Coronavirus

[AngryAnt]

Vaccine Passports Spur Explosion In Vaccinations—And Protests—As Europe Cracks Down On Vaccine Holdouts

France and Italy have ramped up pressure to get vaccinated against Covid-19 by imposing mandates and broad vaccine passports that will make life harder for those who remain unvaccinated.

www.forbes.com

We should have this as part of our future plan along with carrots (IMO)

We also need to work on the ability to deal with AZ clots.

Yes... I think they are getting better at treating the clots. Interesting we've had deaths from Delta in NSW, about 6 so far I think? It's still a dangerous disease.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

I don't get why all the messaging has been brand based.

The facts are what they are. Most dog owners would choose not to feed their animals with the Bulk Coarse Beef brand.

Denmark has stopped administering AZ completely.

 

[Coburgtiger]

I get your sentiment, and kinda agree.

But it's already a cat that can't be stuffed back into the bag.

And in reality, it's not just a brand name.

It's like if you needed to build a shelf, and I said 'You can have this Mikita drill in three weeks, or this Ozito drill in 3 months. And the Ozito drill has a one in a hundred thousand chance of killing you."

I'd take option 1 every day of the week.

Unless option 1 was not available, and I really needed the shelf. Then you take what you can get.

But the brand matters even more if you're offered Sinovac's AA powered Tonka My First Drill.

 

[Baloo]

The facts are what they are. Most dog owners would choose not to feed their animals with the Bulk Coarse Beef brand.

On the flip side I doubt many know or care which companies yearly flu shot they are getting.

 

[mrposhman]

I don't get why all the messaging has been brand based.

just call it a Covid vaccine, and tell people to get it ASAP.

take the *smile* label off if need be.

If someone has a heart attack and needs stents implanted, they dont go window shopping for which brand they want.

they just get a *smile* stent.

Agree but its out there now and the media aren't helping.

Headline story on 9 news last night was a woman that was intensive care due to blood clotting on her brain from the AZ vaccine. So she is one of the 90 odd that have incurred clotting (only 6 have died so far). This is out of 6.3m doses. The lady may need brain surgery but compared to Sydney right now who have 54 in ICU and 22 of those on ventilators, then I'd say thats the bigger story rather than the 1 that got a clot.

On average thats a 1 in 70,000 risk of obtaining a clot, and an average of just over a 1 in a million chance of dying by that clot. They need to sell it much better to those over the age of 60. 65% of 60-69's is not good that have received their 1st dose. The govt today came out with a target of 80% (which I assume is double dosed) to halt future lockdowns. We are so far away from there. Not 1 age group yet has reached that threshold on 1st doses and we should be targeting 100% for those over the age of 60 and that requires AZ being re-marketed to these people.

 

[mrposhman]

Yes... I think they are getting better at treating the clots. Interesting we've had deaths from Delta in NSW, about 6 so far I think? It's still a dangerous disease.

13 deaths from Delta in NSW isn't it?

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

It's like if you needed to build a shelf, and I said 'You can have this Mikita drill in three weeks, or this Ozito drill in 3 months. And the Ozito drill has a one in a hundred thousand chance of killing you."

I'd take option 1 every day of the week.

Similar to the beer analogy I used and was ridiculed over.

 

[RoarEmotion]

Similar to the beer analogy I used and was ridiculed over.

It’s a good analogy. Take your pick of which one https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases but difficult for people to unpick probability and consequence.

media putting as a lead story or the barman listing it in the description is the same thing.

similar to shark death whereas death by pencil won’t be raised at office works or on twitter

 

[AngryAnt]

Similar to the beer analogy I used and was ridiculed over.

that was a terrible analogy that left out the fact that you have to wait four months for the "good" beer, if you don't have a beer now you might die, you having a beer now will protect others who for medical reasons can't have a beer, and if everyone doesn't have a beer soon the economy is going to shut down.

Oh, and we don't have a beer we have to stay locked up in our houses for indefinite periods. Oh, and 13 people in NSW in the last month have died because they didn't have the beer.

Also the beer is free

 

[AngryAnt]

It’s a good analogy. Take your pick of which one https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases but difficult for people to unpick probability and consequence.

media putting as a lead story or the barman listing it in the description is the same thing.

similar to shark death whereas death by pencil won’t be raised at office works or on twitter

Nope, a bad analogy precisely because it totally ignored probability and consequence except in the most individual, selfish way.

 

[eZyT]

that was a terrible analogy that left out the fact that you have to wait four months for the "good" beer, if you don't have a beer now you might die, you having a beer now will protect others who for medical reasons can't have a beer, and if everyone doesn't have a beer soon the economy is going to shut down.

Oh, and we don't have a beer we have to stay locked up in our houses for indefinite periods. Oh, and 13 people in NSW in the last month have died because they didn't have the beer.

Also the beer is free

yeah, but apart from that,

its a great analogy

 

[eZyT]

It’s a good analogy. Take your pick of which one https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases but difficult for people to unpick probability and consequence.

media putting as a lead story or the barman listing it in the description is the same thing.

similar to shark death whereas death by pencil won’t be raised at office works or on twitter

I really enjoyed reading that take on cognition, thanks RE

It really stimulates meta-cognition, thinking about ones thinking,

which is really powerful.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

that was a terrible analogy that left out the fact that you have to wait four months for the "good" beer, if you don't have a beer now you might die, you having a beer now will protect others who for medical reasons can't have a beer, and if everyone doesn't have a beer soon the economy is going to shut down.

Oh, and we don't have a beer we have to stay locked up in our houses for indefinite periods. Oh, and 13 people in NSW in the last month have died because they didn't have the beer.

Also the beer is free

Official vaccine advice is that Pfizer is preferred for people under 60 but AstraZeneca can be used "where the benefits clearly outweigh the risk for that individual and the person has made an informed decision based on an understanding of the risks and benefits".

Do you think getting vaccinated ASAP should be made compulsory? Why/why not?

 

[Tigers of Old]

3 new cases all in iso all linked, plus the mystery case has now been linked to the current outbreak.

We really are smashing it.

 

[AngryAnt]

Official vaccine advice is that Pfizer is preferred for people under 60 but AstraZeneca can be used "where the benefits clearly outweigh the risk for that individual and the person has made an informed decision based on an understanding of the risks and benefits".

Do you think getting vaccinated ASAP should be made compulsory? Why/why not?

Nope, people should make an informed decision based on their own circumstances and taking into account the current situation and benefits for others. Making a vaccine compulsory should not be necessary in a democratic society, however I have no problem with the vaccinated getting benefits that the non-vaccinated (by choice) don't. Governments at all levels should be encouraging vaccination in whatever way they can.

I'm under 60, I took the AZ vaccine not because I was "scared" of covid, but because it's the right thing to do and will get us out of lockdowns and back to normality sooner the faster we all can be vaccinated with one of the many effective vaccines.

Do you still want to argue that mass vaccination is a low priority for Australia? Why/why not? And don't hide behind Scott Morrison's skirts this time. What do you think?

 

[mrposhman]

We really are smashing it.

But I thought no where in the world had anyone successfully controlled Delta? Must be true as Gladys says so.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

Britain may be finally nearing the Holy Grail of herd immunity
...

Posted an article on this interesting trend earlier in the week, but it seems the worm is turning.

Jul 19 - "Freedom Day"
Jul 20 - 46K cases, 96 deaths
Jul 21 - 43K, 73
Jul 22 - 39K, 84
Jul 23 - 36K, 64
Jul 24 - 31K, 86
Jul 25 - 29K, 28
Jul 26 - 25K, 14
Jul 27 - 23K, 131
- - - - -
Jul 28 - 28K, 91
Jul 29 - 31K, 85

 

[Baloo]

Nope, people should make an informed decision based on their own circumstances and taking into account the current situation and benefits for others. Making a vaccine compulsory should not be necessary in a democratic society, however I have no problem with the vaccinated getting benefits that the non-vaccinated (by choice) don't. Governments at all levels should be encouraging vaccination in whatever way they can.

I'm under 60, I took the AZ vaccine not because I was "scared" of covid, but because it's the right thing to do and will get us out of lockdowns and back to normality sooner the faster we all can be vaccinated with one of the many effective vaccines.

Do you still want to argue that mass vaccination is a low priority for Australia? Why/why not? And don't hide behind Scott Morrison's skirts this time. What do you think?

The right to choose to not vaccinate is about as valid as the right to choose to drink and drive.

 

[AngryAnt]

The right to choose to not vaccinate is about as valid as the right to choose to drink and drive.

I think it's better to encourage, but this includes things like being excluded from public schools, events and travel if you are not vaccinated.

 

[Baloo]

If you are deliberately choosing to be a threat to society, you should be treated like others who are a threat.

Drunk drivers the perfect parallel