Sydney Stack | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
  • IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.

Sydney Stack

CarnTheTiges

This is a REAL tiger
Mar 8, 2004
25,472
11,365
Victoria
This was actually his first preseason before a preseason. It's unfair for posters to keep implying he's making the same mistakes by framing this as his 4th preseason.

Year 1: Wasn't drafted yet, then did everything right.

Year 2: Ankle injury, couldn't run.

Year 3: Pandemic, world shuts down.

Year 4: He makes progress.
I seem to remember that he turned up pre pandemic out of shape, and it was touch and go as to whether he would be selected for Rd 1 against Carlton. He’d also recovered sufficiently from the ankle injury to participate in the VFL GF. He doesn’t like training, he’s not the first, he backs his ability to get it right in the real stuff. Great if he can do that, but it does make people question his level of commitment and professionalism.
 

bigwow

Tiger Legend
Jul 24, 2003
8,543
6,217
Melbourne
KB played 400 games and kicked nearly 800 goals, and was a noted hater of training.
Always save your best for the real thing.
 
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TigerMasochist

Walks softly carries a big stick.
Jul 13, 2003
25,853
11,845
If Stacky runs himself into full premium AFL level fitness by the start of the season n has a great year, then that's fantastic.
If he struggles to get his fitness up to the levels required n spends another half season building up through the magoos before stepping into a strong second half of the season, then it's still good for us, just not quite fantastic.
If he struggles all year n perhaps even drops out because he can't be *smile* bothered n decides to do something else with his life, meh. See ya. Didn't cost us much draft wise, didn't cost us much overall salary n fines wise. We move on n try again, same as every year for every club. There's always a cuppla shoulda, woulda, coulda players through the comp every year. Same as there's always a cuppla " how the *smile* did the competition ignore n miss this bloke " types coming through the system.
 
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tigerman

It's Tiger Time
Mar 17, 2003
24,347
19,921
KB played 400 games and kicked nearly 800 goals, and was a noted hater of training.
Always save your best for the real thing.
KB did a lot of sprint training in the off season, might have even ran in some races.
 
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eZyT

Tiger Legend
Jun 28, 2019
21,545
26,115
KB played 400 games and kicked nearly 800 goals, and was a noted hater of training.
Always save your best for the real thing.

I often wonder if Paul Vanderhaaar could smoke durries and eat chicco rolls and hold down CHF these days?

I reckon there will always be athletic freaks who, despite the memes about sweat and hard work and professionalism, will just have huge heart and lungs, great big hands and see the game in the top .1%ile,

and a capacity to star for 2 hours a week for maybe 6-8 years?

Unlikely they'll be mids, but how far does someone like Tom Lynch or Bailey Fritch run in a game (not rhetoric, how far?)

I dunno? might be completely wrong? what do you reckon @The Big Richo? do that species still exist in any form?
 

TrialByVideo

HailBGale!
Mar 1, 2015
4,439
8,575
Reading this thread .......No wonder Syd is struggling to get around at a decent clip ..... he's got the weight of everyone on PRE strapped to his back, the poor bastard!
Tipping some of them actual weights would have Mick Nolan covered btw:peepwall
 
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caesar

Tiger Legend
Feb 9, 2015
8,041
21,772
KB played 400 games and kicked nearly 800 goals, and was a noted hater of training.
Always save your best for the real thing.

Yeah but KB had Tommy T as coach who loved flogging his players for 3 hours in the mud on a Friday night before a game, who'd like that?

I played a round of golf with John Pitura many years ago who said it was insane, he was already pretty much stuffed come game day.

Got Tommy results though but wouldn't these days.
 
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Redford

Tiger Legend
Dec 18, 2002
34,913
27,145
Tel Aviv
The off season Abyss is in full swing….

Khawaja…and the equally average Mitchell’s again…Big Bore League… B LEAGUE soccer…Nothing Basketball League….polo and the annual Stack pre season debates.

Oh Abyss how I hate you. At least there’s the Kellogg’s surf lifesaving series I suppose.

How many days till round one ???
 
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Redford

Tiger Legend
Dec 18, 2002
34,913
27,145
Tel Aviv
under 100 I think.

I hate this time of year too.
December is the worst of The Abyss months I reckon. Once you get to New Year’s Day you’re over the hump and moving back down the other side, but until then it’s hard going.
 
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TigerForce

Tiger Legend
Apr 26, 2004
71,316
22,231
57
The off season Abyss is in full swing….

Khawaja…and the equally average Mitchell’s again…Big Bore League… B LEAGUE soccer…Nothing Basketball League….polo and the annual Stack pre season debates.

Oh Abyss how I hate you. At least there’s the Kellogg’s surf lifesaving series I suppose.

How many days till round one ???
Yep. I've only got the NFL (no matter how sh!t the Steelers get), college football and basketball. NCAAF lasts until early Jan, NFL until early Feb and NCAAB to early March when it's ready for the Tiges to start pumping.
 
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Redford

Tiger Legend
Dec 18, 2002
34,913
27,145
Tel Aviv
Yep. I've only got the NFL (no matter how sh!t the Steelers get), college football and basketball. NCAAF lasts until early Jan, NFL until early Feb and NCAAB to early March when it's ready for the Tiges to start pumping.
Yep. Spot on. I turn to the NFL, NBA, NHL, EPL and get to the golf club as much as possible.
 

TigerForce

Tiger Legend
Apr 26, 2004
71,316
22,231
57
Yep. Spot on. I turn to the NFL, NBA, NHL, EPL and get to the golf club as much as possible.
Sport in this country has been boring since the golden days of cricket ended ~ mid 80s. Just wish cricket was as popular as the MLB during our summer.

As for Stacky, at least Jacky G said that "We know our best footy stacks up"......might be an omen. :))
 
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Redford

Tiger Legend
Dec 18, 2002
34,913
27,145
Tel Aviv
Sport in this country has been boring since the golden days of cricket ended ~ mid 80s. Just wish cricket was as popular as the MLB during our summer.

As for Stacky, at least Jacky G said that "We know our best footy stacks up"......might be an omen. :))
Exactly. Used to love cricket as a kid. Still like test series’ v England, India and SA but everything else I couldn’t care less about especially contrived phoney rubbish like T20. Apart from playing golf I find the Australian Summer sport scene boring as hell.

Stack’s just one of those guys who isn’t built with any natural, mid to high-floor fitness base like many others. Others that can take 8 weeks off and barely miss a beat or get back into it pretty quickly - even without doing much whilst on a break. He needs to keep moving all the time and relies a lot on in-season game time to get up to spec. His natural fitness base seems much lower than most but once the season gets going he’s fine.

I used to play with a few guys like that. Not fat or overweight but they’d blow up at pre season training for weeks on end, year after year. But by round 3 they were fine for the rest of the year, all the way through finals. Rinse and repeat the next year.
 
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eZyT

Tiger Legend
Jun 28, 2019
21,545
26,115
Not at the current levels of rotation I wouldn't have thought.

It would take a pretty remarkable athlete to be able to generate the 12-18kms of running, combined with the repeat efforts etc... that most players need to produce for you to be a good team. Even the key forwards and backs are generally in that range and if you're not then you can bet the opposition are going to make you chase and chase and chase.

For example, every team is aware of the tracking data of every other team and they will look to use that to their advantage. If a defender has lower numbers in intensity then a team will try and rotate targets through them and make them blow up. If a team tries to use the player they call the strap, the last defender who sits behind the play, then teams will try and force a weaker runner back to kill the opportunity to split the ground. We changed things with Rance and Grimes, two hugely capable runners in that spot so now those guys have to be players like Tom Jonas who is as good a runner as Port have on their list.

The thing with someone like Stack is when they talk about him being a little behind in the level required at the moment, he is still going to be miles ahead of most players from 10 or 15 years ago and before in terms of intensity. In the past a great runner like a Robert Harvey would grind out similar distances but he would do it like a half marathon runner, at a steady, consistent pace.

Now, we expect players to have intensity in their running. It's about hard, repeat efforts, not just covering huge distance. Training is rarely done over more than a km or two in distance at the most, all about repeat intensity of smaller distances.

A lot of people have the capacity to run distance off little training but it's impossible to do high intensity without the work. For example, if you were to try and go to the oval and do a 10 minute run at a comfortable pace, you'd likely get through it without too much discomfort, even with zero training beforehand. If we were to cover the same distance you ran in that 10 minutes, but ask you to do it in intervals where you run hard for a short distance then recover, and repeat, then someone without training will be the Sheriff of Struggletown really quickly.

The thing with Stack is he can be really fit but not intensity running fit. Being intensity running fit takes mental strength and a willingness to push through enormous physical discomfort. For whatever reason, a lot of the indigenous boys struggle with it and take a bit longer to build the capacity.

The reason I'm optimistic with Stack is not everyone can play footy really well at an AFL level like he can, but anyone can get themselves super fit. If they want to.

great insights thanks

my next question is (and it might be a silly question),

how is fitness built up over multiple preseasons? is aerobic capacity like a ratchet? Is haemoglobin a cumulative substance? or do they simply never let themselves get as unfit as they were the previous year?
 
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eZyT

Tiger Legend
Jun 28, 2019
21,545
26,115
December is the worst of The Abyss months I reckon. Once you get to New Year’s Day you’re over the hump and moving back down the other side, but until then it’s hard going.

agree 100%. im not really into cricket, though will watch most of the Boxing Day test, and on balance, I hate the in-laws and landfill season.

NYD to PreseasonDreams@Wangaratta is only 6 weeks, and you can pass the time with a few novels, margaritas, and maybe a tiger premature-autobiography if we are lucky (Im hanging for the release of The Sonz - the journey begins; an annotated authorised photographic collection of Tylers first cockatiels)
 
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123cups

Tiger Champion
May 1, 2016
3,099
4,076
great insights thanks

my next question is (and it might be a silly question),

how is fitness built up over multiple preseasons? is aerobic capacity like a ratchet? Is haemoglobin a cumulative substance? or do they simply never let themselves get as unfit as they were the previous year?

I can't answer your specific questions, but one thing I can add here is the specific type of fitness you're after is a lot easier to get back to after you've already made your body do the physiological changes required in the past.

If you stop using certain neurons, your body is like "why waste energy keeping this old thing alive?!" and turns off the lights. It's expensive paying the electricity bill on a highway that's never used.

So you go back to training and your body starts whingeing "this is hard! How do I rebuild this highway again? Oh yeah" and it rebuilds that extra neuron a lot quicker. The workers still live nearby, and most haven't found other jobs yet. They eventually forget their old job, so time is a factor.

Muscle fibre ratios are another example of something that recalibrates more quickly the second time as well.

If the body has built up a specific type of fitness before, it's faster and easier to do it again the next year, even if you've lost it.

I'm not sure how this plays into club training programs
 
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turk-d-tiger

Welcome to Richmond Football Club - Daniel Rioli
Dec 1, 2007
5,235
4,508
melbourne
KB played 400 games and kicked nearly 800 goals, and was a noted hater of training.
Always save your best for the real thing.
He is also on record as saying that he would not have played 10 games if playing in todays games

Maybe we should get Stack to take up smoking on the ground like Bones McGhie