The big picture: improvement is not a ratchet

[Tygrys]

There is nothing logical to say that because Geelong had a dip year in 2006 before going on to dominate that Richmond will do the same.

Also had Geelong recruited the same number recycles and rejects that Richmond has and how many of them were playing in the first 22? And also did they continue to gift their duds (assuming they had any?) automatic selection? Personally I don't really see the comparison. Dominate after this year? We'll be extremely lucky simply to hold our ground.

 

[Baloo]

There is nothing logical to say that because Geelong had a dip year in 2006 before going on to dominate that Richmond will do the same.

The logic is in the way Geelong handled their bad year. They didn't panic or over react. Reviewed, trusted their direction, tweeked around the edges and kept to their plan. It paid dividends big time.

If they had thrown everything out the window and restarted I doubt they would have been they success they were/are.

 

[tigertim]

The logic is in the way Geelong handled their bad year. They didn't panic or over react. Reviewed, trusted their direction, tweeked around the edges and kept to their plan. It paid dividends big time.

If they had thrown everything out the window and restarted I doubt they would have been they success they were/are.

Then with that rationale Fremantle should have stayed with Harvey, not appointed Lyon and not had the improvement they had. Melbourne should have stayed with Neeld ( and no I'm not saying we,re as bad as Melbourne) st Kilda should have kept Watters etc etc.

 

[Harry]

so this is part of the master plan? ok

 

[Brettstigers]

As much as I want to, I don't agree with this thread.

I agree with the administration, I agree with Hardwick, I agree with our recruitment decisions. Those are good things. Hell I was even impressed with a lot of our tackling last night.

But we lack genuine pace, we lack clean ball handling under pressure, we lack elite fitness, we lack matchwinning players on any line, we lack pressure on player positions from the twos. I don't know where the improvement in these items will arrive from and it has to come if we want to have that premiership window i.e top 4 - lets not mention that four letter word starting with f.

I believe the franchise teams will continue to improve at a great rate. I therefore don't believe that "in the big picture" our step back will be followed by a step forward in the immediate future.

 

[Baloo]

Then with that rationale Fremantle should have stayed with Harvey, not appointed Lyon and not had the improvement they had. Melbourne should have stayed with Neeld ( and no I'm not saying we,re as bad as Melbourne) st Kilda should have kept Watters etc etc.

You're really just being belligerent. I'm not sure where I said stay with the coach at all costs. The club is more than the coach and if you scroll back a bit you'll see where if a solid review comes back and says the coach has reached their point of usefulness and needs to go for the club to move on, so be it.

But over reacting, knee jerking and panicking is not the way to go forward. Calm, rationale and facts without emotion is what is needed to get us to the next level.

 

[Harry]

But over reacting, knee jerking and panicking is not the way to go forward. Calm, rationale and facts without emotion is what is needed to get us to the next level.

agree. this is where Benny will earn his keep. He needs to make the call and assess whether we are on the right path or not. There is nothing wrong with sacking a coach mid contract if the club has done it's homework and come to that conclusion.

 

[TigerForce]

agree. this is where Benny will earn his keep. He needs to make the call and assess whether we are on the right path or not. There is nothing wrong with sacking a coach mid contract if the club has done it's homework and come to that conclusion.

As long as it's not done in the Brisbane way.

 

[CarnTheTiges]

agree. this is where Benny will earn his keep. He needs to make the call and assess whether we are on the right path or not. There is nothing wrong with sacking a coach mid contract if the club has done it's homework and come to that conclusion.

I agree too. They need to put a review in place. Go through absolutely everything and get everyone onboard. It worked for Geelong.

 

[Rowdy]

Well if this is a step backwards, I'd hate to see what free fall looks like

 

[tigertim]

You're really just being belligerent. I'm not sure where I said stay with the coach at all costs. The club is more than the coach and if you scroll back a bit you'll see where if a solid review comes back and says the coach has reached their point of usefulness and needs to go for the club to move on, so be it.

But over reacting, knee jerking and panicking is not the way to go forward. Calm, rationale and facts without emotion is what is needed to get us to the next level.

Sorry you feel I'm being belligerent, just thought we were having a discussion. And I'm not saying for a second DH should sacked, I just don't go along with your Geelong comparison (but I'll leave it there....)

 

[toby64]

It may well be the step backwards we need to move into the top bracket.

It might also be that last year was as good as it gets.


Who knows?

But it certainly appears that the faith shown in players with obvious deficiencies is not being repaid, nor will it be. Other clubs have worked us out. Dont give us space, cover the release players out the back...put the Tigers under pressure and watch them butcher the football.

Every game has played that way so far. We do not have enough players who are composed in tight. This is groundhog day.

 

[tigergollywog]

But over reacting, knee jerking and panicking is not the way to go forward. Calm, rationale and facts without emotion is what is needed to get us to the next level.

baloogic happens. good post. snakes good at big picture stuff too.

 

[tigertime2]

Where's Jeff?

Kennett was going to sack Clarkson because he was heading in the wrong direction...love him or hate him Jeff was right.....who at board level is going to keep a cool head but demand changes?

This is not a part of a master plan...this is a newbie coach with his pants pulled down,,,he has to reinvent himself...can Dimma do it? we will find out by mid next year.

 

[brigadiertiger]

As has been mentioned Geelong took a step backwards in 2006 and look what happened there I am not saying that we are going to go through a dynasty like Geelong but I think we probably needed a step back to go forwards and at least have a chance at glory albeit with some work to do.

 

[spook]

Also had Geelong recruited the same number recycles and rejects that Richmond has and how many of them were playing in the first 22? And also did they continue to gift their duds (assuming they had any?) automatic selection? Personally I don't really see the comparison. Dominate after this year? We'll be extremely lucky simply to hold our ground.

Geelong 2006 duds: Byrnes (10 games), Blake (8 games), D.Johnson (17), Tenace (14), Playfair ( 8), Slade (6), Gardiner (5), Kingsley (9), N.Ablett (7), Callan (6), Prismall ( 8), Koulouriotis (1), Spencer (2), McCarthy (4), Gamble (1). The Cats used 36 players that year and found out who was worth keeping and who wasn't. We must do likewise. Calls have to be made post-season on the likes of Batch, Dea, O'Hanlon (gone IMO) and several others.

We're not in the exact same position as Geelong was but there are similarities. Their improvement came from the club as a whole taking an honest, hard look at itself and the players deciding to live up to Tommy Hafey's quote: "If it is to be, it is up to me."

The main difference is a year later Geelong was shown to have champions on nearly every line. Strong characters who refused to lose. We need to find those blokes.

 

[Ridley]

The comparison with Geelong is moot. The difference in class between the two playing lists is a gulf as wide as the Pacific. People tend to forget that Bomber had Geelong in 3 finals series before that disastrous 2006 season, including a close defeat by Brisbane in a 2004 PF and that unlucky loss to Sydney in 2005 SF.

But I agree a review needs to be undertaken at the end of the year particularly if the season keeps its current course. If that review determines Hardwick is not the right man to take us forward, which is what I believe, then he should be replaced and we will have to suffer the financial consequences of paying out his ridiculously extended contract. Not ideal but financially we are in a strong position and can handle it. The financial implications from loss of membership, crowd and sponsorship revenue from keeping him on could be far greater. If this continues people will drop off. You can't blame them; no one wants to watch the sh!t we have dished up this year. It's reminiscent of the great depressions under Spud and Plough.

The review is also needed to reset our goals as we have missed 2 of the 3 key targets outlined by Gale & co.

1. Zero debt; achieved and a great effort
2. 75,000 members by 2014; not achieved yet and highly unlikely to get there; still 63000 now is a huge effort from where we were but ultimately we haven't achieved the goal
3. 3 finals appearances by 2014; already a fail and in the likelihood we don't get there this year will be a massive failure

Regular finals is the only thing that will get us to the targeted membership number. It is crucial. After all these years and all the gains made off the field this club still can't get the most important element right; what happens on the park.

 

[spook]

Good call, Riddles.

 

[SupremeTiger]

We continue to have review after review, improvement can only come from developing quaity young talent.
We can see that our improvement over the last couple of years has been on the back of the likes of Cotchin, Matin etc..
The comparisons made here to the Geelong team of 2006 are so far off the mark its not funny.
We have a good core of players to build a good side but week after week we have far too many passengers and not enough players contributing as a team.
We have many players that cannot play to game plan and consistenly make the same errors week in week out with basic skill errors, poor decision making, can't defend a lead at the end of games
.
If we are serious as a club we will use this year to heavily scrutinize the playing list and weed out the players that simply cannot take us to the next level.

Our policy of using recycled top up players are a stop gap measure and cannot get us to being a serious top 4 contender.
The club is moving forward in leaps and bounds off field which is a great springboard to achieve great things as a club but i am afraid a lot of this crop of players are not up to it.

 

[st.francis]

The comparison with Geelong is moot. The difference in class between the two playing lists is a gulf as wide as the Pacific. People tend to forget that Bomber had Geelong in 3 finals series before that disastrous 2006 season, including a close defeat by Brisbane in a 2004 PF and that unlucky loss to Sydney in 2005 SF.

But I agree a review needs to be undertaken at the end of the year particularly if the season keeps its current course. If that review determines Hardwick is not the right man to take us forward, which is what I believe, then he should be replaced and we will have to suffer the financial consequences of paying out his ridiculously extended contract. Not ideal but financially we are in a strong position and can handle it. The financial implications from loss of membership, crowd and sponsorship revenue from keeping him on could be far greater. If this continues people will drop off. You can't blame them; no one wants to watch the sh!t we have dished up this year. It's reminiscent of the great depressions under Spud and Plough.

The review is also needed to reset our goals as we have missed 2 of the 3 key targets outlined by Gale & co.

1. Zero debt; achieved and a great effort
2. 75,000 members by 2014; not achieved yet and highly unlikely to get there; still 63000 now is a huge effort from where we were but ultimately we haven't achieved the goal
3. 3 finals appearances by 2014; already a fail and in the likelihood we don't get there this year will be a massive failure

Regular finals is the only thing that will get us to the targeted membership number. It is crucial. After all these years and all the gains made off the field this club still can't get the most important element right; what happens on the park.

Perfect