Indigenous Voice Yes or No?

[Baloo]

Yeh, what's the risk? What scares people so much about this?

How will it change their lives, the reality is most people living in Austtralia are not directly impacted by indigenous issues. Why not try something different and empower people?

Because we give them so much free money, free housing, free everything and they just destroy to make better campsites.

We even went as far as making an ex-Prime Minister the special minister for Indigenous Affairs and not even he could make them help themselves.

They need us to help drag them into the 20th century.

 

[bengal tigers]

I don't know how to fix the problems.

But I do know 1 thing, they are not getting fixed at the moment.

Yes, lots of people have been speaking out about child abuse and various other issues Indigenous Australians face.

But they aren't being listened to.

Gee, maybe we should listen.

I know, how about we enshrine in the Constitution a forum for Indigenous Australians to put their point of view. It would be in the constitution so harder to ignore.

On the other hand we could continue the way we have been going and continue to ignore Indigenous points of view.

There is no guarantee that the Voice will make a difference, but voting it down and continuing what we have done for a couple of hundred years is virtually guaranteed to do nothing to fix the problems.

DS

One thing at least this referendum is doing is making people suddenly care about an issue that has been a serious problem for a long time. and mostly ignored for the same amount of time.

Indigenous Australians face disadvantage in education, health, employment, disability, justice and yes, violence and abuse. None of these will be fixed without improvement in all areas. And leaving things the way they are certainly isnt leading to improvements.
We have tried the "heavy handed" approach with the intervention- it achieved little. Clearly reverting back to a freer reign with alcohol certainly hasnt helped.

One thing we havent tried is giving Indigenous Australians a real "voice" in how to start fixing the may issues their communities face.

There wont be a quick fix, intergenerational trauma is real, and the evidence is clear that kids who are abused are more likely to then abuse in adulthood, and experience issues with drugs and alcohol. But surely giving those who are most affected by these issues, those who live surrounded by these issues, a real say in the response can only be a good thing.

We already have indigenous people in state/territory and federal government,some of them have been speaking out about the serious problems for a long time,people need to take away their political preferences and have a open mind.
I can't see how the voice changes much,when we don't listen to the indigenous politicians already in parliament .

What lm against is the child abuse that is happening in SOME of these camps ,the children that are removed,are eventually sent back because of kinship,and the vicious cycle begins again.
l just can't comprehend it,and certainly don't accept it.
I can't comment about the domestic violence cases,because l don't know what services are being offered

I seen a leader of one of these camps being interviewed ,and he said yes there are serious problems here but didn't want to elaborate ,he looked frightened .
I guess if he did speak out,and it affected a lot of his community ,he would be a target for reprisal ,and l guess that might be the same for other's .
The Government Past and present bring out indigenous policies ,but none of them tackle the serious issues.
My take so far is that the leaders of these communities ,need outside(Government) help to change things

To me a good start would be removing the government funded remote community camps,and bringing people back into more populated ,and better serviced cities /towns.
And to make sure that people have access to medical services /mental health /drug and alcohol treatment.
Access to education for the adults ,there should already be schools for children.
In areas of relocation ,more money spent of sporting facilities .
More scholarships provided,,to the ones who are showing promise in certain areas.

 

[Brodders17]

To me a good start would be removing the government funded remote community camps,and bringing people back into more populated ,and better serviced cities /towns.

No, this has been trialled has has proven to be disastrous, for both the people and the town.

And to make sure that people have access to medical services /mental health /drug and alcohol treatment.

Yes, a big issue that programs get funded then lose funding- that happens everywhere, and from all governments. Not just access though, good quality access that people with attend.

Access to education for the adults ,there should already be schools for children.

Not sure about the adult bit, yes it would be good, but functionally how it would work, and be different from the options already available.

In areas of relocation ,more money spent of sporting facilities .

Sporting facilities do help, along with programs that run alongside those sporting facilities. I reckon the NT Thunder for example provided a lot of education around domestic violence to their players, and had pretty low tolerance for any players guilty of violence- but not just punitive, they continued to support those players, and they could return to the team.

More scholarships provided,,to the ones who are showing promise in certain areas.

Scholarships can definitely help, schools do need proper support to ensure the kids who attend from remote access are appropriately supported. It is a big challenge for the kids and their families.

Indigenous policy is littered with a history of inconsistency and change, because the people making decisions changes, the level of interest of those making decisions changes and as does the people they get advice from.
Policies dictated from the outside are doomed to failure, and often repetitive failure.

A constant and consistent direct "voice" to the government, and parliament, for Indigenous people can only help to start to rectify some of these issues.

 

[bengal tigers]

No, this has been trialled has has proven to be disastrous, for both the people and the town.


Yes, a big issue that programs get funded then lose funding- that happens everywhere, and from all governments. Not just access though, good quality access that people with attend.

Not sure about the adult bit, yes it would be good, but functionally how it would work, and be different from the options already available.


Sporting facilities do help, along with programs that run alongside those sporting facilities. I reckon the NT Thunder for example provided a lot of education around domestic violence to their players, and had pretty low tolerance for any players guilty of violence- but not just punitive, they continued to support those players, and they could return to the team.


Scholarships can definitely help, schools do need proper support to ensure the kids who attend from remote access are appropriately supported. It is a big challenge for the kids and their families.

Indigenous policy is littered with a history of inconsistency and change, because the people making decisions changes, the level of interest of those making decisions changes and as does the people they get advice from.
Policies dictated from the outside are doomed to failure, and often repetitive failure.

A constant and consistent direct "voice" to the government, and parliament, for Indigenous people can only help to start to rectify some of these issues.

Good post.Brodders

1.I get how it would be disastrous to relocate all the people to one town,my way of thinking was to spread people out across their state/territory,if agreed upon of course,l don't know if that option has already been offered.

2.I agree,,,Getting health personal into these area's is also a problem .

3. Adult education ,it could be as basic as learning to cook,it's all about finding out what people are interested in,and of course their education level.,l know it's not going to be for everyone,but if it can help a small amount it's a start.
You never stop learning in life.

4.Excellent point about the NT Thunder,and maybe that model could be used in all forms of sport,and used in every state.
I also think that maybe NT Thunder should be added to the VFL ,it would provide more incentive ,and maybe the under18's play Nab cup.
The amount of NT player's in the AFL is low.
Their are schools in Victoria that have scholarships ,Dan Rioli had one with St Pats and a couple of other's who are playing AFL also had scholarships .
Of course it's not just about football,and other's have gone onto further education ,and careers .

The more time l have had to think about it, I actually like SA idea of going alone ,and having there own voice .
I think all states/territories should do the same,the indigenous face different problems or needs in every state/territory .

 

[eZyT]

The Govt. could table a bill

To end all old growth logging, zero emmisions by next monday, free homes for everyone,

And The Greens would vote against it

Demanding no emmisions by Sunday

They have nothing but an ideology.

 

[Tigaman]

in this thread there has been the question asked , probably rhetorical , "dont we have a minister for Indigenous Affairs ?"
Not really sure the division of duties but these pollies are listed in order as the head of National Indigenous Australians Agency
have some part in the administration of Indigenous Affairs

I'll poke around and see if there is a summary of The Voice


View attachment 17949

View attachment 17948

View attachment 17947

people wanting know more or complain or make comment to the officials involved see the links below

More information and contacts​

Visit Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice

Learn more about the Uluru Statement from the Heart

Public email: [email protected]

Taskforce email: [email protected]

Sommething to digest !!

 

[Baloo]

Welcomes to country between Indigenous Australian communities have a history of thousands of years, but Dingo and Walley say their’s was the first to be performed in the country for non-Indigenous Australians.

Back then, Dingo and Walley were part of the Middar Aboriginal theatre, with a show billed at Perth fringe festival. They were asked by a group of Polynesian performers – two Māori and two Cook Islanders – to give them a welcome to country, as their spiritual beliefs dictate. After consulting with his community’s elders, Walley was given permission to welcome the visiting performers.

Dingo says before that occasion, “We couldn’t do it to white people because they wouldn’t understand, and there was too much negativity.”

Ernie Dingo and Richard Walley on the 40th year of their welcome to country

The ceremony has a history of thousands of years but the pair say theirs was the first to be performed for non-Indigenous Australians

www.theguardian.com

 

[AngryAnt]

Good post.Brodders

1.I get how it would be disastrous to relocate all the people to one town,my way of thinking was to spread people out across their state/territory,if agreed upon of course,l don't know if that option has already been offered.

I mean, something in the back of my mind tells me that forcing people to leave their homes, families and communities, then separating them from each other and relocating them to different places all over the state might not really be totally ethical, practical or even sensible. One might even say I see a few problems with this well-thought out solution from a white man who no doubt has the best interests of indigenous people at heart.

 

[AngryAnt]

Sommething to digest !!

The good thing about you posting these racist screeds is that almost no-one bothers to open or read them. I opened one at random just to the get the gist - suggest that others don't bother unless you want to read anonymous emails full of bizarre racist content.

 

[bengal tigers]

I mean, something in the back of my mind tells me that forcing people to leave their homes, families and communities, then separating them from each other and relocating them to different places all over the state might not really be totally ethical, practical or even sensible. One might even say I see a few problems with this well-thought out solution from a white man who no doubt has the best interests of indigenous people at heart.

So what we just sit back and let child abuse,, domestic violence happen,some of these people need a second chance ,not be trapped in a vicious cycle that won't stop until it gets broken.

 

[AngryAnt]

So what we just sit back and let child abuse,, domestic violence happen,some of these people need a second chance ,not be trapped in a vicious cycle that won't stop until it gets broken.

Rounding whole communities up, separating them and deporting them to other areas of the state will likely cause more violence, abuse and broken families, but yeah sure, forced resettlement is a great idea mate

 

[DavidSSS]

Yep, taking Indigenous Australians off their country has always been real healthy for their culture and well being.

FFS for once we need to listen to indigenous opinions, including those of Lydia Thorpe and that NT National. Giving them a voice which is guaranteed in the constitution might actually mean they listened to. Not guaranteed but it is a start.

DS

 

[Tigaman]

The good thing about you posting these racist screeds is that almost no-one bothers to open or read them. I opened one at random just to the get the gist - suggest that others don't bother unless you want to read anonymous emails full of bizarre racist content.

So you want to only see Yea posts. You are dubbing all no voters as Racists. . By the way can you post some Voice info which has been documented by Albo ?.

 

[Tigaman]

Quote of the Day Anyone that blindly follows the Directions of any Politician on How To Vote should not be allowed to Vote as they cannot be the Full Quid ( quid a Pound on the old Australian currency ) therefore should not vote Yes on a Blank Cheque.

 

[bengal tigers]

Rounding whole communities up, separating them and deporting them to other areas of the state will likely cause more violence, abuse and broken families, but yeah sure, forced resettlement is a great idea mate

GROUND HOG DAY......DAY 10......The repetition continues .

What sort of explanation is that.,,Abuse,Violence ,broken families is already happening at a large scale.
And were did l say forced resettlement .
Adults who have suffered abuse or want to escape the environment should be given the option of relocation,or maybe that already is. happening.
Children who are in a constant abusive or violent environment ,should be removed that is a no brainer ,,,,And that is for all of Australia ,White,Black etc ...

 

[Baloo]

So you want to only see Yea posts. You are dubbing all no voters as Racists. . By the way can you post some Voice info which has been documented by Albo ?.

No, what you are posting is all puerile racist crap. A quick google search on what your pdf's contain quickly show you it's not giving you the full story and twisting the truth.

Your last crap post. First PDF states the Welcome to country isn't an indigenous tradition, it was something Ernie Dingo made up in the 70s. A twisted half truth. Here's what Ernie says about the Welcome to Country he "invented"

Welcomes to country between Indigenous Australian communities have a history of thousands of years, but Dingo and Walley say their’s was the first to be performed in the country for non-Indigenous Australians.

Back then, Dingo and Walley were part of the Middar Aboriginal theatre, with a show billed at Perth fringe festival. They were asked by a group of Polynesian performers – two Māori and two Cook Islanders – to give them a welcome to country, as their spiritual beliefs dictate. After consulting with his community’s elders, Walley was given permission to welcome the visiting performers.

Dingo says before that occasion, “We couldn’t do it to white people because they wouldn’t understand, and there was too much negativity.”

Your other PDF about the restaurnant with no menu is again complete racist crap. A childish analogy to appeal to the lowest common denominator, designed to push the notion that the Voice is nothing to those who can't or won't think for themselves, or for the racists *smile* to forward around.

To use that Grade 2 analogy, The Voice referendum is voting on whether we should build a restaurant, not choosing what items are on the menu. The work on the menu starts after it's been agreed to build the restaurant in the first place.

 

[Sintiger]

The more time l have had to think about it, I actually like SA idea of going alone ,and having there own voice .
I think all states/territories should do the same,the indigenous face different problems or needs in every state/territory .

We need both. A voice to the national parliament and a voice to each state and territory parliament. The reason for this is that state and federal governments have different responsibilities and our indigenous population need to have the same mechanism for both. If all states go it alone the "Voice" is limited by the powers of the parliament they are advising.

For instance state governments control public hospitals, the education systems, the police and the jails.

I see all this discussion on here about higher levels of abuse and family violence in indigenous communities and have trouble understanding why this should lead to voting against the Voice to parliament, which in the end is what this thread is about. Indigenous communities have worse health outcomes, lower life spans, worse education outcomes and higher incarceration rates as well as the issues you raise and to me this is one of the main reasons we need to have the Voice, to give them better access to providing advice to law makers about what affects their people.

The alternative is to do nothing and that is not working. There is no risk to the Voice, only upside.

I also see the argument that we have indigenous members of parliament already and that argument also bemuses me. It is like saying families with Italian heritage are represented by the Prime Minister when actually politicians are elected to represent their constituencies not what ethnic group they belong to.

The members of the body that will be the voice to parliament will be there to specifically represent the indigenous population and will be charged with advising the government on matters that relate to that population. I can't see a downside and hopefully an upside to address issues like family violence and violence against children, amongst many others.

 

[MD Jazz]

So you want to only see Yea posts. You are dubbing all no voters as Racists. . By the way can you post some Voice info which has been documented by Albo ?.

I don't think all. But you've qualified with flying colours.

 

[Sintiger]

By the way can you post some Voice info which has been documented by Albo ?.

The PM has consistently said that the Voice will follow the recommendations of the Uluṟu declaration which has already been posted here

https://ulurustatement.org/education/faqs/

Some of the questions asked by Dutton are addressed in this. Others are clearly in the realm covered in the statement of detail yet to be worked through.
If you read Dutton’s questions some relate to very specific detail about who will be members of the Voice as an example and it is very clear that this sort of detail is to come, much of which will be decided by parliament not the referendum.
The referendum question is not about that detail, it is about a statement in the constitution.

 

[AngryAnt]

So you want to only see Yea posts. You are dubbing all no voters as Racists. . By the way can you post some Voice info which has been documented by Albo ?.

No, just the people who wrote the racist nonsense in those anonymous emails you posted.