2022 Draft Thread

[momentai]

Yes those picks did build our flag team, thats no question, but we didn't play finals until the 4th year after getting Dusty, that was Jack and Sheddas 7th year.

This is a well trodden path for the draft BUT by doing that, we waste the remaining years of our current group, whilst getting mediocre first round draft picks. We would have to fall completely off a cliff, to get a few years of top 5 draft picks. We are aiming to do this rebuild / reset backwards. Ie. we have all the supporting cast, we just don't have those top line midfielders anymore (we only have Prestia) so we are looking to do it via trade.

Just because its a different strategy to the 1 you want doesn't mean its bad. Focusing everything on the draft won't get us close to flag with our current group, and that means we waste the remaining years of Cotch, Jack, Lynch, Martin, Grimes, Tarrant, Broad, McIntosh, Pickett etc by being also rans in the next few years. To take that step from finalists, to premiership contenders we need to add quality NOW, not in 3-4 years once they've matured.

I understand your concern on the talls particularly, and we all have the same concerns about who is coming in for Jack, but if our plan is to go for Marshall in 2 years as a FA then this will be genius and will keep us in premiership contention for at least another 5 years. Don't be expecting too many top 10 draft picks during that time.

‘Waste the remaining years’.
For the last two years we have been expected to make top 4. This year we were rather lucky to finish the H&A in 7th.

There are no guarantees that two good players, one with all sorts of health red flags, are going to make us fortified against ‘wasting’ years.

You are also forgetting the development we might expect from the great field of Mids and other utilities, we were dealt last year.

I agree we should be after both GWS players but giving away a future Ist is still not a good move by any measure.

 

[bullus_hit]

If it makes it easier to accept, just think of the club trading for a pick 2 and a pick 7 but they have already done their apprenticeship and are ready to go.

They have also done their apprenticeships in reconstructive surgery, next year these blokes will be worth a fraction of their current value, buying high & selling low not my thing.

 

[mrposhman]

‘Waste the remaining years’.
For the last two years we have been expected to make top 4. This year we were rather lucky to finish the H&A in 7th.

There are no guarantees that two good players, one with all sorts of health red flags, are going to make us fortified against ‘wasting’ years.

You are also forgetting the development we might expect from the great field of Mids and other utilities, we were dealt last year.

I agree we should be after both GWS players but giving away a future Ist is still not a good move by any measure.

There seems to be a narrative from some that were we "lucky" to finish 7th, despite the fact that we lost 4 games by under a goal and we drew another. I'd actually say we were unlucky not to finish top 4 rather than lucky to finish 7th. Thats a bit of a strange take IMO and rewriting history. I don't believe it would take too much to move up from where we were this year. Remember we were comfortable against Carlton and then lost Prestia which also led to that drop off in the 4th. In the Geelong game (one of those under 1 goal games), we also lost Prestia early. You don't think that having players like Taranto / Hopper would have helped in those games?

I'm not forgetting the development of the players from last year (of which only 1 is a clear mid). Sonsie will still play a lot of footy next year, and will be guided through his next few years before he then takes over from Prestia alongside Taranto and Hopper as Cotch and Prestia drop out of that core midfield rotation.

I don't se how you can have such a clear conclusion on "giving away a future 1st is still not a good move by any measure". Only hindsight will tell us that. if we go on and win another couple of flags because we made these trades, was it "not a good measure" to trade the future 1st away?

 

[Tortured Tiger]

They have also done their apprenticeships in reconstructive surgery, next year these blokes will be worth a fraction of their current value, buying high & selling low not my thing.

That is a ridiculous comment, you have no idea if that is true or not, you are better than that. We could draft any kid and they could do two ACL's and never play a game, every trade or draft selection can be a lottery.

 

[Cooper O'Reilly]

Matt Rendall saying North will take Cadman at pick 1.

Also said that Ashcroft is the only real stand out and that clubs will have very different top 10 prospects due to evenness of the draft.

They were talking about how pick 14 for example, is worth the same amount of points this year as next, but next year’s pick 14 is worth more in terms of the quality of player.

He did qualify it by saying next year’s draft is always better

 

[bullus_hit]

That is a ridiculous comment, you have no idea if that is true or not, you are better than that. We could draft any kid and they could do two ACL's and never play a game, every trade or draft selection can be a lottery.

Both players have injury histories, Taranto has had shoulder surgery which in all likelihood has blunted his impact as an overhead marking target. Hopper played 7 games last year & didn't set the world on fire in his comeback games. With all this taken into account their respective value is nothing like pick 2 & pick 7, that's just revisionism done to justify the unreasonable demands of GWS.

 

[MD Jazz]

yeah we know, we hear ya. But you sound like that ancient old guy who says you should never go into debt for anything, ever. Save up and pay for your house with cash. Its a valid view. But its old fashioned and there are plenty of other ways to do it.

Debt is fine. As long as you have a good plan, and can pay it back.

You say colossal mistake and should never happen, I'm fine with it. Its all about the deal.

Ha ha. Ain't that the truth. The father-in-law is a migrant who has done well, but he can be very conservative in his views on debt.

All about risk/reward, as long as you do our due diligence and have a clear strategy. The club hasn't done much wrong in this regard in the last decade. I'll back them to make the best decision for the club.

 

[momentai]

There are two wings to this argument.
One is that the players themselves are not worth the risk of giving up 3, 1st rounders plus, because of both past and future injury concerns, arising in both players.

And the other has to do with the gamble involved in giving up a future 1st when we have no way of knowing the value of the opportunity we are giving away. IMO It should never happen and we are all about to see if the club agrees.

I am not going to go through the particulars again, but of course we will all be pleased if both players can contribute to another flag next year.

My point is that you have to manage risk
and that on both counts the idea that we should be giving up 3 early picks ++ in the circumstances, is a poor one.

Just on last years recruiting all of those recruits have shown enough to suggest they will become very good players for us.
All have speed, marking and disposal skills.
Sonsie yes certainly but from what I saw all have the ability to become first rate Mids, Gibcus included.

 

[Tortured Tiger]

Both players have injury histories, Taranto has had shoulder surgery which in all likelihood has blunted his impact as an overhead marking target. Hopper played 7 games last year & didn't set the world on fire in his comeback games. With all this taken into account their respective value is nothing like pick 2 & pick 7, that's just revisionism done to justify the unreasonable demands

Both players have injury histories, Taranto has had shoulder surgery which in all likelihood has blunted his impact as an overhead marking target. Hopper played 7 games last year & didn't set the world on fire in his comeback games. With all this taken into account their respective value is nothing like pick 2 & pick 7, that's just revisionism done to justify the unreasonable demands of GWS.

Taranto has played 114 games since 2017, hardly a crock and Hopper also had an excellent games tally before this year. Most players get injuries, look back at Trent Cotchin, even some of the top draft picks like Wardlaw and Tsatas have missed quite a bit of footy. I know you are disappointed at the draft strategy Richmond are going with but you are really grasping at straws with some of your later comments. It sounds like you are hoping these players do get injured just to prove your point which is pretty sad.

 

[mrposhman]

There are two wings to this argument.
One is that the players themselves are not worth the risk of giving up 3, 1st rounders plus, because of both past and future injury concerns, arising in both players.

And the other has to do with the gamble involved in giving up a future 1st when we have no way of knowing the value of the opportunity we are giving away. IMO It should never happen and we are all about to see if the club agrees.

I am not going to go through the particulars again, but of course we will all be pleased if both players can contribute to another flag next year.

My point is that you have to manage risk
and that on both counts the idea that we should be giving up 3 early picks in the circumstances, is a poor one.

Just on last years recruiting all of those recruits have shown enough to suggest they will become very good players for us.
All have speed and disposal skills.
Sonsie yes certainly but from what I saw all have the ability to become first rate Mids, Gibcus included.

You think Gibcus is a first rate mid??? Wowzers.

There is risk in everything we do. If next years first is pick 18 we wouldn't be able to do a deal that we might be able to do this year. Sure it could drop into a top 10, which then would look like a poor decision but any trade with a future pick will be based on risk / reward based on what we know. The likelihood at this stage, is adding Taranto and Hopper to our list should mean we finish higher than we did in 22 but there are no guarantees to that obviously.

 

[momentai]

Ha ha. Ain't that the truth. The father-in-law is a migrant who has done well, but he can be very conservative in his views on debt.

All about risk/reward, as long as you do our due diligence and have a clear strategy. The club hasn't done much wrong in this regard in the last decade. I'll back them to make the best decision for the club.

He has done well working from the ground up and he is concerned about your over spending of his daughters inheritance.
Mmm sounds like the basis for a sequel to Gone with the wind.

 

[bullus_hit]

Taranto has played 114 games since 2017, hardly a crock and Hopper also had an excellent games tally before this year. Most players get injuries, look back at Trent Cotchin, even some of the top draft picks like Wardlaw and Tsatas have missed quite a bit of footy. I know you are disappointed at the draft strategy Richmond are going with but you are really grasping at straws with some of your later comments. It sounds like you are hoping these players do get injured just to prove your point which is pretty sad.

Not at all, but if you don't factor in the injury history into their trade price you increase your chances of losing out in the long run. Nothing against Taranto & Hopper as players but not for 3 top 20 picks, that's overs & could get considerably worse if we fail to finish top 4 next year. Classic short termism made worse by the fact we grabbed 3 flankers last year. The order of operations doesn't compute.

 

[turk-d-tiger]

Knobel a decent target, might be too late however. Harry Barnett is probably the best pure ruckman but I doubt he lasts until the third round. I think we're putting all the eggs into the Taranto/Hopper basket, some career defining calls being made this year.

Where do you see knobel being drafted ?
i would have thought he would be in that range (keeping in mind i have not seen any junior games this year due to commitments )

 

[Tortured Tiger]

Not at all, but if you don't factor in the injury history into their trade price you increase your chances of losing out in the long run. Nothing against Taranto & Hopper as players but not for 3 top 20 picks, that's overs & could get considerably worse if we fail to finish top 4 next year. Classic short termism made worse by the fact we grabbed 3 flankers last year. The order of operations doesn't compute.

Well it looks like it is happening so like the rest of us I hope you can accept that, wish the new boys all the best and just hope the professionals have done the right thing.

 

[momentai]

You think Gibcus is a first rate mid??? Wowzers.

There is risk in everything we do. If next years first is pick 18 we wouldn't be able to do a deal that we might be able to do this year. Sure it could drop into a top 10, which then would look like a poor decision but any trade with a future pick will be based on risk / reward based on what we know. The likelihood at this stage, is adding Taranto and Hopper to our list should mean we finish higher than we did in 22 but there are no guarantees to that obviously.

It is a big day for you Posh but I have to ask if you are you losing your grip. I didn’t say Gibcus is a first rate mid. I said I believe he has the ability to become one.

 

[turk-d-tiger]

Apparently GWS aren't after a ruckman so not sure what is happening with Soldo if anything.

Posturing i would say

 

[bullus_hit]

Where do you see knobel being drafted ?
i would have thought he would be in that range (keeping in mind i have not seen any junior games this year due to commitments )

I expect him to go in the 30-50 range, if we're left with pick 45 we may get lucky but then again, we may miss out entirely. Lemmey another who is in the 30-50 range but there are multiple clubs sniffing around so that one could also be scuttled.

 

[mrposhman]

It is a big day for you Posh but I have to ask if you are you losing your grip. I didn’t say Gibcus is a first rate mid. I said I believe he has the ability to become one.

No way we try and turn Gibcus into a mid. Will be our future CHB.

 

[turk-d-tiger]

That is a ridiculous comment, you have no idea if that is true or not, you are better than that. We could draft any kid and they could do two ACL's and never play a game, every trade or draft selection can be a lottery.

Or we could draft the next Paddy Dow , Richard Tambling or Toumpas

The way im looking at this / these trades is we just missed out on a top 2 finish with the stupid games we lost
Crows , norf , Gold Coast etc

taranto & Hopper would have made a difference and i have no doubt these 2 boys are good enough to play 7-8 years similar to Prestia who is now about to enter his 7th year with richmond

 

[bullus_hit]

No way we try and turn Gibcus into a mid. Will be our future CHB.

I'm aiming higher with Gibcus, still a long shot but he didn't look too bad in the forward line this year.