Coronavirus

[eZyT]

The non mandatory "covid" vax is now mandatory to work on a construction site. Not vaxed no work. No coercion of course. Just take away yr ability to work.
Dan's the Man. Gladys in theeantime u can reopen any businesd, a staff 2b vaxed, serve a unvaxed person in yr business when not allowed. No stress or issues, just a $55k fine to pay. Business gone.

Aust what a country!

yeah but typhoid and yellow fever weren't mandatory in 1995.

but if I didnt get them, I didnt get a visa to Cuba.

I was simply coerced into drinking rum and smoking cigars on the beach.

ah, the old days, when govt coercion and big pharma control was straight forward

 

[Wildride]

The mmr etc vaccinations for babies and toddlers aren’t mandatory, but you can’t access government funded childcare and schooling without them. Not far from the COVID situation.

 

[RoarEmotion]

The non mandatory "covid" vax is now mandatory to work on a construction site. Not vaxed no work. No coercion of course. Just take away yr ability to work.
Dan's the Man. Gladys in theeantime u can reopen any businesd, a staff 2b vaxed, serve a unvaxed person in yr business when not allowed. No stress or issues, just a $55k fine to pay. Business gone.

Aust what a country!

I’m gathering you think this is unfair.

There is a huge externality imposed by people not vaccinating on the rest of society. I think this is unfair so if mandating can’t happen and people be forced to take it, then having rules that penalise that choice seem very fair to me.

If people then choose to get not get vaccinated and not be able to work or risk get a business ending that’s their choice too.

I expect we won’t agree though which is cool too.

It’s akin to fining polluters - who also impose externalities on society. You can still pollute - but you pay a fine for that privilege so you can chose to stop polluting or keep paying fines. If the fines reflect the externality and that is high then the right choice will become obvious.

 

[MB78]

They are now showing the doses for the 12 to 15 year olds. Over 83k doses this week.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1438383819107667969

 

[Baloo]

A Twitter thread that's detailing real life side effects of getting vaccinated. Quite revealing

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1438258815892402179

 

[Al Bundy]

What is wrong with mandatory vaccinations? Australia is not a libertarian state.

nothing to be honest, but they shouldve stated that from the start for Covid. They didnt. You do remember it wasnt mandatory dont you?

Governments continued for a long time to say if NOT mandatory. Thats where the problem lies and thats where people are up in arms about. Its their choice
Then coercion to force people to get it and/or they are segregated from society I find wrong. (Think there is legislation there too about it)
If you or others ( I know a few too) dont see nothing wrong that also is part of the problem. Just because you or anyone else might be provax to me its fine. But I also respect the point of view it was a choice to get it but now goverments are finding a way to force it.

interesting one, check too how they are forcing vax on a certain caetgory of 12 y.os. out of home kids i blv. pathetic.

I chose to get it but knowing its was NOT mandatory but it suited me.

 

[AngryAnt]

For Dr. Lamb - the results of the large scale robust, well-conducted Together Brazillian Ivermectin trial are in.

Not so good.

Ivermectin Shows No Clear Benefit in the Treatment of Covid-19

New trial results find no statistically significant effect

elemental.medium.com

No clinical benefit for reduced hospitalisations or reduced mortality. This was an Ivermectin treatment for patients who started with mild Covid symptoms. In better news from this study, they found fluvoxamine (influenza antiviral) did show some benefits.

Full results slide deck is here https://dcricollab.dcri.duke.edu/sites/NIHKR/KR/GR-Slides-08-06-21.pdf



Same author (epidimiologist) did a survey of all reasonable quality and above research, removing the known fraudulent research and got these results.

 

[Al Bundy]

I’m gathering you think this is unfair.

There is a huge externality imposed by people not vaccinating on the rest of society. I think this is unfair so if mandating can’t happen and people be forced to take it, then having rules that penalise that choice seem very fair to me.

If people then choose to get not get vaccinated and not be able to work or risk get a business ending that’s their choice too.

I expect we won’t agree though which is cool too.

It’s akin to fining polluters - who also impose externalities on society. You can still pollute - but you pay a fine for that privilege so you can chose to stop polluting or keep paying fines. If the fines reflect the externality and that is high then the right choice will become obvious.

Your right Roar, respectfully disagree as per reason to a post I just put up.

But add, if you are vax, or even over 80% of the population, maybe 85% the rest are in a minority. Your vax protects u so to me the unvax person is irrelevant. Both can carry it (unvaxed more so). - and before other posters start with the list of burdens to society, dont bother or waste yr time. I know what the opinions are. This thread is at Pg900+ and been raised before.

I had no issue if the governments said it from the start. Next 8 mths every1 has to be vaccinated. they didnt. There lies the problem. If its a choice then it shouldnt be forced. And thats the government forcing for someone to lose their business. NSW for instance to elaborate further. You Roar had a coffee shop. Full vaxed employees, by human error you accidentely served a unvaxed person. Govt found out, well, your business would fail in its compliance and could face a $55K fine. Big pill to swallow.

 

[AngryAnt]

nothing to be honest, but they shouldve stated that from the start for Covid. They didnt. You do remember it wasnt mandatory dont you?

They didn't know if the vaccines would be effective in a real world setting "from the start", so how could they make vaccines mandatory at that point?

 

[RoarEmotion]

Your right Roar, respectfully disagree as per reason to a post I just put up.

But add, if you are vax, or even over 80% of the population, maybe 85% the rest are in a minority. Your vax protects u so to me the unvax person is irrelevant. Both can carry it (unvaxed more so). - and before other posters start with the list of burdens to society, dont bother or waste yr time. I know what the opinions are. This thread is at Pg900+ and been raised before.

I had no issue if the governments said it from the start. Next 8 mths every1 has to be vaccinated. they didnt. There lies the problem. If its a choice then it shouldnt be forced. And thats the government forcing for someone to lose their business. NSW for instance to elaborate further. You Roar had a coffee shop. Full vaxed employees, by human error you accidentely served a unvaxed person. Govt found out, well, your business would fail in its compliance and could face a $55K fine. Big pill to swallow.

Thanks al.

When I boil it down my understanding on your position is “if you told me 9 months ago that if I wasn’t vaccinated I wouldn’t be able to work in certain jobs and had a year to sort it out then that is fine but if I’m given a month to do the same it isn’t.” Did I get it right? So how long is ok for them to bring the new rules in or did it have to be 9 months ago or because they didn’t do it nine months ago they are never allowed to bring new rules in ever?

Rules evolve over time as more is known. On this logic the government can’t change any rules for anything as they are forcing it. It just an illogical argument in my opinion - especially in a pandemic where it evolves. Delta wasn’t here 9 months ago.

And if you go through press conferences you will see plenty of signalling that life will be different for vaccinated and unvaccinated. Even though I disagree with your logic, if I did follow it I would say there have been plenty of warnings that these type of things would happen.

If you want to just ignore externalities then that’s up to you. An unvaccinated person may be ~30 times more likely to use the health care system. Many people making that choice impacts everyone. Why should everyone else be forced to bear this externality and not have pressure applied to minimise it?

I think the accident example just wouldn’t happen. You would prioritise going after people deliberately flouting the rules, not people trying to do the right thing. This has already happened with mask wearing where warnings are given and people given a chance to comply.

 

[22nd Man]

Is there another Twitter from the one I go on? There are of right wingers that are posting that I see.

Twitter is by and large whoever posts. Plenty of bile to go around from all sides of the spectrum

Only citing Sales views. If she had said she cops it equally badly from the right when she takes on ScoMo and Gladys and Porter and Barnaby (no shortage of opportunities there) i would have been unsurprised. Maybe it reflects her 730 audience? All the right wingers are watching Sky?

 

[MB78]

All states and territories besides Victoria grow. Has to be linked to the amount of lockdowns. Hopefully we haven’t lost too many talented people due to our woes. Melbourne has also lost many people to regional Victoria as well.

Queensland records Australia’s biggest population growth

Queensland’s population has surged as the rest of the country grinds to a halt, new figures show.

www.news.com.au

 

[Al Bundy]

They didn't know if the vaccines would be effective in a real world setting "from the start", so how could they make vaccines mandatory at that point?

3 weeks they(Feds) were stating it too. come on Ant.
Also why it was said to get at 70% to 80% Vax rate as agreed at National cabinet. State premiers taking it further

 

[Sintiger]

Only citing Sales views. If she had said she cops it equally badly from the right when she takes on ScoMo and Gladys and Porter and Barnaby (no shortage of opportunities there) i would have been unsurprised. Maybe it reflects her 730 audience? All the right wingers are watching Sky?

My comment was in relation to your statement that Twitter was “ the platform of the left” .

 

[Al Bundy]

Thanks al.

When I boil it down my understanding on your position is “if you told me 9 months ago that if I wasn’t vaccinated I wouldn’t be able to work in certain jobs and had a year to sort it out then that is fine but if I’m given a month to do the same it isn’t.” Did I get it right? So how long is ok for them to bring the new rules in or did it have to be 9 months ago or because they didn’t do it nine months ago they are never allowed to bring new rules in ever?

Rules evolve over time as more is known. On this logic the government can’t change any rules for anything as they are forcing it. It just an illogical argument in my opinion - especially in a pandemic where it evolves. Delta wasn’t here 9 months ago.

And if you go through press conferences you will see plenty of signalling that life will be different for vaccinated and unvaccinated. Even though I disagree with your logic, if I did follow it I would say there have been plenty of warnings that these type of things would happen.

If you want to just ignore externalities then that’s up to you. An unvaccinated person may be ~30 times more likely to use the health care system. Many people making that choice impacts everyone. Why should everyone else be forced to bear this externality and not have pressure applied to minimise it?

I think the accident example just wouldn’t happen. You would prioritise going after people deliberately flouting the rules, not people trying to do the right thing. This has already happened with mask wearing where warnings are given and people given a chance to comply.

yeah the jist of one part. There is more to it.

I think the accident example would happen.

Seen the kid handing a document to a cop who refused to read it? Exemption. Keep yr distance. Went to walk away since they wouldnt look at it. Jumped him and arrested him. See the cops arrest a person who was trying to tell cops & show them via mobile I blv about a heart condition, they jumped, cuffed him and arrested him. Had a heart attack and called a ambulance & still in cuffs. Family trying to tell cops to stop only when he victim was unconscious, they also fined them for abusive language and also charged another. 2 recent example. Many, many more mainstream media wont show

cops breaking rules of law to capture or evoke a response to arrest people too & some charging people on false stuff knowing it wont stick in court but get u out on bail (if u accept it unknowningly). If u then break bail it then actually becomes a criminal offence they act and arrest u. Not all cops are behaving right. Outright aholes. Ive got no trust. goes back to last years lockdown. Many are good, but some are #@$%s sorry. You might get a good one but I pity u on the other side of the coin.

 

[Al Bundy]

All states and territories besides Victoria grow. Has to be linked to the amount of lockdowns. Hopefully we haven’t lost too many talented people due to our woes. Melbourne has also lost many people to regional Victoria as well.

Queensland records Australia’s biggest population growth

Queensland’s population has surged as the rest of the country grinds to a halt, new figures show.

www.news.com.au

Know a few families that sold up and left for good. Hate what the state has become. Moved North. They couldnt be happier up on the Sunshine coast
Trying to encourage others to head north.

 

[Bunnerz]

It is 6 weeks now, that was the advice given to my Grandson yesterday, so I guess that's the current thinking.

One of my daughters had her Pfizer a couple of months ago & she had only 3 weeks between doses.

Same. My wife is angry.
Was told only 3 weeks.
Theym day after she had it, it was changed to six.

Ridiculous

 

[TigerMasochist]

I guess one silver lining may be that it will become less likely that Trump gets back in if his supporters are dying .

Woohoo. Second term in office coming up for Sleepy Joe .

 

[DavidSSS]

Hmm, so we're worried about those who refuse to get the vaccine not being allowed in restaurants and the like?

I presume those who have a problem with this will have no problem when I light up a fag next to them when they start eating their dinner?

This *smile* about some people somehow need the right to refuse the vaccine is just that, *smile*. Why? There are very few conditions which preclude getting any of the COVID vaccines, plus, there are plenty of different vaccines so how many people are really unable to get the vaccine? F*** all I reckon. As for religion, show me where in any religious text it says you can't get vaccinated, find me the quote.

You take the action of refusing a vaccine, you take the consequences, its called responsibility.

DS

 

[Bunnerz]

I agree with Al Bundy...they said for months it wasn't mandatory.
Now they have changed their mind.