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U.S Presidential Election

sausage_meat69

Tiger Matchwinner
Oct 28, 2005
930
645
You have to admit, Trump's going down about as spectacularly as the Hindenburg. It's a three month long train crash except 100 times more awkward.
With a bit of luck the blimp hasn’t even caught fire yet. Can’t wait for the investigations into his affairs to start in earnest. I want to see this bad boy crash and burn.
 
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Sintiger

Tiger Legend
Aug 11, 2010
13,354
4,058
Camberwell
Yes, Coleman Hughes is an interesting young fella to listen to. Very intelligently articulate and nuanced in the way he presents his views. Which is very refreshing compared to much of the dogmatic noise surrounding him. I quite like listening to him.

He doesn't deny that there are racial elements and contexts to the challenges blacks in the US face. But he doesn't see race as absolute as BLM activists and supporters see it. To him, it is far more nuanced. He sees class as a much bigger contributing factor in the disparity between rich and poor in the US. And by focusing so heavily on the racial element it harms greatly any chance of building a united movement of solidarity across the working and poor classes. It turns the various tribal groups of poor people against each other fighting for the last scraps on the table. Basically, it plays into the hands of those very few extremely wealthy and/or politically powerful at the top of the tree, that seek to divide and conquer as a tool to hold onto their position.

The wealthy plantation class in the southern states knew this back in the 18th and 19th centuries. They feared greatly that the huge (desperately poor) white underclass would join with the black slaves as a united movement of poor, powerless people and over run their rule. This was one motivating factor for the ruling class developing a strict legal framework of segregation to avoid integration between poor whites and blacks. And in a cruel twist of irony, a lot of this so called post-modern phenomenon of social justice has the same divide and conquer effect.

This is why I view with great suspicion a lot of the liberal corporate class, celebrity class and high ranking bureaucrats going so fanatically down the social justice rabbit hole. There is the pretense that they are doing it for altruistic reasons, or maybe they have deluded themselves into a view that they are. When in actual fact there is a not insignificant narcissistic motivation towards emotional and moral validation as opposed to anything actually practical for the greater good. Essentially it's the old 'look over there' fake pass tactic. They have disproportionate wealth and/or political power that they don't want to relinquish, so are willing to throw one group of poorer, less powerful people under the bus as a scape goat, which keeps in place a system to perpetuate their power.

And don't get me wrong, Trump does the exactly the same thing. He is a man of no principles. He simply spotted a disillusioned group, stoked up the flames of their discontent - told them exactly what they wanted to hear (whether he could achieve any of the rhetoric in actual practical terms or not) as a divide and conquer tactic. But the liberal establishment I spoke of above handed him this disillusionment on a plate. They actually contributed greatly to a climate where a totally unsuitable candidate like Trump could be elected. They are in complete denial or totally blind to it.
That is all one perspective and it is valid to have these views however in my experience they sometimes get translated into an assumption that people who have views that are heavily weighted on social justice are a part of this “liberal corporate class”.
My views on many things have been moulded by my experiences but I have always passionately believed in the equal rights of every human being and felt that we have an individual responsibility to support that. There are many people who feel that way but I think that these views sometimes get diminished by the assumption that everyone who holds them is part of some left wing elite.
There are some who fall into that category but they should not be used as an excuse to diminish the views of others.
The same could be said of any stereotyping of people who hold particular views of course
 
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tigerdell

Hope springs infernal
Mar 29, 2014
1,844
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In agreement with Sin,s post, and a further thought is the habit of boxing people into left or right and then speaking for the other side eg the left cultural elite wine drinkers want to abolish boys and girls toilets...


We all have a plurality of values that means labels are worthless.
I have learnt a lot on this thread.
I also think when we start saying the woke left say... or the right believe... and so start speaking for others not ourselves then we are bound to get it wrong
 
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tigerdell

Hope springs infernal
Mar 29, 2014
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As for woke, its like the schoolyard taunt to the smart kid in class who answers the teacher,s questions.
"Ha ha you are so woke so shut up"

Its a bully boy tactic.
Woke to being aware of historical, privilege, context, systemic disadvantage
Woke to the interconnectedness of it all.
Woke to the hypernuanced nature of society

Aint nuthin wrong with woke, sometimes its just nerdy. And if you,re not interested then let it slide
 
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eZyT

Tiger Legend
Jun 28, 2019
15,445
11,473
As for woke, its like the schoolyard taunt to the smart kid in class who answers the teacher,s questions.
"Ha ha you are so woke so shut up"

Its a bully boy tactic.

To take that further, the woke person getting bullied,

Could poke out there tongue and go

'Well at least im not asleep ..... plus i dont have really stupid ugly nordic tattoes on my face ..... and im not a *smile*'
 

artball

labels are for canned food
Jul 30, 2013
4,050
1,812
With a bit of luck the blimp hasn’t even caught fire yet. Can’t wait for the investigations into his affairs to start in earnest. I want to see this bad boy crash and burn.
the blimp has caught fire, look at his orange face .. he's scrambling for air at the moment, and his two-bit family ..
 

Harry

Tiger Legend
Mar 2, 2003
21,772
5,624
With Biden, normal transmission has resumed. Bush clinton bush obama biden - same dogshit slightly different smell. They all serve the same master. Trump was the bump in the road they didn't see coming. Hillary was the next in line. Left, Right, Democrat, Republican - meh. All a smokescreen to divide and control the masses.
 

Sintiger

Tiger Legend
Aug 11, 2010
13,354
4,058
Camberwell
Alternative view of Trump’s demise.

I’m not sure an article could include any more cliches and lazy labels than this.
Essentially his argument is don’t do what is right because by doing it the crazy conspiracy theories of Trumpsters will be reinforced.
What about the precedent that doing nothing creates? That it’s ok to encourage insurrection without consequence!
 
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jb03

Tiger Legend
Jan 28, 2004
28,818
3,679
Melbourne
With Biden, normal transmission has resumed. Bush clinton bush obama biden - same dogshit slightly different smell. They all serve the same master. Trump was the bump in the road they didn't see coming. Hillary was the next in line. Left, Right, Democrat, Republican - meh. All a smokescreen to divide and control the masses.
Why is that a bad thing? And why was Trump's reign a good thing?
 

Djevv

Tiger Champion
Feb 11, 2005
3,066
226
NT
www.youtube.com
I’m not sure an article could include any more cliches and lazy labels than this.
Essentially his argument is don’t do what is right because by doing it the crazy conspiracy theories of Trumpsters will be reinforced.
What about the precedent that doing nothing creates? That it’s ok to encourage insurrection without consequence!

Well at least you bothered to read it.

The most interesting part was where Trump might end up after jan 20. Online with 75M new subscribers! Dems will say ‘jail’.
 

tigerdell

Hope springs infernal
Mar 29, 2014
1,844
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Well at least you bothered to read it.

The most interesting part was where Trump might end up after jan 20. Online with 75M new subscribers! Dems will say ‘jail’.
I read it too, as I didnt know who the author was. Guessing a sydney shock jock as he is from 2GB.
He identified a couple of possible outcomes, just his opinion as we dont know for sure what will happen.
My biggest problem with the article is how hyperbolic it was, just a couple of ideas couched in outlandish terms.
Its not balanced and as one sided as a match report from the Geelong advertiser.


Judged on Trump,s past business ventures and number of bankruptcies I would hazard a guess that his tv or social media network will fail. No doubt that the existing media chiefs (Murdoch, Bezos/Amazon, twitter guy) would aim to squash him quickly, purely as $ competition.
 
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AngryAnt

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
21,649
7,211
With Biden, normal transmission has resumed. Bush clinton bush obama biden - same dogshit slightly different smell. They all serve the same master. Trump was the bump in the road they didn't see coming. Hillary was the next in line. Left, Right, Democrat, Republican - meh. All a smokescreen to divide and control the masses.

More "they are all the same" nihilism. Policies matter. Character matters. Democracy matters.. Corruption matters.

As Churchill said, "Democracy is the least-worst system of government we have".
 
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Sintiger

Tiger Legend
Aug 11, 2010
13,354
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Well at least you bothered to read it.

The most interesting part was where Trump might end up after jan 20. Online with 75M new subscribers! Dems will say ‘jail’.
Of course I read most things, it’s the way I ascertain what is BS.
You are assuming that all 75 million who voted for Trump would become subscribers but of course that is not true, many voted for him because they are rusted on republican.
The best thing that could happen to the GOP and the US in general is that his group of loonie supporters break away and the Republican Party can go back to being a decent alternative party.
 
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AngryAnt

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
21,649
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That 75 million would have diminished significantly now. As ST says, many of those 75 million will be hardcore republicans who held their noses and voted for Trump because they can't vote Dem.


Trump will still have his base, for a while. He's deplatformed, for now. As soon as the 20th rolls around, he loses his relevance. Litigation and impeachment will kick in. Qanon will move on to new crazy theories and new saviours.

For Trump, it's over.
 
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Giardiasis

Tiger Legend
Apr 20, 2009
6,406
771
Brisbane
More "they are all the same" nihilism. Policies matter. Character matters. Democracy matters.. Corruption matters.

As Churchill said, "Democracy is the least-worst system of government we have".
Nothing to do with nihilism. Yes all those things matter, who disputes that?

Churchill was wrong.
 

mrposhman

Tiger Legend
Oct 6, 2013
9,846
6,107
Of course I read most things, it’s the way I ascertain what is BS.
You are assuming that all 75 million who voted for Trump would become subscribers but of course that is not true, many voted for him because they are rusted on republican.
The best thing that could happen to the GOP and the US in general is that his group of loonie supporters break away and the Republican Party can go back to being a decent alternative party.

I do the same Sin. I read articles from both sides whether they are ridiculously one sided or not. Its how you maintain balance and you can use your own judgement as to what is right.

Hildebrand does bring up some good points, Yes impeachment probably does position the Trump hardliners into an even more dug in position around what they believe, it will only compound that, however the alternative is to allow him to do what he did which sets a very very dangerous precedent in a country that has far too many guns that this behaviour is justified and allowable. That would lead most likely to the next time being bigger and more deadly, so something had to be done.

Personally, I believe a criminal trial that actually uses judicial balance of probabilities rather than party lines for their guilt determination to be the better solution to attempt to punish Trump.
 
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AngryAnt

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
21,649
7,211
Nothing to do with nihilism. Yes all those things matter, who disputes that?

Churchill was wrong.

You and I agree that Churchill was probably wrong, but of all systems of government put into practice in history he's been proved right so far.
 

AngryAnt

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
21,649
7,211
Personally, I believe a criminal trial that actually uses judicial balance of probabilities rather than party lines for their guilt determination to be the better solution to attempt to punish Trump.

I agree. Unless Trump is actually prosecuted for Federal crimes, that can't happen. Biden will be reluctant to do that as it opens the door for his successor to prosecute him and so on. I think the impeachment will fail in the senate and NY state (and maybe other states) will prosecute for state crimes.

It's weak. I don't buy the "time for healing" BS. A failure to prosecute Trump for sedition will enable future Trumps to try the same thing.
 
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