Richmond Ruck Stocks 2020 and Beyond | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Richmond Ruck Stocks 2020 and Beyond

Streak

Tiger Legend
Aug 31, 2007
37,241
6,285
Western Australia
There are a couple of decent young ruckmen coming through the ranks in WA.

Shannon Neale and Kailin Lane. Each offers something a little different.

Neale is an around the ground ruckman, very much in the Nank mold. Has even been compared to Dean Cox. Very good at dropping in to holes, especially in defence. Ruck skills developing.

Lane has excellent ruck skills and comes from a basketball background. He is also a decent prospect as a tall forward, with a beautiful kicking action on set shots. Already has some bulk about him at 96kg and a smooth mover.

I'd love to rookie Lane if he lasts that long. Neale I think would take a pick to snare, most likely our second.
 
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DuD_Delist

Tiger Superstar
Sep 30, 2014
1,291
1,476

The AFL will get what they want but not in the way they want it.
Its twin changes at the end of the year – cutting list sizes and interchanges – will immediately impact what happens next week at the draft table and next year on the field.
There will be fewer names called out on draft night than ever before due to the list size cuts and the doubts on this year's draft selections because of the coronavirus-robbed season in Victoria.
There will also be fewer ruckmen called out next week as the rucks have been caught in the pincer movement of the two rules.
Nic Naitanui and Max Gawn contest the ruck during round one.

Nic Naitanui and Max Gawn contest the ruck during round one. CREDIT:pAUL KANE

Firstly, with fewer list places available, clubs will not commit several years to develop speculative beanstalks while they fatten them up to play.
Secondly, and this is more important, the interchange cut means clubs will play fewer ruckmen next year.
The cut to the number of times players can be changed off the bench – down to 75 from 90 – combined with the expected return to 20-minute quarters mean clubs will alter who comes off the ground for breathers and when. For some players it will be a question of if they come off at all, not how often. Clubs will not evenly spread the rotation cuts across the field.
Most clubs are already planning around keeping their key position players at either end of the field the whole game, along with some of the deep forwards and backs. The hard-running high forwards and backs will still get spells.
That would mean the midfield can continue to effectively operate at the same level as this year.

So, the AFL will get their way and force players to stay on the ground for longer. It just won't be midfielders.
With fewer rotations more clubs will look at a Shaun Grigg role (like Leigh Brown before him, Shaun Grigg has now given his name to a role in footy). More clubs were doing it last season already and next year it will be likely that more clubs will use a tall midfielder as their faux ruck when their first ruck takes a break.
Justin Leppitsch offered the interesting description on radio on Wednesday of ruckmen as the "least most important" position on the ground. He's right, but they are also not unimportant.
What is of less consequence, or of more questionable value, is the second ruck. They will be like wicket-keepers who can't bat next year – there is no place for them. So unless the second ruck can genuinely play most of the game as a forward more clubs will look to hybrid midfielders rather than hybrid forwards.
The rotation change raises a question now of West Coast and game time for Nic Naitanui. The Eagles ruckman spent less time on the ground before heading to the bench for a break than any AFL ruckman – 7:08 minutes – last season in short quarters. Compare that to Max Gawn, who at 15:52 was the equal highest.

Naitanui is so damaging in his bursts that the Eagles will not compromise his impact by altering his game length but there will be a consequential question of how they handle their second ruck given fewer rotations.
All clubs will be wrestling with the question for the mix they have. Brodie Grundy had a relatively poor second half of the season for Collingwood but as a player with high endurance and running ability he could be one who benefits from a return to longer quarters and fewer rotations. His tap work has always only been mediocre so rule changes won't affect that.
Brodie Grundy, left, and Marc Pittonet go head to head at the Gabba.

Brodie Grundy, left, and Marc Pittonet go head to head at the Gabba. CREDIT:GETTY IMAGES
St Kilda played two rucks last year and while there remains a doubt on Paddy Ryder's fitness Rowan Marshall is adept forward of the ball.
Gawn has emerging player Luke Jackson there who is probably a better long term ruck than forward.

The Bulldogs used Josh Dunkley as a pinch-hitter last year but then traded Stef Martin in to help Tim English. Are they forced to rethink how they approach the two rucks now?
Geelong hasn't known what to do about rucks since Brad Ottens left, so that question remains for them, and it raises questions for the Tigers when Ivan Soldo is fit of striking the balance with Toby Nankervis, or whether they play only one and another Shaun Grigg type.
They will be not alone in wondering what to do next. The answers they come up with will not necessarily be the ones the AFL was expecting and not ones many ruckmen will relish.
 
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Brodders17

Tiger Legend
Mar 21, 2008
17,817
12,011

The AFL will get what they want but not in the way they want it.
Its twin changes at the end of the year – cutting list sizes and interchanges – will immediately impact what happens next week at the draft table and next year on the field.
There will be fewer names called out on draft night than ever before due to the list size cuts and the doubts on this year's draft selections because of the coronavirus-robbed season in Victoria.
There will also be fewer ruckmen called out next week as the rucks have been caught in the pincer movement of the two rules.
Nic Naitanui and Max Gawn contest the ruck during round one.

Nic Naitanui and Max Gawn contest the ruck during round one. CREDIT:pAUL KANE

Firstly, with fewer list places available, clubs will not commit several years to develop speculative beanstalks while they fatten them up to play.
Secondly, and this is more important, the interchange cut means clubs will play fewer ruckmen next year.
The cut to the number of times players can be changed off the bench – down to 75 from 90 – combined with the expected return to 20-minute quarters mean clubs will alter who comes off the ground for breathers and when. For some players it will be a question of if they come off at all, not how often. Clubs will not evenly spread the rotation cuts across the field.
Most clubs are already planning around keeping their key position players at either end of the field the whole game, along with some of the deep forwards and backs. The hard-running high forwards and backs will still get spells.
That would mean the midfield can continue to effectively operate at the same level as this year.

So, the AFL will get their way and force players to stay on the ground for longer. It just won't be midfielders.
With fewer rotations more clubs will look at a Shaun Grigg role (like Leigh Brown before him, Shaun Grigg has now given his name to a role in footy). More clubs were doing it last season already and next year it will be likely that more clubs will use a tall midfielder as their faux ruck when their first ruck takes a break.
Justin Leppitsch offered the interesting description on radio on Wednesday of ruckmen as the "least most important" position on the ground. He's right, but they are also not unimportant.
What is of less consequence, or of more questionable value, is the second ruck. They will be like wicket-keepers who can't bat next year – there is no place for them. So unless the second ruck can genuinely play most of the game as a forward more clubs will look to hybrid midfielders rather than hybrid forwards.
The rotation change raises a question now of West Coast and game time for Nic Naitanui. The Eagles ruckman spent less time on the ground before heading to the bench for a break than any AFL ruckman – 7:08 minutes – last season in short quarters. Compare that to Max Gawn, who at 15:52 was the equal highest.

Naitanui is so damaging in his bursts that the Eagles will not compromise his impact by altering his game length but there will be a consequential question of how they handle their second ruck given fewer rotations.
All clubs will be wrestling with the question for the mix they have. Brodie Grundy had a relatively poor second half of the season for Collingwood but as a player with high endurance and running ability he could be one who benefits from a return to longer quarters and fewer rotations. His tap work has always only been mediocre so rule changes won't affect that.
Brodie Grundy, left, and Marc Pittonet go head to head at the Gabba.

Brodie Grundy, left, and Marc Pittonet go head to head at the Gabba. CREDIT:GETTY IMAGES
St Kilda played two rucks last year and while there remains a doubt on Paddy Ryder's fitness Rowan Marshall is adept forward of the ball.
Gawn has emerging player Luke Jackson there who is probably a better long term ruck than forward.

The Bulldogs used Josh Dunkley as a pinch-hitter last year but then traded Stef Martin in to help Tim English. Are they forced to rethink how they approach the two rucks now?
Geelong hasn't known what to do about rucks since Brad Ottens left, so that question remains for them, and it raises questions for the Tigers when Ivan Soldo is fit of striking the balance with Toby Nankervis, or whether they play only one and another Shaun Grigg type.
They will be not alone in wondering what to do next. The answers they come up with will not necessarily be the ones the AFL was expecting and not ones many ruckmen will relish.
love the pics in that article. does make you feel a little for the umps, all 4 rucks are giving away blatant frees.
 
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No 4

I did what I did for the Tigers - Bridget
Feb 11, 2005
4,332
1,933
nunawading/mitcham
Nank ain't a great ruckman but he's is a great 'ruck-rover' in the old sense.
He is also smart, courageous and fights to the end. Is there another one of these in the comp? I say no. When he's getting beaten, he fights hard and bounces back (we have seen this in all of the final games). I love this scene prior the finals....Nic Nat jumping up and around in the centre prior the game (showing the players how good he is) and at the centre bounce Nank went into him side ways and kept winning and taking him out of the game.

A great ruckman, I say yes. It's more than getting the tap, it's the aggression around the ball, taking telling marks in the backline, chasing players, tackling.
 
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Scoop

Tiger Legend
Dec 8, 2004
25,007
14,264
Nank, CCJ+Chol. Feels ok to me. If we are going to take one I reckon it's an experienced state league rookie pick.

We will take three players in the main draft, one will be MRJ, the others our first two picks.

Can't see us burning one of those two picks on a kid who will be less likely to help us than CCJ and Chol.
 
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TigerMasochist

Walks softly carries a big stick.
Jul 13, 2003
25,828
11,812
love the pics in that article. does make you feel a little for the umps, all 4 rucks are giving away blatant frees.
All four rucks blatantly infringing = play on, nothing to see here. Unfortunately though the maggots will jump straight in as soon as one ruck either dominates the contest or suddenly stops the infringing a micro second before the other bloke n desperately start appealing. *smile* me to tears.
 
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Scoop

Tiger Legend
Dec 8, 2004
25,007
14,264
Nank, CCJ+Chol. Feels ok to me. If we are going to take one I reckon it's an experienced state league rookie pick.

We will take three players in the main draft, one will be MRJ, the others our first two picks.

Can't see us burning one of those two picks on a kid who will be less likely to help us than CCJ and Chol.
Lol, what the? We pass on Jack Carroll for a bloke outside the 100??????

Battling to understand that one big time.
 
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UKTiger

Tiger Legend
Jul 11, 2010
9,445
7,774
Shipston on Stour, UK
We still have a problem in the ruck stakes with only one bona fide ruck - Nanks with CCJ as a possible if he wants it dad enough. Chol is too unpredictable to risk pinning our hopes on, Ivan out for the best part of a year and we now have two ruck prospects that we have to bring on over the next few seasons. We still need a readymade ruck on a years contract as back up
 

eZyT

Tiger Legend
Jun 28, 2019
21,536
26,081
Do we take on another ruckman in 2020?

Your best prophesization since Oleg Markov and his amazing moustache Capt.

So, (in pecking order), we have

Nank
Ivan
Criminal Jones (that was pretty professorial too, were it not?)
Mabior Pendleberry
Big Sammy, and
The Funky Mate Colina (you sing that like you're Tone Loc)

6 ruckman on a small list?

we are not so much anticipating a seismic shift,

as about to induce one, by letting off a height density liquid trans-juicer bomb deep under the football world,

I believe.
 

tigerdell

Hope springs infernal
Mar 29, 2014
4,708
5,419
Your best prophesization since Oleg Markov and his amazing moustache Capt.

So, (in pecking order), we have

Nank
Ivan
Criminal Jones (that was pretty professorial too, were it not?)
Mabior Pendleberry
Big Sammy, and
The Funky Mate Colina (you sing that like you're Tone Loc)

6 ruckman on a small list?

we are not so much anticipating a seismic shift,

as about to induce one, by letting off a height density liquid trans-juicer bomb deep under the football world,

I believe.
An earth changing move or we are getting ready to.offload our backup?
It gives time to review the replacement.

But is this a vote of no-confidence in Chol, CCJ and Funky Mate?
Or a short term moneyball approach while we are primed for flags?
 
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tigerdell

Hope springs infernal
Mar 29, 2014
4,708
5,419
He isnt even my favourite ruck.
Slowish and playing in a weak uneven league. Screams like a Ben Nason pick.

And there is Max Heath, who reads like a young Nank. Tough and competitive.
Maybe Heath is still too young for the threepeat.

Its the last spot on our list.
I am underwhelmed but not overly worried
 

eZyT

Tiger Legend
Jun 28, 2019
21,536
26,081
An earth changing move or we are getting ready to.offload our backup?
It gives time to review the replacement.

But is this a vote of no-confidence in Chol, CCJ and Funky Mate?
Or a short term moneyball approach while we are primed for flags?

I think Matty Clarke has been reading that book that we all hide from our wives,

The Butt Naked Investor. or something like that?

He's also writing a book, or making some kind of a popcast,

called 'how to demolish everyone elses dreams: a micro and macro planning guide to creating a geological time-scaled dynasty'

hes a smart guy. Hes also releasing an abridged version as a kids book.

its called 'Dusty, the Midgets and the Behemoths'
 
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ToraToraTora

Two outta three ain't bad.
Mar 21, 2005
12,757
5,552
QLD
Do you know how many chockies our recruiters have in their underground Swiss chockies vault? A lot. Reckon this one will be viewed as shrewd.
 

Scoop

Tiger Legend
Dec 8, 2004
25,007
14,264
Nank ain't a great ruckman but he's is a great 'ruck-rover' in the old sense.

Got the new Konrad Marshall book today, it's a 120 pages paperback. Finished it on the day, easy read. Not as meaty for obvious reasons, still worth it.

Talks about Nank's goal setting with Emma Murray. She challenges him about what he can be the best at amongst all the rucks in the AFL.. Wants to be the best ruckman in the league when the ball hits the ground after a ruck contest he's been in. Second efforts. His mindset is about dominating the 10 seconds at stoppage when the ball hits the ground. That's his goal, be the hardest for those 10 seconds, dominate, then reset and set himself to do it agin at the next stoppage.

The old ruck rover is a great call and it's how he plays. And the goal listed above is how we yobbo's over the fence can tell he's having a Nank impact.

The taker of souls. With the other Taker retiring I think that's the new name for Nank. Taker.
 
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Dyer'ere

Licensed to kazoo
Sep 21, 2004
19,237
7,344
Your best prophesization since Oleg Markov and his amazing moustache Capt.

So, (in pecking order), we have

Nank
Ivan
Criminal Jones (that was pretty professorial too, were it not?)
Mabior Pendleberry
Big Sammy, and
The Funky Mate Colina (you sing that like you're Tone Loc)

6 ruckman on a small list?

we are not so much anticipating a seismic shift,

as about to induce one, by letting off a height density liquid trans-juicer bomb deep under the football world,

I believe.
(Mate may never never play for the club, eZ. Soldo will be up and about before him.)

I did av a lulz, Easy. Trans-juicer rucks.

I've been thinking about this selection since the draft.

In September 2020 RFC was the only club with two capable #1 rucks.

Then bang. A big knee is two years. Sometimes more but if it goes well two years. Ivan Soldo will not be in form again until late 2022. Or early 23. LTI. Not on the list.

So Nank. Rucks get a lot of wear and tear, and even worse, frequent collision injuries. Young Nank, at 24 and 25yo respectively, missed half each of seasons 2019-20.

At RFC we manage injuries and workloads brilliantly. And we might reasonably have expected Nank to become a better version of Clark Keating for the next three years. But Soldo is gone. So our ageing and now perhaps worn Nankervis may have to work much harder in the bulk season and even the early season than we want. I think we'll manage that.

We wind up into a season. We love bumming around the early rounds and grinding wins with our juniors.

I hope we dote on Nank. Let him ruck #2 while the others learn. And if he gets a bruise he rests. One PCL to Nank and we are in a world of *smile*.( Only timing could help that.)

So we should give others a go. CJ's biggest challenge preCovid was his tank. And inexperience. He did just miss a year of football. But he was able to run. Our panel knows exactly how far and how fast. Did we lobby Bellchambers? Nup. We're banking this guy for the early and mid season. (After R4.)

So our rucks are Nank (maybe. Missed the guts of each of the previous two seasons.) CJ. One senior game. Chol. Meh would be flattering.

And now Samson Ryan. You've seen the little tape. He's not an AFL tall or ruck. He looks nothing like one because he's fearless. Just on that we were right to pick him up. Clarke says he's growing. So in two years, when Ivan Soldo is fit and sound and in form, Ryan should be ready to blossom if he ever will. And Ryan can take a catch like a footballer.

None of what I've written above covers the likelihoods of 2021. We'll be coddling Nank. And giving CJ a run.

But I think Noah Balta will ruck. We want to stretch him. He's not a natural footballer in a thousand ways but is a genius in some. This is an Adam Goodes situation. Natural small but not educated in AFL. You get em near the ball and let em find it and you let em learn.

Kouta is the other bloke mentioned by PREnders as Noah-like. Brilliantly uneducated.

Nank, Balta, CJ. They are our rucks for 2021 as I see it ATM.

And Ryan will get a run if he can get the kms. He does things, albeit at a much lower level, that Soldo just does not. Ryan looks like a succession plan to me. And didn't we pounce on him? #41 for a rookie selection ruck. RFC rates Ryan.
 
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spook

Kick the f*ckin' goal
Jun 18, 2007
22,299
27,547
Melbourne
You're all forgetting the great man.

Sampson Sampilands to play ahead of both.

Bringing this over here so as not to derail the backline thread. Jack's OP was prescient in predicting Soldo's long recovery and that we would take a ruck in 2020 if we didn't rate CJ - which we correctly did not. (Everyone makes mistakes, the key is to recognise and rectify.)

So we jumped early on Samson at pick 40 in the 2020 ND. I think it will prove shrewd. He has more going for him than CJ, who we managed to flog off for half a Taranto. That's exceptional business.

Samson will require first team footy this year. I expect he will demand it.
 
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