Enough of the Dutton bashing. You really don’t think he’s intelligent enough to understand what’s involved here? And I’m no great fan of the man but you’re showing total bias if that’s what you really think
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IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.
Indigenous Voice Yes or No?
- Thread starter eZyT
- Start date
It's a bizarre and fantastical take, almost conspiracy theory level BS.
It's a separate advisory chamber Tiga - maybe you should read up on it a bit more.
I disagree Ezy.
Things look uncontroversial, as when anyone raises objections, the first thing people do is just to pile on and call folks racist etc. I saw one conversation (not on PRE) where the first person said they'd vote no, the second person responded that the first "must support genocide" .
It's that type of comment that can skew opinion polls - people find it easier to stay silent than have an argument or their character assassinated.
I think the real vote will get up, but I expect it will be a lot closer than you suggest.
Fair enough General
I agree opinion polls are fraught, and richmond obsessives are a questionable representation of Australia, but i reckon this one is on the money - an anonymous poll on an anonymous forum is a pretty safe space to register your opinion?
I do have a demonstrable history of optimism
I will take the > 60 Yes Vote into Richmond GF > 60 double as soon as the bookies put up a market
I do think people should always feel safe and secure to express their POV,
Provided the POV isnt hateful and isnt utter bullcrap packaged as the truth.
If anything, i think the YES vote will increase steadily towards August. As voters get across the facts, voting NO will get harder to do.
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The problem here is, who is "we".
For too long it has been the whitefella controlled governments who have determined what happens to blackfellas. For too long a very large proportion of the funding for anything to do with Indigenous Australians has gone to fund white bureaucracies.
What the Voice provides for is Indigenous representation on issues which affect them. There are huge problems, and what did they follow? The white conceived and implemented intervention in the NT. Yeah, that went well, solved nothing. Time to give the Indigenous Australians some self determination and maybe even some power, even if only soft power.
This is not a panacea for all the problems, the only people talking as if it is are those using this straw man to oppose the Voice.
This is a first step and should provide some hope to Indigenous communities who sorely need hope.
In terms of detail, I'll leave that to Noel Pearson:
All the talk on detail is a diversion deliberately designed to derail the process.
DS
PS: Ezy, it's Albanese, sorry, but I used to be a teacher, I notice spelling!
Furks me Sin. Linda Burney is the Federal Minister for Indigenous Australians in Albos's current Australian Government. Do you have a Minister of Non Indigenous Australians in Albo's current Government ?. About time we did. Referendums have failed in the past because the Australian of past denied it because of their heritage. These days a different immigration scenario so it will be very interesting as there shall be a lot who will not understand the situation.
Whitlam’s National Aboriginal Consultative Committee got axed by the Fraser government, Fraser's National Aboriginal Conference got axed by the Hawke government, Hawke's Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Commission got axed by the Howard government...................Anyone see the trend.
A First Nations Voice to Parliament, will form part of our Constitution, I can't see anything wrong with that, because it will mean that they won't be forgotten like they have been in the almost 20 years since the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Commission was axed.
A First Nations Voice to Parliament, will form part of our Constitution, I can't see anything wrong with that, because it will mean that they won't be forgotten like they have been in the almost 20 years since the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Commission was axed.
You mean the same ATSIC that was dismantled because of corruption allegations?
I think the issue hasn't been because they aren't represented constitutionally, it's because they've basically had a bunch of cave men responsible for the management of the portfolio, given its been amalgamated into the Office of PM and Cabinet since. (Yes I know there's been a minister as well, like Phil Ruddock, Mal Brough. Etc)
I think the issue hasn't been because they aren't represented constitutionally, it's because they've basically had a bunch of cave men responsible for the management of the portfolio, given its been amalgamated into the Office of PM and Cabinet since. (Yes I know there's been a minister as well, like Phil Ruddock, Mal Brough. Etc)
We do have a Minister for the indigenous population who have been here for 60,000 years, who lost their land by force from settlers, who were not recognised as humans of equal standing in our constitution until not much more than 50 years ago, who had thousands of their children forcibly separated from their families, who have education and health outcomes well below the national average and incarceration rates far higher.
And so we should
I hope that one day we don’t need one
We have a Minister for Social services who deals with those citizens eligible for social services. Do you want a Minister for those not needing Social Services as well?
Yes there were corruption allegations.
First nation people had been well served by the universally respected and inaugural Chairperson of ATSIC Lowitja O'Donoghue.
Government intervention could've sorted out ATSIC, removed it's Chairperson, and made any necessary reforms.
The abolishment of ATSIC was the easy way out and a cop out, First Nation people and their regions have been worse off because of it's demise.
Suffice to say we have a difficult , complex and decive topic
We have similar things happen in North America , South America , New Zealand , Africa with Colonial powers and native peoples
I don’t believe we have a shining light for a model to take everyone forward , but I suspect there a bits we can take from NZ and bits from America and bring them together with our own ideas
After staying in an indigenous community in 1999 , I took more interest in all thing indigenous , started watching NITV and more recently my son has married an indigenous woman and they have had a child together
I grew up in very white areas in Melb and then moved to Canberra for work 40 yrs ago , so had virtually no contact with indigenous people in day to day life , just the horror stlnipoets we see on the nightly news . I’m pretty sure that’s a very big cohort
In December last year I started work in the National Indigenous Australians Agency . I have done several lots of Indigenous Awareness training courses in the past but whoa this was one just dwarfed the rest . It was confronting , I didn’t agree with bits of it . I’d say to anyone , take the time to listen and read some of the stuff that makes up our past
I had a mate not long travel thru Alice and then up thru the Kimberley’s , then Darwin and he was saying it was bad before this stuff hit the media
And there’s the problem , there are big enough numbers of indigenous in regional and remote Australia that can and are making life hell for everybody
We blame the government (easy whipping boy) and we blame the indigenous communities .
In ‘99 when staying in a community , I mentioned Community Development Employment Program CDEP , lol I was chucked in a car and shown some of the good stuff they done with the money from the program .
It was good and not all government money wasted , but didn’t solve all problems
We need new ideas and initiatives
Can the voice be a part of that ?
I hope so
We have similar things happen in North America , South America , New Zealand , Africa with Colonial powers and native peoples
I don’t believe we have a shining light for a model to take everyone forward , but I suspect there a bits we can take from NZ and bits from America and bring them together with our own ideas
After staying in an indigenous community in 1999 , I took more interest in all thing indigenous , started watching NITV and more recently my son has married an indigenous woman and they have had a child together
I grew up in very white areas in Melb and then moved to Canberra for work 40 yrs ago , so had virtually no contact with indigenous people in day to day life , just the horror stlnipoets we see on the nightly news . I’m pretty sure that’s a very big cohort
In December last year I started work in the National Indigenous Australians Agency . I have done several lots of Indigenous Awareness training courses in the past but whoa this was one just dwarfed the rest . It was confronting , I didn’t agree with bits of it . I’d say to anyone , take the time to listen and read some of the stuff that makes up our past
I had a mate not long travel thru Alice and then up thru the Kimberley’s , then Darwin and he was saying it was bad before this stuff hit the media
And there’s the problem , there are big enough numbers of indigenous in regional and remote Australia that can and are making life hell for everybody
We blame the government (easy whipping boy) and we blame the indigenous communities .
In ‘99 when staying in a community , I mentioned Community Development Employment Program CDEP , lol I was chucked in a car and shown some of the good stuff they done with the money from the program .
It was good and not all government money wasted , but didn’t solve all problems
We need new ideas and initiatives
Can the voice be a part of that ?
I hope so
This question to me typifies the issue we have. (that's not meant to be a criticism Tigerfan)
Like Tigerfan I think many of our population don't understand what it means and part of it is the fact the term is not very specific, it is a bit "wooly". I don't 100% know the detail but as I understand it means that Indigenous peoples will have a voice in the process of decision making as those decisions affect them as a population group. They will have a say, a constitutionally based process in the consultation.
Unless we make it clearer this referendum is in danger imo.
Good question.
I personally dont like the shortened term 'The Voice' - it sounds like a character in The Handmaids Tale.
but, its a term conceived by collaboration of blackfellas in The Uluru Statement from The Heart
Read about that pretty quickly here
Uluru Statement from the Heart - Wikipedia
Do some research, and dont quote me,
But My understanding is
Its an advisory panel
Its enshrined in the constitution so not subject to the whims and fashions of goverment.
I dont think the details of the mechanisms and composition are established yet,
But expect it would be an assembly of blackfellas, elected by blackfellas, who fly to canberra when parliament sits, have a corridor in parliament house,
I imagine not unlike ATSIC, but permanent and in closer proximity to law making?
They'lle ideally get consulted by elected politicians on legislation affecting black fellas.
Sort of like a collection of coal lobbyists in the current model, but black and with names and faces, and ideally, with altruistic intent.
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Good onya for getting out there CH.
I agree Definately need a new approach.
I spent 3 months in very remote North Australia just last year - Cape, Gulf, Arnhem Land, Kimberley.
I saw the confronting tragedy of grog,
But can put my hand on my heart and say THE only acutely negative direct experience i had, was with white fellas.
Had a proper white supremisist crew on meth try to set fire to our camp in the night!!!
Good question.
I personally dont like the shortened term 'The Voice' - it sounds like a character in The Handmaids Tale.
but, its a term conceived by collaboration of blackfellas in The Uluru Statement from The Heart
Read about that pretty quickly here
Uluru Statement from the Heart - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
Do some research, and dont quote me,
But My understanding is
Its an advisory panel
Its enshrined in the constitution so not subject to the whims and fashions of goverment.
I dont think the details of the mechanisms and composition are established yet,
But expect it would be an assembly of blackfellas, elected by blackfellas, who fly to canberra when parliament sits, have a corridor in parliament house,
I imagine not unlike ATSIC, but permanent and in closer proximity to law making?
They'lle ideally get consulted by elected politicians on legislation affecting black fellas.
Sort of like a collection of coal lobbyists in the current model, but black and with names and faces, and ideally, with altruistic intent.
I think there lies the problem of any such poll, until the mechanisms and compositions are established its almost impossible to vote on, whilst the vast majority i hope and suspect want good and fair solutions, until a model is established its almost impossible to understand support for said 'Voice'.
It would be a waste of time and money to fully establish The Voice before Australia agrees they want it.
The main mechanics of how The Voice looks and works is there IMO
If we were asked
'Do you want a bag of lollies?'
Id vote yes,
Rather than saying 'how many snakes/milk bottles/teeth/bananas will there be? Will there be any freckles?'
There has to be a degree of faith that
1. The intent of The Voice is good and
2. We have checks, balances and scrutiny in our democracy to ensure the intent is realised
