are out and have a by-election or the party appoints someone else.

If a person can't simply number 1 to 6 individual candidates, dare I say, they don't have the literacy required to vote. It's not overly complicated.

 

[brigadiertiger]

If a person can't simply number 1 to 6 individual candidates, dare I say, they don't have the literacy required to vote. It's not overly complicated.

So what happens in a case like Anning was voted in under One Nation but left to be an independent? Do you go back and put in second place?

 

[Brodders17]

dont blame the electoral system for having a fool like Anning in parliament, blame the stupidity of Pauline Hanson, and the stupidity of people who voted for her. remember he replaced someone nearly as bad as Malcolm Roberts.

 

[22nd Man]

Too true, there are sh!t examples too, as you rightly point out. But I stand by my original point of people worshiping some form of superhuman mystical powers. I just get the sense that society is filling the void left by one form of illogical belief system (religion) with other illogical belief systems steeped in mythology - which is manifesting itself as unquestioning faith based worship of political figures and causes.

I was happy with your point that has been an excessively positive reaction to Ardern.... Doubt that Howard revived same accolades though his actions were essentially the same post Port Arthur. And there were plenty in the coalition who weren't happy with his hard line stance on guns. (On that I wonder if our gun laws were a factor in Tarrant choosing NZ. I realise that these assua,t rifles can be found in the black market underworld but Tarrant appears to not have moved in those circles)

 

[22nd Man]

pS too much airtime and media has been spent on "right to free speech" than on the causes of the atrocity. Anning has roped in all the usual suspects on this even if they don't support his prejudice.

 

[Tigers of Old]

He's heeded some sage advice.

Yep. Not sure that was his first intention.

 

[22nd Man]

No, she wore a hijab. A burqa is what Pauline Hanson wore into the Senate chamber in her juvenile stunt.

And this is what most women visiting a mosque, and/or formal Muslim gatherings - even outsiders. It's just common manners. A bit like taking one's shoes off entering a Japanese or Korean house. They usually even have a few spares at the entrance of mosques for female visitors who may not be carrying one (my wife having worn them when we visited mosques as tourists while traveling).

Nothing overly unique, revolutionary or ground breaking about this. But commentators are acting like she's the first non-Muslim lady to ever don a headscarf while attending an engagement with Muslim people. Now, if the NZ PM was a bloke wearing a head scarf to an engagement with Muslim people, that would quite possibly be a first.......

And the usual suspects bagged Bishop for doing the same when meeting leaders in ?Islamic nations.

In India I have visited Hindu temples wearing shorts and in some been required to don a lungi to cover my legs.

Didn't feel I had surrendered my culture in acquiescing.

Also don't feel I have sold out my Christian values when wearing the little paper yarmulke when attending a Jewish synagogue.

 

[easy_tiger]

And the usual suspects bagged Bishop for doing the same when meeting leaders in ?Islamic nations.

In India I have visited Hindu temples wearing shorts and in some been required to don a lungi to cover my legs.

Didn't feel I had surrendered my culture in acquiescing.

Also don't feel I have sold out my Christian values when wearing the little paper yarmulke when attending a Jewish synagogue.

I wore a west coast beanie last grandfinal day

 

[Panthera Tigris]

I was happy with your point that has been an excessively positive reaction to Ardern.... Doubt that Howard revived same accolades though his actions were essentially the same post Port Arthur. And there were plenty in the coalition who weren't happy with his hard line stance on guns. (On that I wonder if our gun laws were a factor in Tarrant choosing NZ. I realise that these assua,t rifles can be found in the black market underworld but Tarrant appears to not have moved in those circles)

That is true. If I remember correctly (I was only early high school at the time) it threatened to break apart the L-NP Coalition, with large swathes of the National Party in particular vehemently against the stance he took on fire arm reform. And Howard's office had received death threats from more hard line elements of the gun lobby. Due to AFP advice, he even wore a bullet proof vest to public speeches he attended, and spoke at regarding gun reform, where he was shouted off the stage by an angry mob with pitch forks (or is that AR-15s, rather than pitchforks?).

And indeed, there most certainly wasn't the same reverence around how he acted - which as you suggest, was essentially the same - as one would expect from their political leader, no more, no less. Bill Clinton if I remember correctly gave some particularly heart felt messages and speeches in the aftermath of the Oklahoma City bombing too, as well as practical actions in resourcing law inforcement and intelligence to quickly bring the perpetrator to justice. Again, I don't remember the same reverence around his actions.

 

[Panthera Tigris]

And the usual suspects bagged Bishop for doing the same when meeting leaders in ?Islamic nations.

What line did the critics take 22? She was an enemy to feminism for submitting to Islamic misogyny and patriarchy?

Seriously, you can't win with the cult of the Social Justice quasi-religion adherents. I'm convinced in this shallow, narcissistic, social media influenced world we live in, people are not so much concerned with WHAT is being done, the concern is more WHO is doing it. Suffice to say, if John Key was still NZ PM, I have every confidence he would have acted in a similar fashion, but no way would he have received the same fawning admiration.

 

[K3]

<snip>

I even heard a conversation on the radio where one person was saying, how lucky NZ was to have such a PM. The other was replying that there's nothing lucky about it, NZ voters are so so smart, empathetic and compassionate to vote in such a leader - which is a total exaggeration. It wasn't anything as romantic as that. There was a hung Parliament, Winston Peters, from the right-wing populist NZ First Party was king maker and could have chosen either side. He went Labor due to the better political deal they offered him and hence Ardern is PM. Nothing inherently wrong with that, but it appears as the western world has abandoned religion, they are turning to other demigods to worship and create mythology about, as opposed to looking at things objectively.

Again, nothing mean spirited meant to Jacinta Ardern herself, she's been good. But I find the aura around her as eerily similar to religious worship.

I know I am behind on this one but just wanted to add that I think the immense appreciate of Adhern is largely due to the bloody terrible state politics (and especially politicians) are in around the globe. This shambles has really made her stand out amongst her peers.

To reinforce this thought, what do you think would have been the reaction, to the terrible attack from:
Trump or Morrison (keeping it to our main spheres of influence)?

 

[Panthera Tigris]

I know I am behind on this one but just wanted to add that I think the immense appreciate of Adhern is largely due to the bloody terrible state politics (and especially politicians) are in around the globe. This shambles has really made her stand out amongst her peers.

To reinforce this thought, what do you think would have been the reaction, to the terrible attack from:
Trump or Morrison (keeping it to our main spheres of influence)?

Trump is a very different cat. I wouldn't have a lot of confidence in him reacting particularly well (a bit like the ear point about Bush being totally inadequate after 9/11 or Hurricane Katrina). He is a strange, strange man who marches to a very different drum than most people.

Morrison however, not sure how you equate him to being similar to Trump. Sure he's a conservative leaning bloke. But just because you're a white, Anglo-Saxon, heterosexual male of I conservative leanings, doesn't make you a heartless prick of the likes of Trump. Which seems to be the simplistic, cliched caricature being accepted in public discourse. He might be a bit on the boring side, but he isn't some sort of out there extremist. In fact, both ScoMo and the usually very wooden Bill Shorten both gave heartfelt, emotional reactions in the immediate aftermath. If the same happened in Australia, either of these two - despite their many other political short comings - I have every confidence, would have acted similarly.

As I say, even John Howard, a staunch conservative, with obvious flaws acted similarly in the aftermath of Port Arthur. As did Bill Clinton after Oklahoma, Barrack Obama after Sandy Hook and François Hollande after Paris. Because for most people, regardless of their politics, it's a natural human reaction to such tragedy.