Yes true. So where does the taking a team from second to one flag V taking a team from 15th to 3 flags come in? Is the latter a lesser impact on how good the team is? You're talking a lot but not making any sense.
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Who are we supporting to win the flag now we are out?
- Thread starter TigerPort
- Start date
This.
Never had a particular hatred of Geelong as a club. Not like Collingwood. But it is how unlikeable a fair number of their players, and their current coach, are. I was quite happy when Geelong massacred Port and won that flag. But the way the leaders at Geelong currently act, looking for frees, playing for frees, wiping out opponents etc, just makes them my least favourite current team.
DS
Love you TBR, but the idea that Scott is a great match day coach struggles when you look at his finals/GF record. The H&A record doesn't look as good when you consistently make top four but then only make 1 GF since 2010, and lose it.
If he was as great a match day coach as you suggest he'd have a much better finals record than he does.
Of course if the Cats win this year that's a good corrective. If he cant win it this year then he's been an underachieving coach.
The simpler explanation is that the 7-8 gimme wins per season at KP have inflated his win/loss record considerably.
If he was as great a match day coach as you suggest he'd have a much better finals record than he does.
Of course if the Cats win this year that's a good corrective. If he cant win it this year then he's been an underachieving coach.
The simpler explanation is that the 7-8 gimme wins per season at KP have inflated his win/loss record considerably.
Humans are a funny species like this.
Reminds me of Scotland. If Rangers are playing in a European tournament final, everyone in Scotland apart from the Rangers fans themselves are barracking (not just barracking - barracking with all their might) for the opposition. And the same if it were Celtic.
Wouldn’t matter if they are playing a Russian, German or even an English club. Any sense of Scottish solidarity is non existent.
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Scott inherited one of the greatest teams in history. Five years later his team added prime Patrick Dangerfield. A few years later he got prime Jeremy Cameron and evergreen Isaac Smith. Stephen Wells has found him Sam De Koning, Max Holmes, Brandon Parfitt. Eddie Betts brought him Tyson Stengle. And like Ant says, GOOMBAH Stadium is a massive advantage.
The 2020 Sound The Alarm doco showed Dimma calm and all over everything in the box. Scott was barracking and seemed bereft of ideas. He's clearly a very good coach, but Dimma is clearly the best coach in the game.
(Just as a side note, with Clarko coming into Norf begging for a priority pick, let's remember he started his career at Hawthorn with a PP that delivered him either Franklin or Roughead depending how you look at it. You could argue that without that pick he is a zero premiership coach, despite being clearly a great coach.)
Can we not play the man, though? TBR is entitled to his opinion, which although 'clearly' wrong in this case, is as usual based on his experience observing the game up close at the top level, and argued dispassionately. Attack the post, not the poster.
ABG.
The 2020 Sound The Alarm doco showed Dimma calm and all over everything in the box. Scott was barracking and seemed bereft of ideas. He's clearly a very good coach, but Dimma is clearly the best coach in the game.
(Just as a side note, with Clarko coming into Norf begging for a priority pick, let's remember he started his career at Hawthorn with a PP that delivered him either Franklin or Roughead depending how you look at it. You could argue that without that pick he is a zero premiership coach, despite being clearly a great coach.)
Can we not play the man, though? TBR is entitled to his opinion, which although 'clearly' wrong in this case, is as usual based on his experience observing the game up close at the top level, and argued dispassionately. Attack the post, not the poster.
ABG.
You're not listening. I am talking about the time between the ball being bounced and the final siren going.
The vast majority of the journey you are talking about comes outside that. For a start someone has to assemble you a list capable of winning the flag, then someone else has to get them fit and healthy enough to last the journey. Then you have to hope like hell they don't get injured.
A coach can only take a team so far though Antman. Geelong have been stuck in the position of being good enough to be top 4 and not good enough to be top 2.
Look at Craig McRae, I don't think anyone would argue that he has been an excellent coach this year but I'd expect Collingwood to loss two finals and maybe win one. If they go out in straight sets does that mean he isn't an excellent coach? To me it's about the impact you have on your team, the best coach doesn't always win just like the best player doesn't because it takes a team.
I wouldn't be taking anything from a documentary. The previous year made it seem like all Hardwick does in the box is say tell them to raise the fight every two minutes.
You've got me there, brilliant position and well argued.
I actually feel pretty stupid to have ever thought the opposite. I apologise and unreservedly withdraw. Thanks for setting me straight.
I'm listening, but it is very confusing. So to take your argument to its logical conclusion, coaches are irrelevant. You could stick Humphrey B Bear in the chair.You're not listening. I am talking about the time between the ball being bounced and the final siren going.
The vast majority of the journey you are talking about comes outside that. For a start someone has to assemble you a list capable of winning the flag, then someone else has to get them fit and healthy enough to last the journey. Then you have to hope like hell they don't get injured.
A coach can only take a team so far though Antman. Geelong have been stuck in the position of being good enough to be top 4 and not good enough to be top 2.
Look at Craig McRae, I don't think anyone would argue that he has been an excellent coach this year but I'd expect Collingwood to loss two finals and maybe win one. If they go out in straight sets does that mean he isn't an excellent coach? To me it's about the impact you have on your team, the best coach doesn't always win just like the best player doesn't because it takes a team.
I wouldn't be taking anything from a documentary. The previous year made it seem like all Hardwick does in the box is say tell them to raise the fight every two minutes.
And documentaries tell us nothing? Why make a doco? Why watch one? I understand they aren't gospel and can be creatively edited, I'm not an idiot, but documentaries do provide insight. It seems you're just dismissing any evidence that counters your argument.
Evidence, not opinion, against your Scott is the superior coach theory:
The doco that shows Scott to be pretty underwhelming in the box on match day. 'Kick this we win' (?!) There were some other doozies.
Dimma has owned Scott on the biggest match days there are. Finals wins in the book. And come from behind wins at that!
Another piece of evidence, but I fully appreciate its only my interpretation of it, Until recently Scott acted like a clown in the box on match days, openly whinging about umpiring decisions like I do! Again IYO that might be great coaching, but the fact is, not opinion, is that he carries on in the box. He's pulled his head in on that lately, although he did revert and bang the window when they beat us. Taking out Prestia good match day coaching? I think you speculated it wasn't planned, and we'll never know of course, but I disagree. I don't think he directly instructed TS to go the elbow cheap shot, nothing like that, but he told his players to physically target him when they had the chance and that was the result.
I reckon you sell Hardwick well short, and sound like the LeppaCella fans who minimised any credit to Hardwick they could.
I've sat and watched Stewart be close to BOG at half time twice in finals. I have then seen Hardwick make adjustments, and Stewart have little impact after that, and watched Scott have no response. I have seen Hardwick do similar to Hodge in 2019, and to Coleman in a very important game a few weeks ago.
I have seen Hardwick shift Balta from defense to attack at half time, and Balta play a strong part in us winning the GF.
We regularly make successful shifts in how we move the ball, or defend, or set up in attack, and this down to Hardwick.
You can call Scott the best H&A coach in the league, but he has been constantly found wanting when it is all or nothing in finals, when opposition coaches are at their best and not leaving any tricks on the table, and he has not been able to respond to in game challenges when it has mattered most.
Swans. Even though I dislike Franklin I have a soft spot for what P.Mc has endured and the story it would be for him and his family.
No way Cats
No way Melb
No way BL
Hard to say this but because my like of McCrae & Leppa ok to the Pies but they overtake our story of 13th- premiers.
Fremantle to achieve their first I don’t mind.
No way Cats
No way Melb
No way BL
Hard to say this but because my like of McCrae & Leppa ok to the Pies but they overtake our story of 13th- premiers.
Fremantle to achieve their first I don’t mind.
Anyone who thinks Scott is better coach across board is Delusional.You're not listening. I am talking about the time between the ball being bounced and the final siren going.
The vast majority of the journey you are talking about comes outside that. For a start someone has to assemble you a list capable of winning the flag, then someone else has to get them fit and healthy enough to last the journey. Then you have to hope like hell they don't get injured.
A coach can only take a team so far though Antman. Geelong have been stuck in the position of being good enough to be top 4 and not good enough to be top 2.
Look at Craig McRae, I don't think anyone would argue that he has been an excellent coach this year but I'd expect Collingwood to loss two finals and maybe win one. If they go out in straight sets does that mean he isn't an excellent coach? To me it's about the impact you have on your team, the best coach doesn't always win just like the best player doesn't because it takes a team.
I wouldn't be taking anything from a documentary. The previous year made it seem like all Hardwick does in the box is say tell them to raise the fight every two minutes.
You've got me there, brilliant position and well argued.
I actually feel pretty stupid to have ever thought the opposite. I apologise and unreservedly withdraw. Thanks for setting me straight.
I suspect your in that small minority group that gives no credit to Dimma club.
BTW how is Scotts record against Dimma when it matters In Finals champ?
You raised a 10 year journey to a premiership, I'm talking about the three hours in the box on game day.
We are talking about the little snippets the AFL release on the website here right? It's hardly Year of the Dogs. I'm not even sure the audio is always genuine and matched to the correct moments in the game.
Watch the 2019 one and see if you think it is a good reflection of what Hardwick would do in the box.
There's two common themes in this discussion. One is a dislike of Scott and the other is that saying someone else is a better match day coach is somehow disparaging Hardwick as a coach.
The reality is it is one small aspect of coaching. Hardwick is a great coach but he isn't a great match day coach. Buddy Franklin is a great footballer but he isn't a great overhead mark. They both have other strengths that they do much better than anyone else and that is what makes them elite in their field.
Our success has not been built out of tactical manipulation. It has been built on devising a game style that is difficult to counter and achieving total and fanatical buy in from the players to execute it relentlessly. Everyone in the competition knows exactly what we are going to do every time we play but we do it to such a high level and with such commitment that few teams can stand up to it when we are at our best. People can bang on about opinion v fact but if you watch and understand the game there is no questioning that.
McCrea and Leppa coach the enemy it was a feel-good story at the start of the season but that's where it stops. I Hate the filth and hope they go out in straight sets.
Most of the coach's work is done before game day. There are some moves you can pull, adjustments in tactics etc. You can develop specific plans for opposition teams and individuals. But great teams are forged over time, by great coaches.
Another thing Dimma has over Scott is the love of his players. All the best coaches are at least revered, if not adored and basically worshipped by their charges. Norm Smith. Kanga Kennedy. Yabby. Sheeds. Lethal. Clarko. DImma. Their men would eat glass for them.
There are others who succeed while perhaps not inspiring such devotion. Parkin comes to mind as someone you felt his players respected, trusted and listened to without full-on loving him. But he insisted they work and study and become better, more rounded individuals. The best coaches shape people, not just players. I can't recall hearing anyone say "Chris Scott has made me a better man."
Another thing Dimma has over Scott is the love of his players. All the best coaches are at least revered, if not adored and basically worshipped by their charges. Norm Smith. Kanga Kennedy. Yabby. Sheeds. Lethal. Clarko. DImma. Their men would eat glass for them.
There are others who succeed while perhaps not inspiring such devotion. Parkin comes to mind as someone you felt his players respected, trusted and listened to without full-on loving him. But he insisted they work and study and become better, more rounded individuals. The best coaches shape people, not just players. I can't recall hearing anyone say "Chris Scott has made me a better man."
As long as it's not Cats, Pies, Dees, Lions
That leaves 2, Swans and Freo (freo I reckon will beat the dogs tonight).
GF Tip Swwans V Cats
Swans for the flag.
That leaves 2, Swans and Freo (freo I reckon will beat the dogs tonight).
GF Tip Swwans V Cats
Swans for the flag.
i don't see any difference to what every other coach in the comp does.They implement their own game style much like what Dimma has done in the past but you credit others as better match day coaches and in this instance Scott yet facts are Dimma has a 100% record in finals over Scott.
You raised a 10 year journey to a premiership, I'm talking about the three hours in the box on game day.
We are talking about the little snippets the AFL release on the website here right? It's hardly Year of the Dogs. I'm not even sure the audio is always genuine and matched to the correct moments in the game.
Watch the 2019 one and see if you think it is a good reflection of what Hardwick would do in the box.
There's two common themes in this discussion. One is a dislike of Scott and the other is that saying someone else is a better match day coach is somehow disparaging Hardwick as a coach.
The reality is it is one small aspect of coaching. Hardwick is a great coach but he isn't a great match day coach. Buddy Franklin is a great footballer but he isn't a great overhead mark. They both have other strengths that they do much better than anyone else and that is what makes them elite in their field.
Our success has not been built out of tactical manipulation. It has been built on devising a game style that is difficult to counter and achieving total and fanatical buy in from the players to execute it relentlessly. Everyone in the competition knows exactly what we are going to do every time we play but we do it to such a high level and with such commitment that few teams can stand up to it when we are at our best. People can bang on about opinion v fact but if you watch and understand the game there is no questioning that.
End of story.
To lose consistently in important matches the same way would suggest a coach that doesn't learn?
Chris Scott's legacy will most likely be decided this year.
Same. They were great to watch and played tough but fair. Easy to admire. Their backline was phenomonal. Midfield the same. Came across as humble.
Polar opposite to the modern Geelong.
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