Welcome to Tigers: Jason Castagna

[Leysy Days]

1. He's an established player in the specific age bracket which we lack players. He has a level of experience in between players like Jack and Bolton that's probably the weakest demographic on our list.

2. He knows the system, game plan and team rules, and does exactly as instructed.

3. He's a brilliant team man. Team mates love him and he's culturally important.

The age bracket and popular theories make no sense. You dont get games at AFL level for those reasons.

Number 2 is bang on though CT.

George has been a permanent fixture for 6 years now, not fringe or mostly in.

He's on track to play 135-140 matches in just 6 years from 17' to 22'. He is permanently marked in our best team.

For that to occur he has and is performing exactly what the coaching staff are asking of him - system, game plan, rules, structure etc like you say.

He may get upgraded one day, but not until his replacement can do all those things all match.

 

[Leysy Days]

Absolutely, this is something the learned live game and TV watchers don't understand. He is a game disruptor and it is costly.

If you listen to Dimma talk about George, he know's George is unpredictable and a disruptor.

But he also rightly believes those are strengths he brings to our team.

If we aren't sure what he will do next, how do the opposition ha! Especially in an era of defensive structure's and zones.

 

[Carter]

Cliff’s notes for PREnders who wanna catch up on this most complex and contentious of threads:

- if you are in the Goldilocks age bracket, RFC will play you in the ones, no questions asked.

- if you are popular to boot, you are a guaranteed top ten finish in the JDM.

- however, even if you are an elite runner you cannot be classed as an elite runner on PRE until you have won an Olympic Gold medal.

 

[tigerdell]

Jink the player
Centre Half Forward in the best team going around.
Is often found in the same pack as Lynch or Jack doing his bit to bring the ball to ground.

Works to team rules and structures
Runs around ragged and against the flow. Often runs away from surging teammates (strange rule that!)

Elite runner tho not top ranked in endurance or repeat sprints or other running categories

Fills a hole. So well the ball never gets there.

Is a footballer with the ability to kick clutch goals. But not handball 2m.

If we don't know where he is going, how can the opposition? Or our leading forwards? Teamwork?

For all the negatives he is a hard body with high end pace that hits hard. I can see why Dimma likes him

 

[Coburgtiger]

The age bracket and popular theories make no sense. You dont get games at AFL level for those reasons.

Number 2 is bang on though CT.

George has been a permanent fixture for 6 years now, not fringe or mostly in.

He's on track to play 135-140 matches in just 6 years from 17' to 22'. He is permanently marked in our best team.

For that to occur he has and is performing exactly what the coaching staff are asking of him - system, game plan, rules, structure etc like you say.

He may get upgraded one day, but not until his replacement can do all those things all match.

My point has only ever been that he's upgradeable.

I guess the point of contention is when.

 

[Tony Braxton-Hicks]

His heat map is an igloo that leaves an entry hole for our f50 entries. Not sure anyone else in AFL can do that. View attachment 15498

I see a PacMan, and that makes the most sense of all.

 

[Coburgtiger]

Cliff’s notes for PREnders who wanna catch up on this most complex and contentious of threads:

- if you are in the Goldilocks age bracket, RFC will play you in the ones, no questions asked.

- if you are popular to boot, you are a guaranteed top ten finish in the JDM.

- however, even if you are an elite runner you cannot be classed as an elite runner on PRE until you have won an Olympic Gold medal.

Olympic gold would be impressive.

Anything other than 'Word of Carter' would be good enough.

I can't see any tracker data, or movement in front of my eyes, that suggests anything other than maybe an above average AFL runner.

It's so obvious as well when you have players like Kmac, Pickett, Rioli, Graham and a fit Lambo what an elite runner looks like.

Even your favourite J. Ross has shown to be a better runner in terms of ground covered and repeat sprints this year.

 

[Razorgang2]

I'm loving the banter, but from any serious technical perspective, he is not producing the footy he was 2017-2019. I might be wrong here, but he is not irreplaceable.
I can see the game plan has changed out of necessity, but, skill wise he is just average, he cant tackle to save himself, and goes MIA, way to often. However, the coach
loves him, and he knows more about the game than me.

 

[Coburgtiger]

So he gets senior games in an elite, billion dollar industry because he’s in the right age bracket and he’s popular?

Lol this just gets better and better.

If you combine those things with playing a role, then yes.

The question is whether somebody else could perform that role. I say that based on the fact that he is not being asked to cover a heap of ground, or top out our repeat sprints, or pressure, or tackle, or use the ball creatively, then there a couple of kids who could.

But you can't have too many kids in a side. You need a balance of experience. And the Richmond men are blood brothers.

They will play better with their mates around them. While they are able to find and justify a role for them.

 

[Smoking Aces]

Yes, you've mentioned a number of times how funny you find farts.

Okay, so we've moved again from total kms to repeat sprints.

Well, he wasn't in the top 5 for total spirits or repeat sprints either. So... Next?

Here's the thing, I'm not saying George doesn't run. Or that he's a poor runner. Or that he doesn't play a role.

It's just that he's not an elite runner, or even the best we have.

Which is not necessarily a fair thing to expect of a footballer. But he's a poor user, a poor decision maker, one of our statistically worst pressure players and tacklers. I would think that would necessitate that he be an elite runner. And he's just pretty good.

I think people on here tie themselves in knots trying, fancifully imagining things that they pretend are happening to make sense of the story.

I think it's a bit simpler than all of that.

There is obviously a reason that George has his place cemented in the side. I think it's more straightforward and less tangible than all the fabrication about fat side repeat sprinting.

1. He's an established player in the specific age bracket which we lack players. He has a level of experience in between players like Jack and Bolton that's probably the weakest demographic on our list.

2. He knows the system, game plan and team rules, and does exactly as instructed.

3. He's a brilliant team man. Team mates love him and he's culturally important.

There are qualities and facets of football teams which are almost organic. And certainly invisible to the outside observer.

The most convincing suggestion I've ever seen for his inclusion is that the team wants him in.

The most ridiculous suggestion is that he is somehow the world's most exceptional traffic cone and gets a game on that.

That the players want to play with him, is honestly probably enough for me. But what's the point of these forums if I can't pontificate on:

Out: Castagna
In: Banks

Sorry CT but players don’t picked based on a popularity contest.

You mentioned Banks as a replacement. Maybe next year. But he ain’t anywhere near ready now to play that role.

 

[DavidSSS]

our game is starting to come together, Roar.

I reckon our coaches have been looking to find ways to defend the stand rule all summer.

I also reckon we held some tactical things back for the Melbourne game. keep that powder dry for the next time we play them.

the west coast game was the one where we got the balance right at selection.

- forward pressure with MRJ (and Stack in that game)

- balta and baker back to shore up the magnificent 7

- short into midfield

- two rucks

this allows us to win more ball in midfield, repel more at D50, defend more effectively in F50. teams are no longer lining up to slice us on transition.

the critical 'wide containment' part of this equation is supplied by George and some others. this is why he is one of the first selected despite the absence of Diesel like hand passes and ten million tackles.

we are starting to look more like the ALL-GROUND defensive unit of 2017-2020. *despite* the stand rule and 666.

and people still complain about George. sheesh.

Hmm, I like your argument but in the last 4 games we have conceded 56 (WCE), 86 (coll), 94 (Haw) and 48 (Ess). So, we still conceded high scores and we are still equal highest with Carlton in terms of points against for teams in the 8.

I need more evidence to know if we really can restrict opposition scoring.

As for Castagna, I'm not convinced he is the space blocker Carter claims. I understand the whole issue of space, you see it every week that players are constantly trying to find somewhere on the ground they can find a team mate who will not be immediately hassled so that they can pass to a player who can get one of those priceless clean entries inside 50. It isn't easy in the modern game to find space, and players do have a role to fill space and reduce the options for the opposition. I'm just not convinced Castagna really has as much impact in this context as is claimed and his output is not impressive.

DS

 

[MD Jazz]

My point has only ever been that he's upgradeable.

I guess the point of contention is when.

After his 4th flag will do me

 

[Carter]

I have been educated and stand corrected.

It is here I have learned that George is not an elite runner. I’m fact, he is so slow the other players have showered and gone 12 rounds of hacky sack by the time George has rounded the tan. He’s so mind-numbingly slow that people think he’s a stationary mime artist and give him coins.

Those who “sit on his wing” and “watch him all game” provide me with these nuggets of truth. George’s pace is a furphy, they say, a mirage that has enchanted us for several years now.

Than you, PRE. I now see the light.

Hardwick must go for allowing selection to be so compromised.

 

[Tenacious]

I have been educated and stand corrected.
…………………

Than you, PRE. I now see the light.

Hardwick must go for allowing selection to be so compromised.

Your last line is quite ironic given that - I think it was mid-2017 - you wanted him gone then and there.

 

[TigerMad]

We seem to now be moving the ball more quickly with forward handpasses.
Maybe chaos George can now get more involved again?

 

[Dont Argue]

So to recap the last 30 pages.
For the affirmative.
1. He’s fast.
2. He fills in holes.

For the negative.
1. He can’t kick.
2. He can’t handball.
3. He doesn’t get enough disposals.
4. He runs around in circles.
5. He gets in the way of our marking forwards and spoils their marks.
6. He doesn’t tackle.
7. He doesn’t provide enough pressure.

Great debate.
It looks close but think the affirmatives have it

 

[MD Jazz]

For the affirmative.
1. He’s fast.
2. He fills in holes.

Maybe we should rename him Spackle?

 

[jb03]

So to recap the last 30 pages.
For the affirmative.
1. He’s fast.
2. He fills in holes.

For the negative.
1. He can’t kick.
2. He can’t handball.
3. He doesn’t get enough disposals.
4. He runs around in circles.
5. He gets in the way of our marking forwards and spoils their marks.
6. He doesn’t tackle.
7. He doesn’t provide enough pressure.

Great debate.
It looks close but think the affirmatives have it

Sort of like getting picked in a test team for your fielding when you can't bat or bowl.

 

[Brodders17]

I hear you TF, but folks seem to be looking for 1000 tackles if he doesn't get the pill or doesn't use it effectively.

i would argue neither is his current KPI.

here's what everyone on PRE should be looking at to measure the worth of George's game :

- speed of opposition ball movement

- spread of opposition ball movement

and ultimately, and game-winningly:

- team turnover scores

we complain about the stand rule and rightly so. but we should not complain when *smile* Petracca marks the ball at half back, looks to dish a 45m dart to Langdon on the fat wing but George is already sprinting into space there.

the story finishes with Trac going long to Gawn, where Nank spoils, Prestia gathers, dishes to Titch, who dishes to Bolton in space. easy Lynch hit up in F50 space. goal.

the game is about wider containment now. outlet denial.

you need insanely hard runners to achieve wide containment. we have them. george is one of them.

Carts this is some of your better posting, but what we really need is for you to take another one for the team and call for him to be dropped so he can follow up with some career best form, ala Lynch, Jack and Nank.

i must say I have barely seen a game live for the last 3 years, so cant really judge Castagna's games, as it is rare that he is actually on the screen.

 

[Carter]

To apply logic to this ailing thread:

1) defending the ground is important to our coaching staff, and therefore the team

2) we have a couple of once in a generation ball users in Martin and Bolton

3) to maximise the frankly devastating weaponry these two possess, we give them free reign, often forward of the contest

4) if we are to do this, there must be a balance in the ledger. Dimma is nothing if not a sharp accounting mind

5) there is a clique of players within the squad who play selfless roles to balance out our offense. These players often do not trouble the statistician a great deal, but seek to hit internal KPIs. All clubs implement some form of this.

6) there are defensive contest players. Jack Graham would be looking to meet the oppo ball winning bull and tackle at every opportunity.

7) there are outlet wingers, gut runners like Pickett and KMac who are tasked with providing options on the fat side and supporting outlets from D50.

8) there are containment players who take the previous role a step further, starting in F50 and sprinting to deny easy oppo outlets from their own D50. Jake Aarts and yes, Jason Castagna perform containment roles.

9) the aforementioned containment roles are critical in slowing the aggressive ball movement the best sides are now deploying to take advantage of the stand rule. Our best teams over the past six years have always penalised fast movement like a fly hitting the spiders web. Our back seven is drilled to intercept, but ideally we wanna turn it over as close to our own F50 as possible. Wide containment funnels the pill where we want it to go - where Nankervis, Prestia, Edwards and finally Bolton / Martin are waiting in sequence.

10) the nature of George and Jake’s containment roles perversely result in fewer possessions than others because if they contain effectively they will inevitably be …

where the ball is not

for much of the game.

Now is that enough logic for y’all or do we need Coburg to preach to us again on George’s chronic inability to run?