List Management 2023

[Willo]

Who's out of contract?

Name	Years Service	Status
Bigoa Nyuon​	4​	Unrestricted Free Agent​
Hugo Ralphsmith​	4​	Non-Free Agent​
Jack Riewoldt​	17​	Unrestricted Free Agent​
Jacob Bauer​	2​	Non-Free Agent​
Jason Castagna​	9​	Non-Free Agent​
Kaelan Bradtke​	1​	Non-Free Agent​
Mate Colina​	3​	Non-Free Agent​
Rhyan Mansell​	4​	Non-Free Agent​
Robbie Tarrant​	2​	Unrestricted Free Agent​
Thomson Dow​	4​	Non-Free Agent​
Trent Cotchin​	16​	Unrestricted Free Agent​

 

[daniel30]

Hard calls need to made put some value on the trade table and get some good picks.

 

[wigglyworm]

Name	Years Service	Status
Bigoa Nyuon​	4​	Unrestricted Free Agent​
Hugo Ralphsmith​	4​	Non-Free Agent​
Jack Riewoldt​	17​	Unrestricted Free Agent​
Jacob Bauer​	2​	Non-Free Agent​
Jason Castagna​	9​	Non-Free Agent​
Kaelan Bradtke​	1​	Non-Free Agent​
Mate Colina​	3​	Non-Free Agent​
Rhyan Mansell​	4​	Non-Free Agent​
Robbie Tarrant​	2​	Unrestricted Free Agent​
Thomson Dow​	4​	Non-Free Agent​
Trent Cotchin​	16​	Unrestricted Free Agent​

Jeez slim pickings there. Would struggle to name 3 that we should keep on the list.

Biggy nup
Hugo nup. Brown and Trezzi gone past him in one game and he has been given opportunities
Bauer - Possible 1-2
Kaelen - Cant see him making it
Mate - No chance
Rhyan - 1-2 as decent backup
Thomson Dow - Geez he has 1-2 decent games but he still cant kick. He handballs twice as much he kicks which isnt great. 27 possessions for 127 metres isnt great

 

[Scoop]

Mansell’s manager said on Gettable podcast last week he was waiting on an a contract for Mansell.

 

[craig]

Name	Years Service	Status
Bigoa Nyuon​	4​	Unrestricted Free Agent​
Hugo Ralphsmith​	4​	Non-Free Agent​
Jack Riewoldt​	17​	Unrestricted Free Agent​
Jacob Bauer​	2​	Non-Free Agent​
Jason Castagna​	9​	Non-Free Agent​
Kaelan Bradtke​	1​	Non-Free Agent​
Mate Colina​	3​	Non-Free Agent​
Rhyan Mansell​	4​	Non-Free Agent​
Robbie Tarrant​	2​	Unrestricted Free Agent​
Thomson Dow​	4​	Non-Free Agent​
Trent Cotchin​	16​	Unrestricted Free Agent​

I might be wrong and am happy to be corrected but didnt Bauer get an extension a few weeks ago?

 

[mrposhman]

Talk of trading our future 1st and feeling like

Talk of trading our future 1st based on a feeling we will do better next season, or any other feeling for that matter, is just crazy.

The rest of it is not so crazy, in fact not crazy at all. Our objective should be the GC 1st rd pick and it would surprise if a significant level of discussion on that possibility, has not already began.

Prestia and Vlastuin's names will come up as Dima looks to add some talent and finals experience to a team, which has promised so much but has never played finals. He has said he will bring quick improvement and also stated that 80% of the clubs first premiership team are already on staff. He is going to add and the additions will include experienced and talented players on whom Dima knows he can rely.

Prestia and Vlastuin have been great for us, but we are a long way off and need to get some quality youth in, and the sooner the better.

It obviously all depends on the deal, but you can never have a hard and fast rule of no trading of your future 1st like you want. You take yourselves out of so many discussions when you do that. It all depends what you get back.

If for example, we manage to trade some of those names into a top 10 pick, then great, we don't need to use next years 1st, but if we get up to day Pick 15, wouldn't it be better to trade up to say GC's 1st and have pick 15 or 16 next year. That way we guarantee ourselves a top 5 pick (unless of course McKay gets ridiculous compo) but then we would get a top 6 pick, rather than hope we finish that poorly next year?

It all comes down to risk and reward and I get it, you are clearly risk averse, but risk averse doesn't always create the best returns (in fact most of the times it doesn't).

 

[momentai]

The only trade of a future 1st that has turned into a premiership that I am aware of is Geelong’s to GWS for Cameron, not a draft pick.
In the overwhelming number of cases it concerns recruiters who think their teams are more advanced than they are.
Our team is a long way off a final 4 finish and playing in its next GF.
To sell a future 1st for a draft pick is just foolish!

 

[mrposhman]

The only trade of a future 1st that has turned into a premiership that I am aware of is Geelong’s to GWS for Cameron, not a draft pick.
In the overwhelming number of cases it concerns recruiters who think their teams are more advanced than they are.
Our team is a long way off a final 4 finish and playing in its next GF.
To sell a future 1st for a draft pick is just plain dumb.

But a future 1st IS a draft pick, it just depends what you get back. You will sell a future draft pick for a current one. You can't claim thats dumb, its just swapping years.

 

[Willo]

I might be wrong and am happy to be corrected but didnt Bauer get an extension a few weeks ago?

There was some talk but whether he’s signed a new contract or not I’m not sure. I can’t find any confirmation

 

[momentai]

But a future 1st IS a draft pick, it just depends what you get back. You will sell a future draft pick for a current one. You can't claim thats dumb, its just swapping years.

It is error on error. At least when Geelong bought in Cameron they new what they were getting.

We thought we knew at the last draft but were mistaken with Hopper, and wound up with a pretty good player who is relatively slow and contracted on huge money for another 6 years.

And another bottom 6 finish.

Ask me if I would agree to sell a future 1st for a Petracca or a Daicos N and anyone would agree, but not for a pick 5 or whatever it becomes when we don’t know where pick 5 will fall and who will be available, or what our (traded) future pick will be or where that future pick will drop.

OK with the trade of future 2nd and 3rds
and can see something like that coming down as part of a trade with GC.

But surely all the belief you and others expressed this year about how well we would do and how we would only be giving up a very late pick (which went so horribly wrong), suggests that maybe the idea deserves a little more thought and a great deal more care.

 

[mrposhman]

It is error on error. At least when Geelong bought in Cameron they new what they were getting.

We thought we knew at the last draft but were mistaken with Hopper, and wound up with a pretty good player who is relatively slow and contracted on huge money for another 6 years.

And another bottom 6 finish.

Ask me if I would agree to sell a future 1st for a Petracca or a Daicos N and anyone would agree, but not for a pick 5 or whatever it becomes when we don’t know where pick 5 will fall and who will be available, or what our (traded) future pick will be or where that future pick will drop.

OK with the trade of future 2nd and 3rds
and can see something like that coming down as part of a trade with GC.

But surely all the belief you and others expressed this year about how well we would do and how we would only be giving up a very late pick (which went so horribly wrong), suggests that maybe the idea deserves a little more thought and a great deal more care.

Like I said, it all depends what you get back in the overall deal. If we got a Pick 4-6 by forward trading, why wouldn't we do that. Do you really think we get worse next year assuming we are confident that we get Lynch and Gibcus back in the team? Yes we don't know the value of next years pick, but it doesn't have that much further to drop.

 

[Brodders17]

The only trade of a future 1st that has turned into a premiership that I am aware of is Geelong’s to GWS for Cameron, not a draft pick.
In the overwhelming number of cases it concerns recruiters who think their teams are more advanced than they are.
Our team is a long way off a final 4 finish and playing in its next GF.
To sell a future 1st for a draft pick is just foolish!

Melbourne did it for 3 or 4 years in a row in the lead up to their flag.
The Cats traded into to pick Holmes and gave us the 2021 1st pick (Brown).
Port did it last year for Horne Francis.

There are 2 times it has worked and one where Port would be very happy.
Jackson to Freo is still a win for both parties.

Blocking potential trade options is a terrible starting point.

 

[Tigers of Old]

The only trade of a future 1st that has turned into a premiership that I am aware of is Geelong’s to GWS for Cameron, not a draft pick.
In the overwhelming number of cases it concerns recruiters who think their teams are more advanced than they are.
Our team is a long way off a final 4 finish and playing in its next GF.
To sell a future 1st for a draft pick is just foolish!

Do we win in 2017 without Prestia?: Edit you said future.

 

[momentai]

Melbourne did it for 3 or 4 years in a row in the lead up to their flag.
The Cats traded into to pick Holmes and gave us the 2021 1st pick (Brown).
Port did it last year for Horne Francis.

There are 2 times it has worked and one where Port would be very happy.
Jackson to Freo is still a win for both parties.

Blocking potential trade options is a terrible starting point.

I have only ever referred to the best policy concerning future 1st round picks. Are you saying that Melbourne traded their future 1st rounders for 3 or 4 years in a row ?
Horne-Francis is in the exceptional area that I spoke about when I mentioned Daicos N, and Petraka the other day. These are players who have clearly identified themselves as future champions. Far far ahead of the good player we traded for, and from clubs far better positioned than we were, having finished bottom 6, with half a dozen odd players heading down the hill, rather than up it.
BUT I do concede then that on those very rare occasions, it can be justified.

Like I said, it all depends what you get back in the overall deal. If we got a Pick 4-6 by forward trading, why wouldn't we do that. Do you really think we get worse next year assuming we are confident that we get Lynch and Gibcus back in the team? Yes we don't know the value of next years pick, but it doesn't have that much further to drop.

Not for the first time you conveniently overlook your error of judgement concerning the position we were in and the result of our trading our future first for Hopper who will be with us for the next 6 years, but to be fair your suggestion we trade next years first because you 'feel we are going back up' the ladder seems about as equally well thought through.

 

[spook]

The only trade of a future 1st that has turned into a premiership that I am aware of is Geelong’s to GWS for Cameron, not a draft pick.
In the overwhelming number of cases it concerns recruiters who think their teams are more advanced than they are.
Our team is a long way off a final 4 finish and playing in its next GF.
To sell a future 1st for a draft pick is just foolish!

Melbourne traded a future first as well as that year's pick 10 for Jake Lever in 2017.

In 2018 they traded Jesse Hogan out for pick 6 and 23, traded 6 for Steven May and drafted Tom Sparrow.

In 2019 they traded their 2020 first-rounder along with picks 26 and 50 for pick 8, which they then traded to Freo for picks 10, 28 (Trent Rivers) and Carlton's 2020 fourth-rounder. With pick 10 (became 12 after bids) they drafted Kozi Pickett.

In 2020 they traded their 2021 2nd and 4th-rounders for picks 33 and 50, and their 2021 third-rounder for pick 43 and Brisbane's 2021 4th-rounder. They got a future 3rd for Mitch Hannan from the Dogs and pick 31 for Preuss from GWS. They upgraded 31 and 43 to 25 in a deal with Sydney, who needed points for Campbell. They traded picks 26, 33 and Brisbane's future 4th for Ben Brown, pick 28 and Norf's future 4th. They traded picks 25, 68, 69 and their 2021 1st-rounder for picks 18, 19 (Jake Bowey, Bailey Laurie) and Brisbane's 2021 2nd-rounder.

In 2021, they traded their 2022 1st-rounder and picks 33 and 45 and got picks 17 (Jacob van Rooyen), 37 (Blake Howes) and 49 (traded to St Kilda at the draft) in a four-club deal with the Dogs, Adelaide and St Kilda.

In 2022, they got Freo's 2022 and 2023 1st-rounders and 2023 2nd for Jackson.

So, I make it four premiership players, a 10-year key forward, a fringie and some yet to be determined kids for trading four future firsts.

If you know what you want, what you'll need to get it and the relative strength of draft pools (not exact by any means, especially a year out), it can work.

They've done great business the past six years, hence they've won a flag and are a big chance to do it again, while still regenerating their list.

 

[momentai]

Melbourne traded a future first as well as that year's pick 10 for Jake Lever in 2017.

In 2019 they traded their 2020 first-rounder along with picks 26 and 50 for pick 8, which they then traded to Freo for picks 10, 28 and Carlton's 2020 fourth-rounder. With pick 10 (became 12 after bids) they drafted Kozi Pickett.

In 2020 they traded their 2021 2nd and 4th-rounders for picks 33 and 50, and their 2021 third-rounder for pick 43 and Brisbane's 2021 4th-rounder. They got a future 3rd for Mitch Hannan from the Dogs and pick 31 for Preuss from GWS. They upgraded 31 and 43 to 25 in a deal with Sydney, who needed points for Campbell. They traded picks 26, 33 and Brisbane's future 4th for Ben Brown, pick 28 and Norf's future 4th. They traded picks 25, 68, 69 and their 2021 1st-rounder for picks 18, 19 (Jake Bowey, Bailey Laurie) and Brisbane's 2021 2nd-rounder.

In 2021, they traded their 2022 1st-rounder and picks 33 and 45 and got picks 17 (Jacob van Rooyen), 37 (Blake Howes) and 49 (traded to St Kilda at the draft) in a four-club deal with the Dogs, Adelaide and St Kilda.

In 2022, they got Freo's 2022 and 2023 1st-rounders and 2023 2nd for Jackson.

So, I make it three premiership players, a 10-year key forward, a fringie and some yet to be determined kids for trading four future firsts.

If you know what you want, what you'll need to get it and the relative strength of draft pools (not exact by any means, especially a year out), it can work.

They also traded Jesse Hogan out for pick 6 and traded that for Steven May. They've done great business the past six years, hence they've won a flag and are a big chance to do it again, while still regenerating their list.

Thanks for the history lesson Spook. I suppose with the very superior midfield they had in place they felt they could get to a flag and I suspect are now on their way to another. But you are right, you have shown that it can work.

 

[Flea74]

would the "simple" plan be to trade players for picks; ie: Cumberland for a third rounder. (to any club) Ralph-Smith for a third rounder. (to any club). Dow for a third rounder. (to any club). then bundle those picks up and send them to Gold Coast for their first round pick?
edit: Norths third rounder is currently worth 446 points (?Dow). Sydneys third rounder is currently worth 412 points (?Cumberland). West Coast third rounder is currently worth 465 points (?Ralph-Smith). Not sure it gives Suns enough points to cover all their Academy players- so might have to throw in our third rounder too (362 points) to get their first round pick.
again- ideas only.

 

[spook]

would the "simple" plan be to trade players for picks; ie: Cumberland for a third rounder. (to any club) Ralph-Smith for a third rounder. (to any club). Dow for a third rounder. (to any club). then bundle those picks up and send them to Gold Coast for their first round pick?

Yes.

 

[Mantikorr]

would the "simple" plan be to trade players for picks; ie: Cumberland for a third rounder. (to any club) Ralph-Smith for a third rounder. (to any club). Dow for a third rounder. (to any club). then bundle those picks up and send them to Gold Coast for their first round pick?

Wouldn't that leave us with 7 spots to fill on our main list? Where are we getting another 7 main list quality players from?

 

[spook]

Wouldn't that leave us with 7 spots to fill on our main list? Where are we getting another 7 main list quality players from?

Bauer, Pickett, Miller, Campbell, Coulthard, Nyuon, Trezise and Young are all on the rookie list according to footywire. So we could upgrade several of them.